Star Trek Voyager - Page 2

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I'm guessing you are not a fan of the series---at least that's the way your post came across to me---and you expect his impression to change after seeing the whole series. What would you say to someone who has seen the whole series and still likes it the best?

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Might not have been right at midnight, but they've definitely raised prices recently.

Had no idea they had a sale going on. All four seasons of Enterprise were delivered today. Got them for $37.99 each. Pure luck that I just happened to order when I did, but saved over $50.

Just took a look and S1 & S4 are back up to $44.99, 2 & 3 are $56.99. Glad I got in when I did.

Not sure why 2 & 3 are so high. Some of the Voyager seasons are longer, yet they're priced $44.99 & $51.99.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I wouldn't say I'm not a fan of the whole series, just a part of it.

As for you thinking it's the best of the Treks, fine. My biggest problem with the show was that it betrayed its very concept. That was a major factor in how I view it. For seasons 1 to 3 that never bothered me because those seasons were fantastic and didn't feature those huge epic game-changing episodes that ultimately didn't change the game at all.

My other reasons for my view of it changing over time was:

-The Borg became far too overused, losing any sense of suspense.
-The Doctor becoming too sickly-sweet when he was a complete ass at first.
-The endless holodeck / mind altering stories.

The Equinox idea was great, an 'anti-Voyager'. Too bad it was so short-lived because that could have made for a great recurring threat. Oddly enough that crew was more true to Voyager's concept (no reset-button mashing, no pristine ship with fully stacked supplies, weapons and shuttles after every disaster) which Voyager betrayed every time. The only element they kept up with was the whole rations-as-money idea.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I totally agree with your on this point -
-The Borg became far too overused, losing any sense of suspense.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Far too often, the show was a cheat. The tipping point for me may have been in one of Q's appearances, when he offered to send the ship home. Janeway refused, saying that the crew would only get home by hard work and perseverance. And I thought, well, no they won't. They will only get home - more than 70,000 light years - by some bit of good luck or space phenomenon - random chance, essentially. Because all the hard work in the world is going to take 70 years and the crew will be dead.

I found the show to have the weakest writing of any Trek show, even Enterprise's first three years, despite a fine cast who seemed to do their best with what they were given.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I don't at all agree with the criticism regarding the Borg. For one thing, you could make the argument that the Borg are the best antagonists in the Trek universe. So why not use them? They are interesting and with Voyager we get to know them better.

One of my favorite aspects of the show is that they are stranded so far from home and so near the Borg. Of course, the Borg are going to be a big factor in their journey.

Sam, I also tend disagree with your comments above. I don't think hard work and perseverance are mutually exclusive with luck and space phenomena. Refusing Q's offer is a different matter to me. To me it was more about integrity.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Well, I actually just asked a question, but the implication was that I liked it best. This to me is different from saying it is the best. To be sure, it had it's ups and downs during its run and there are some episodes and arcs that I really didn't like, but overall I enjoyed Voyager more than the other Star Trek series. I really liked the concept of them being stranded so far from home and trying to get back.


Would you mind expanding on these comments?


I already commented about the Borg above, but I think it is natural that they were used a lot and that the suspense diminished. That is what would happen if you had regular encounters with any adversary.

Did you want the Doctor's character to stay the same? I'm glad he had some kind of development.

I'm with you on some of the holodeck episodes. My least favorite Next Generation episodes were the ones using the holodeck and I had problems with many of Voyager's holodeck episodes too, but there were some that I thought worked quite well.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

The core idea of two crews being stranded so far from home, having to settle their differences and work together, was a great idea and that's why I loved how it began, and enjoyed the first three seasons so much.
This idea also came with a catch, that ended up becoming totally ignored, which I already explained when I mentioned "Equinox":

(quoting myself)
That was supposed to be as important as the 'two rival crews working together to get home' idea. Neelix's daily presence on the show, cooking real food because they didn't have the resources to use their replicators on a normal basis in addition to his serving as ambassador which would allow access to parts, food and other supplies, was grown out of that no-reset-button idea as well.

Instead, Voyager had a perfect-looking ship every time, inside and out, they always had weapons to fight with, always had shuttles to explore with. If they kept up the idea, Voyager itself should have looked like a patchwork quilt made up of all the various parts and resources Neelix and other one-off visitors to the ship were able to help out with.

A positive aspect of the endless Borg stories was that it allowed the show to use some of that original idea, creating several Starfleet/Borg pieces of tech like the "Delta Flyer".

Borg:

By default, Seven of Nine's presence on the show gave way to many a Borg tale, and by having them be that recurring villain stripped the Borg of everything that made them such a great villain originally: The near-unstoppable force they seemed to be, the fear of being turned into one of them and losing all your independence, their general behavior and look, almost zombie-like but all working together with one mind against you...to see all that mystery, suspense, and genuine fright get reduced to 'oh, great here come the Borg yet again....'

The Borg were great in smaller doses, not overused the way they were. That's part of what made "First Contact" so great. The Borg were perfect in that film.


As for the Doctor, part of his appeal was that he was a jerk. I don't watch "House", but I know enough about it to see that the 'crusty mean doctor' idea can sustain a series. I don't mind that Voyager's doctor evolved from that, I just couldn't stand that he turned into someone who was almost the total opposite of that and it was too much, too sweet. He went from one extreme to the other.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

You bring up some good points. The conflict between the Maquis and the Federation should have ended more organically, and it would have been cool if this top-of-the-line "living starship" had limped home a patchwork ship made up of parts scavenged from hundreds of different planets in the Delta Quadrant and with a ragtag crew that looked more like a Maquis than a Federation crew.

That said, I've watched it through twice and will do so a third time when my season sets arrive. When Paramount first announced Trek season sets, Voyager was supposed to be the first and I was thrilled. They changed their minds, and I ended up not getting around to buying them until now. I know it's not a popular sentiment, but I like Voyager third, behind DS9 (my favorite, bar none) and TOS.

I don't mind the transformation of the Doctor. He was basically this show's Data/Odo. They all just wanted to be real boys.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Watched the pilot last night. Probably my third time, but it's been a while. Stupid Janeway.

You know those commercials, "What if UPS ran the schools/what if a film crew ran weddings?" What if SG-1 crewed Voyager?

O'Neill: "Carter, get over to the array and make it send us home."

Jackson: "Jack! We can't just go home and let the Kazon kill the Ocampa! We caused this!"

O'Neill: "Oh, will you relax. Carter, can you get the self-destruct working over there?"

Carter: "No, sir. I don't even know if I can get us home before the Kazon reinforcements get here!"

O'Neill: "Keep on it. Teal'c? Do we have enough C4 to blow that thing?"

Teal'c: "Indeed."

O'Neill: "Daniel, I need you to plant charges all over the array while me and Teal'c keep these Crayons at bay."

Jackson: "But, what if we get home and the C4 doesn't go off?"

O'Neill: "You're welcome to stay behind in a shuttlecraft to make sure! Now, move it!"

Carter comes through, SG-1 goes home, and the C4 goes off right on schedule.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Greg,

That was great! I would recommend "un-spolerizing" that scene you described. After all, I think everybody reading this thread knows how Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant by now!

BTW, are you a former Stargate SG-1 writer or something? That was almost like a scene from the show!!! (Heck: You *nailed* Teal'c!)

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Thank you very much. Heh. I have to laugh at, "I think everybody reading this thread knows how Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant by now!" Yeah, that was a stupid time to spoilerize.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Only 168 episodes to go! Oy! Ten seasons of SG-1 took about seven months, so I expect this to take at least six.

When I watched before, I had not seen DS9. Now, I've seen it twice, and I consider Sisko to be neck-and-neck with Kirk for Best Captain EVAR. So, I can tell it's going to be a rough ride with Janeway. "We chased you to this asteroid to get back my crewman's lungs, but looks like your friend is using them. It would be morally reprehensible to take them back. In the future, just DON'T MESS WITH US! Okay?" Sheesh. I think Sisko would have checked the lungs to make sure they weren't infected with phage, gotten them back into Neelix if they were okay, and said, "Okay, alien. Looks like *you're* going to be the one immobilized for life in this holochamber!" (Kirk probably would have gotten back the lungs and said, "Screw you, alien!") Of course, the writers stack the deck by having it turn out okay. Alien keeps the lungs, Neelix gets one of Kes's.

I wasn't too thrilled with "we can't violate the prime directive by warning these people they are going to be turned to ashes." I mean, don't give aliens advanced technology and don't tip the scales by giving out arms in an alien civil war, but I don't think going back a half a day and saying, "Hey, I wouldn't do that if I were you!" is anything but the right thing to do.

Not complaining about the show per se, just this particular captain who makes Picard look unPC.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I remember this differently. What happened was, He gives Janeway information to take Voyager home sooner as a token of his appreciation for Her help with His son. When she asks why he is only saving them a few years of travel instead of taking them all the way there, Q responds "What example would I be setting for my son if I did all the work for you?" and disappears. Episode titled "Q2". I actually enjoyed Voyager quite a bit.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

And thus the lung incident was never mentioned again, IIRC.

I can't remember the source, but I remember someone associated with the show saying how horrible that speech by Janeway turned out. Way too preachy or something.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

Nice going, congratulations

Re: Star Trek Voyager

The Cloud. Janeway can't replicate a cup of coffee because energy's at a premium. She flies into what she thinks is a nebula and loses 11% of the energy reserves. Tom and Harry use the holodeck. She flies back in and loses another 9%. Everyone uses the holodeck. Now, maybe there's some nerd explanation--"the holodeck uses a different type of energy that's in abundance"--but the writers should at least say that in the episode.

I probably need to find a more appropriate thread in the TV and HDTV Programming section.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I'm going on 10+ years-old memories here, but I recall that they did in fact say this in episode - something about trying to hook up the holodeck reactors to the main power grid and causing a feedback/explosion/short circuit/whatever due to incompatibilities. Somewhat ludicrous as an excuse, but hey, it's sci-fi. Who knows, maybe the holodeck was HD DVD and the rest of the ship was Blu-ray...


That was my memory too.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I don't think there was an in-universe answer, but the real world one is Jennifer Lien didn't want to go through the ear makeup if she was only going to have a short scene. Therefore, the hair was long so she wouldn't need the makeup.

Re: Star Trek Voyager

I remember that one-- I think that the name of it was "Parturition."

I've been watching Voyager a lot lately--especially this weekend--and am up through season three's Warlord now.  I've really been enjoying it.  I can recognize the oft-repeated weaknesses, but I really liked it when I watched straight through in syndication back in 1999 or 2000, and it's the same this time around.  I get into it to the point where I'm wishing I could be on the ship (which I shouldn't admit, and in spite of all the explosions and incarcerations on alien planets).  DS9 is still far and away my favorite, but I do like this better than the stuffy and PC TNG. 

Anyway, not trying to start a debate.  Just reporting in.  I wish I had kept a record of when I've been watching so I would know how long it takes to get through the whole show.  I have a record of my last run through all of the Stargate franchise as well as my last DS9 run, but I took a big break from Voyager and now I'm not sure when I started back up.  Oh, well.

BTW, Amazon has the S1-S7 bundle at $261.49.  That's six cents more than what I paid for all seven individually during the last big syfy sale.
Edited by Greg_S_H - 9/7/09 at 11:32pm

Greg,

That's great that you're enjoying VOY.  We finished the series a few months ago.  It was a very enjoyable ride.  We didn't want it to end. :)

That's the followup.  The original conversation was in "The Q and the Gray," which I watched last night.  Janeway having his baby was a condition of his sending the ship home, so I don't think you can blame her for turning him down in that instance.  If he (or a more trustworthy Q) had said, "I'll send you and your crew home, no strings attached," I don't think she would have refused the offer because of a determination to do it the hard way.

If a Q had sent them home before Future's End, there would have been no independence for the Doctor and Annika would still be all Borged out in the Delta.  I'm sure plenty of crewmen who died in the remaining years would still be alive, however.

I just finished my journey through seasons 1-7, and thought I'd chime in as well. Overall I enjoyed the run very much, and never could understand how it obtained such a bad reputation among hardcore Trekkers. There's a website that reviews all of the Trek shows, and the reviewer keeps repeating the same complaint in his ubiquitous 2- 2 1/2 star reviews: "Nothing groundbreaking." I'm sorry, but every episode of a long-running TV series CANNOT be groundbreaking, otherwise there would be no ground to stand on. I don't know what some people expect, and I sometimes think their memories of the original Trek series and TNG have turned rose-colored. All I hope for from a Voyager episode is an interesting story and to spend some time in the company of characters that I like. Most of the time I got what I needed. The final episode still left a sour aftertaste, however. Too many things left unsaid, and too much unfinished business.

I can't speak for anyone else, but Voyager started with a fantastic premise-Caretaker is an awesome piece of work, IMHO.  Kate Mulgrew is captivating, Roxann Dawson is a personal favorite...but there was way too much "reset button" type of episodes.  Voyager is stranded away from starbases or repair facilities and the entire ship is in perfect condition nearly 100% of the time.  The show made some half-hearted references to conserving energy and the like but not nearly enough.  This should have been THE serialized show of the Trek universe, with recurring crew members through all seven seasons, major story arcs and that kind of thing. 

Personally, I enjoyed the traitor arc in season 2.  It felt organic and natural to the situation.  I know the producers didn't like it at all, which is why they never did it again.  Characters were completely left in the cold (Chakotay, Kim) to focus on the Doctor, Seven and Janeway.  It became all about stunt casting and effects and battles with no long term consequences.  That's why it kinda limped along, in my eyes. 

On Macrocosm, which I watched last night, Janeway tells Neelix, "Your lungs are filling with fluid."  He corrects her: "Lung."  

I really appreciate that Paramount seems to have finally gotten the title sequence skip right.  Voyager has a terrific title sequence, but I don't need to watch it every time.  So far, every time I've skipped it, it's gone right to the correct spot.  That couldn't be said about the TNG or DS9 boxes.

More importantly, Paramount got the title-skip correct with the Enterprise discs, and thus, spared us from having to listen to that awful opening song in every episode.