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Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

post #1 of 48
3/18/09 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
Lord knows standard DVD has had it's share of non-OAR DVDs in it's lifetime so I'm wondering if Blu-Ray has seen any such crap come out yet or if it's the accepted norm that hi-def will always be OAR?
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post #2 of 48
3/18/09 at 11:16am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Lonesome Dove, although I very much prefer the 16:9 ratio, and looks as though it may have shot with 16:9 in mind, although it aired 4x3 as did everything at the time.
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post #3 of 48
3/18/09 at 11:43am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Alliance's Canadian BD release of Seven is 1.78:1 instead of 2.35:1.
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post #4 of 48
3/18/09 at 11:51am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

The Koch Vision release of Gulliver's Travels (1939) is cropped from 1.33:1 to 1.78:1, and may be the worst BD release of all time.

Max Fleischer's Gulliver's Travels Blu-ray
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post #5 of 48
3/18/09 at 11:54am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

There was a bit of controversy over the 2:1 ratio of Criterion's release of The Last Emperor, thought the change (from the original 2.35:1 ratio) was made at the behest of the cinematographer and with director's endoresement. Whatever you think of their decision to reframe the film (and I tend to agree with those who argue that it was a very poor decision), at least it was not done simply to have the screen filled up. Nevertheless, the Blu-ray presentation of the film is not in its original aspect ratio.
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post #6 of 48
3/18/09 at 1:24pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Gulliver's Travels is the worst example I've heard of. All the reviews of Lonesome Dove seemed to indicate that it was shot with widescreen in mind (there was some speculation that it might have been shot with a theatrical release in mind), so that one doesn't bother me too much.

I do think we'll see more and more 4:3 and wider-than-1.78 material cropped to fill 16:9 screens. It's a shame, but there are an awful lot of people who don't like black bars of any sort.
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post #7 of 48
3/18/09 at 2:31pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

I believe that Lonesome Dove, like many TV productions from the 80s, may have been shot protected with an eye towards a possible European theatrical release. Examples of this type of work from the 80s include the Twin Peaks pilot, The Ewok Adventure and Ewoks: The Battle for Endor.
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post #8 of 48
3/18/09 at 2:42pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

First 7 episodes of South Park season 12 is not OAR, but the second half is.
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post #9 of 48
3/18/09 at 2:47pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd smith
First 7 episodes of South Park season 12 is not OAR, but the second half is.

It's been discussed. The first half was made with the intention to matte it. There's a lot of head space to confirm this.

Season One of Justice League was also shot open matted, but has been put on BD in 1.33:1.

Fortunately there aren't that many examples of wrong aspect ratios yet. Let's hope it continues to stay that way.
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post #10 of 48
3/18/09 at 5:38pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

I was going to mention Justice League (with a caveat) but Brian got there first. Other than that title and The Last Emperor I really don't know of any.
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post #11 of 48
3/18/09 at 6:07pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst
It's been discussed. The first half was made with the intention to matte it. There's a lot of head space to confirm this.

Season One of Justice League was also shot open matted, but has been put on BD in 1.33:1.

Fortunately there aren't that many examples of wrong aspect ratios yet. Let's hope it continues to stay that way.


I have read the discussions and after watching the first half on BR and then the 2nd half, the first half looks obviously cropped and just not "right" IMO. I think 4:3 is OAR for the first seven episodes and the 16/9 version on the BR is a compromise in that respect to my eyes. Just my opinion from watching my set the past week.......
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post #12 of 48
3/18/09 at 7:20pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

I think there are a good number of 1.85 movies that have the matte opened up to 1.76 -- not a huge difference in picture information, but doesn't fit the official OAR.

People will continue to argue about Sleeping Beauty as to what the real OAR is and what parts of the animation cel were supposed to seen or hidden. Personally I believe the current BD is as close to the true intended OAR, , but there are lots of doubts. I still love my LD Boxset and think it's one of the most gorgeous movie sets ever produced though the BD just destroys the LD in picture quality of course.

And then there is poor Gulliver who got the full mutilation.
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post #13 of 48
3/18/09 at 11:16pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McHale
I do think we'll see more and more 4:3 and wider-than-1.78 material cropped to fill 16:9 screens. It's a shame, but there are an awful lot of people who don't like black bars of any sort.

Disney came up with a solution to appease black bar haters. Other studios should seriously consider it.
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post #14 of 48
3/19/09 at 2:10am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Norman
I think there are a good number of 1.85 movies that have the matte opened up to 1.76 -- not a huge difference in picture information, but doesn't fit the official OAR.

But that's been happening so many times it has been regarded as normal, and unless your television can set overscan off you're not likely to see it anyway. The same thing happens with 1.37:1 films that are slightly cut to 1.33:1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Norman
People will continue to argue about Sleeping Beauty as to what the real OAR is and what parts of the animation cel were supposed to seen or hidden. Personally I believe the current BD is as close to the true intended OAR, , but there are lots of doubts. I still love my LD Boxset and think it's one of the most gorgeous movie sets ever produced though the BD just destroys the LD in picture quality of course.

I think it's clear that Sleeping Beauty was supposed to be released in Cinemascope, and was changed into a Technirama production during production. Otherwise I don't know why they would bother animating the entire 2.55:1 frame, if only 2.20:1 of the frame would be seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd smith

I have read the discussions and after watching the first half on BR and then the 2nd half, the first half looks obviously cropped and just not "right" IMO. I think 4:3 is OAR for the first seven episodes and the 16/9 version on the BR is a compromise in that respect to my eyes. Just my opinion from watching my set the past week.......

Well it's supposed to be watchable in either format, of course. I think both versions are equally compromised. Most shots didn't look right in 4:3, and other shots probably wouldn't look exactly right (cramped, perhaps) in 16:9.
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post #15 of 48
3/19/09 at 6:15am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Norman
I think there are a good number of 1.85 movies that have the matte opened up to 1.76 -- not a huge difference in picture information, but doesn't fit the official OAR.

I think you are talking about a few of the Paramount catalogs such as Truman Show and Friday the 13th, right?
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post #16 of 48
3/19/09 at 6:18am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

The blu-ray of "Planet Terror" has been opened up to 1.78:1 from 'scope. As has the Canadian release of "Hostage", the thriller with Bruce Willis.

I ca't honestly belive that anyone considers the 1.85-1.78 thing an issue. Even with zero overscan, the difference is barely noticable, and you'll get far more varation than that from the masking plates in theatre to theatre.
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post #17 of 48
3/19/09 at 6:59am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst




Well it's supposed to be watchable in either format, of course. I think both versions are equally compromised. Most shots didn't look right in 4:3, and other shots probably wouldn't look exactly right (cramped, perhaps) in 16:9.

I respect your opinion, I just dont agree. I watched 5-6 of the first 7 episodes in 4:3 as well and nothing jumped out to me as unusual from all my SP viewing, but in 16:9 it just feels/looks like you are up to close (since they chopped the top and bottoms off). This all goes back to normal though with episode 8 and on for me though and those dont looks "strange" since it is obvious 16:9 is the primary focus.
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post #18 of 48
3/19/09 at 7:50am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Bijelic
The blu-ray of "Planet Terror" has been opened up to 1.78:1 from 'scope.

I thought I read somewhere that this was done at Robert Rodriguez's request.
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post #19 of 48
3/19/09 at 8:10am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Bijelic
The blu-ray of "Planet Terror" has been opened up to 1.78:1 from 'scope. As has the Canadian release of "Hostage", the thriller with Bruce Willis.

I ca't honestly belive that anyone considers the 1.85-1.78 thing an issue. Even with zero overscan, the difference is barely noticable, and you'll get far more varation than that from the masking plates in theatre to theatre.
Very true. Some aperture plates vary between 1.66:1 to 1.9:1. The Truman Show has been mentioned, and although some sources point to 1.85:1 as the correct ratio, the widescreen laserdisc and VHS were in 1.66:1.
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post #20 of 48
3/19/09 at 8:30am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Both The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are at 1.78:1 on BD when they should be at 1.33:1.
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post #21 of 48
3/19/09 at 8:53am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Both The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are at 1.78:1 on BD when they should be at 1.33:1.
Oh man, this should be fun to watch.

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post #22 of 48
3/19/09 at 9:05am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Yeah yeah the debate will likely start again but I took my stance on the matter years ago and i'm sticking to it.

After comparing both versions of The Shining Kubrick's "vanishing point" compositions are somewhat ruined at 1.78:1.
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post #23 of 48
3/19/09 at 9:31am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Both The Shining and Full Metal Jacket are at 1.78:1 on BD when they should be at 1.33:1.

But both films were released theatrically at 1.85 - so the blu-rays can't really be considered wrong.
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post #24 of 48
3/19/09 at 9:35am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Yes, that's true. I just hope that we get what Kubrick wanted for those films on BD someday.
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post #25 of 48
3/19/09 at 10:09am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southpaw
I think you are talking about a few of the Paramount catalogs such as Truman Show and Friday the 13th, right?

I think it's Paramount that does this on many of their titles, but I was too lazy to search for the studio that has routinely done so. Like others said, it's such a small diff, it's almost ridiculous to argue about except for those folks who just like to nitpick technicalities.
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post #26 of 48
3/19/09 at 10:16am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Yes, that's true. I just hope that we get what Kubrick wanted for those films on BD someday.

I don't want to completely derail this thread, but I was always under the impression that Kubrick wanted 1.33:1 for home video because that was aspect ratio of displays at the time. Well, it really isn't any longer.
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post #27 of 48
3/19/09 at 11:14am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Bijelic
The blu-ray of "Planet Terror" has been opened up to 1.78:1 from 'scope. As has the Canadian release of "Hostage", the thriller with Bruce Willis.

I ca't honestly belive that anyone considers the 1.85-1.78 thing an issue. Even with zero overscan, the difference is barely noticable, and you'll get far more varation than that from the masking plates in theatre to theatre.

Planet Terror was filmed for 1.85:1/1.78:1, and like Once Upon A Time In Mexico was shown in theaters in 2.35:1. The first one is the intended ratio.

And by the way, I sampled a bit of The Shining on Blu, and it looks amazing in widescreen. That coupled with the proof in the Archives book, is enough for me to have it shown in widescreen.
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post #28 of 48
3/19/09 at 11:28am

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
I don't want to completely derail this thread, but I was always under the impression that Kubrick wanted 1.33:1 for home video because that was aspect ratio of displays at the time. Well, it really isn't any longer.

If only there was a way we could get Vittorio Storaro to recognize that, we might be getting somewhere! That is part of his rationale for wanting to crop down some of his pictures such as Apocalypse Now and The Last Emperor.
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post #29 of 48
3/19/09 at 12:42pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
Yes, that's true. I just hope that we get what Kubrick wanted for those films on BD someday.

For The Shining at least, we know that Kubrick wanted an aspect ratio of 1.85:1.
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post #30 of 48
3/19/09 at 12:43pm

Re: Have there been any non-OAR blu-rays yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
I don't want to completely derail this thread, but I was always under the impression that Kubrick wanted 1.33:1 for home video because that was aspect ratio of displays at the time. Well, it really isn't any longer.
That's my understanding of the situtation too.
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