HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition - Page 2

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Read their "review" to get an idea what's going on at UD.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Thanks, I read most of that review out of curiousity.

Wow, I didn't realize Disney or the other studios were so aggressively selling Blu ray to the public.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I don't even think they're that aggressive. They just gave a copy of the Blu-Ray for reviews because it already has the film on a dvd. It's easier for Disney, but apparently it's some kind of evil marketing scheme put up.
I really think about leaving that forum. Bashing on Blu-Ray is fine, but when you do it to them it's suddenly not fair. Also every restoration is wrong in their eyes, not to mention the matting of films like Jungle Book and Robin Hood.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

The guy should have devoted the time he took writing that "Blu diatribe" and used it to find someone, with a Blu-ray player, who could write an actual review.

After looking at the DVDBeaver screenshots, the color palette does look a lot better on the BD than on earlier the earlier DVD release; However, in a way the image looks too new and polished. The colors are more opaque and uniform than the earlier DVD. Honest John's hat is a good example. In the earlier DVD the cel paint has a hint of translucency and you can tell that the cels were handpainted. The paint does not look completely uniform. There are hints, throughout the cels in the earlier release, where the paint seems slightly thicker than in other parts. The handpainted nature of the cels comes through clearly, even though the color values are not as accurate as on the BD.

The BD, on the other hand, has none of that handpainted quality. The colors may be more accurate, but the character of the handpainting has been totally erased. The colors are totally uniform and opaque, as only could be done with a computer. I'm not going to claim to be an expert or a know-it-all. I'm just making some observations, based on what I'm seeing in a few screenshots.

The BD, colorwise, looks beautiful, but the handpainted look of the cels is gone. The earlier DVD, colorwise, is nowhere near as nice as the BD, but the handpainted nature of the cels is preserved.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Oh, it's definitely handpainted to my eyes. The subtle paint touches like the feather on Pinocchio's hat, or Geppetto's hair comes across much better. There are also several instances when you can see a slightly different hue to something, just for a frame. It really gives the film the traditional look it's supposed to have, and I'm glad it isn't fixed.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Do you have the actual disc already? I'm only looking at screenshots. The BD shots do look nice. There is detail that doesn't come across in the screenshots of the earlier DVD, like the subtle pinkish hue around Jiminy Cricket's nose area on the shot where he is sticking out of the lock. That actually looks very nice and does give his face a little more dimensionality.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

The BD is hand-painted and looks like the cel-art is projected right in front of you without anything in the way. Literally. Sort of like digitally scanning the cel art rather than filming it. It's really stunning. While it's fair to say that the "film layer" has been removed from view in this restoration, it's not fair to say that the hand-drawn artwork has been removed or obscured. Quite the opposite: you're seeing detail in the hand-drawn artwork that's never before been visible. It's breathtaking on a wide-angle projection screen.

All that's been cleaned is the noise later in the chain like grain and grime. Be careful depending too much on that older DVD image as a point of reference; the color palette is very skewed from the original painted artwork and the frame-by-frame timing errors due to aging might be confused with hand-applied paint variances which they are not.

The artists were purposefully doing their best to keep the painted art consistent one frame to the next especially with color tone and intensity.

What does change frame-by-frame is the "dry brush" contouring to the cat, the surface of the whale, the sea-surf etc. Those are the places where it's paint-related and it's still there.

The blu-ray is the closest thing to the original hand-painted artwork any consumer has ever seen. Release prints which are inevitably several generations removed and include all sort of color-timing differences that may or may not be consistent with the original artwork aren't the best point of reference for hand-drawn/painted animation.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I haven't seen this since I was a kid!!

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

^ Me neither. It is one of the very first movies I remember seeing.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Don't gush too much just yet. Some of the pics over at DVDBeaver.com suggest some very noticeable DVNR atop Pinocchio's eyes in the Stromboli pic:



(Click that pic for full size...)

I'm inclined to think some of the cel color is just a little too smooth, especially on Dishonest John. (Not using the original DVD as a comparison)

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Well, you make some pretty good points; although I'm not sure what you are referring to when you use the term "film layer". That sounds vaguely like a euphemism for grain. If it is then I would like to know why grain removal on old live action films is unacceptable: yet, grain removal on old animation classics is just the opposite. The cels were transferred to film, so why is it suddenly okay to remove the "film layer"?

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Well, the grain removal is a tricky subject. Yes, I'd rather have that they just leave the grain intact. But Lowry (they did the restoration, didn't they?) has found a way to remove grain with keeping the details intact. And it looks way better than, for example Patton or The Longest Day look on Blu-Ray.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I was able to get an advance copy of the Blu-ray disc and it is stunning. Once again the team at Disney has got it right (along with the wizards at Lowry). This just leaps off the screen - and I am so happy that they found the RKO logo. I hear that the head of that group has also restored the SNOW WHITE opening cards as well as those for DUMBO

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I would hesitate to rely on screencaps when it comes to line detail and quality. You need to see the movie in motion to make that judgment.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Especially compressed screencaps.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I picked my copy up this morning and am very impressed with this. I really like the packaging as well.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

We're not allowed to promote external websites from HTF so I won't mention any particulars about the site, but I go into detail on this very subject in my thoughts on this Blu-ray Disc title in my review.

Bottom line of my synopsis (not proving anything, just my opinion naturaly) is that what is the "original art work" is open to debate with animation. With animation, we have the ability to move one step closer past the film negative to the "original" if you will by using the painted art as the reference rather than the photograph of it.

Does that alter the look of the result so that it looks less like film than the release print? Yes. Is it controversial? Yes. Does it reveal with even greater purity the appearance of the hand-painted, hand-drawn artwork? Yes.

Is it possible to both support the preservation of fine film grain structure with live-action motion pictures and at the same time appreciate what Disney has done with the breathtaking images of Pinocchio? Yes.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

All painted image contours are 100% preserved. This is not the case of WB noise-reduction.

Trust those of us who've seen the disc.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I use digital copies primarily to have a portable SD version of the film that I can watch on TVs when I am away from my Blu-Ray player (traveling in the car with kids, visiting the in-laws, etc.). If I have a DVD copy, I do not need that.

Regards,

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Exactly. My daughter was thrilled that HSM 3 came with DC, because she could transfer it to her media player and watch the movie on the go. She's 14, and not as much of fan of classic Disney animation as she used to be (if she's anything like me, she'll come around in her later teens), so no DC of Pinocchio is not a deal breaker.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Just got this in the mail, and immediately played it on my 123" CRT projection system. I don't know what the colors, etc. should look like, but I have to say this is the most gorgeous rendition of this all-time classic (I think it's the greatest of the Disney animated films) I've ever seen. Detail, color purity...it's all there. Just magnificent.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Robert,

A projection system with real black level... sigh...

do you have a 9" CRT? Just curious what type of system you have given the 123" screen size. Do you drive the CRT at 1080p60 or at 1080i60 with the analog output direct from the BD player?

Glad you think the disc looks so beautiful. Seeing this I can rest easy with knowing how Disney will handle their animated library.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

David,

I have an 8" projector (NEC XG135LC). I play BDs at 1080i60, using the Moome HDMI card (which greatly relieved one of my worries about how I could best take advantage of HD with a CRT), so it's HDMI all the way into the projector. And yes, blacks are deep....so deep you can't see your hand (or the screen) in front of your face when a scene fades to black.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Keith: it's not DNR; what you're seeing is the fact that the top of all the eyes in this movie have a sort of "eyeliner" paint effect that was intended to give depth and shading to their eyes. It just doesn't show up well in that screencap. That "eyeliner" effect also tends to (intentionally) obscure or otherwise undelineate the tops of everyone's eyes. It's apparent throughout the movie and looks very natural and clever.

A few other things:

1.) There's possibly a word missing from the soundtrack! In "Give a Little Whistle," the old dvd's soundtrack goes like this:

Jiminy: "And when your whistle's weak, yell!"

Pinocchio: "Jiminy Cricket?"

Jiminy: "Right!"

Jiminy's callback "Right!" is missing on the BluRay. The BR has two audio channels: one a modern "stereo" remix and one supposedly the original mono. I checked: the word is missing from both. The word exists on the old dvd, and also the original vhs tape, (from circa 1985). I think the exclusion or inclusion of that word depends on whatever source material they used to remaster this song. The word doesn't exist on old Disneyland records soundtracks. I've only ever heard it uttered on older home video versions of the film. (Not sure if it's on the more recent CD soundtrack recordings, but I'll check later). I'll leave it to the experts to tell us whether the word is even [i]supposed[/i/] to really be in the movie: that is, whether it existed in the original film prints or not.

2.) There's some notable tape hiss during the opening credit score, better known as "When You Wish Upon A Star." I notice that they must have jacked up the chorus part, which had been horribly obscured and buried under other noise in all other home video releases thus far. Now, you can hear the chorus very well, but their first line which is "Ahhhhhhhh..." now sounds like "Ahhhhhhh" combined with "SSSSSSSSSSSSsssss!!!!" It's not as bad as I'm making it sound, but there it is. The hiss probably came about because they turned the volume up on the chorus (so that we can finally hear them) and the hiss was natural to that track. Probably nothing the audio engineers could do about it. The better part is that later in the song when they come in with "Fate is kind..." you can actually understand, probably for the first time in history, what they are saying! Couldn't hear any other audio defects throughout the rest of the movie (except for the missing "Right!")

3.) Didn't notice and DNR or EE issues throughout the movie. None whatsoever.

4.) The only weirdness in terms of color that I noticed is that when the Blue Fairy drops by, the front of Pinocchio's pants turn pink. However, the inseam of his pants is still red. The pinkness didn't exist in the old dvds. I think it's supposed to be because there's a big glare around her and that whites out the colors in the room?? The pants drop back to red when she's gone. So...uh...??

5.) The "Disneybars" were just clumsy and stupid. One big problem with them is that they're of a much sharper image than the actual film. And when the camera moves it looks like you're looking through a window. It's just weird and unnecessary. Don't turn it on.

6.) As for people pre-complaining about bad color saturation, etc.---you are all crazy! Watch the movie! It looks perfect! No, I do not know what exact colors you should be seeing. I was not in a theater in 1940 nor have I an original print of the film. But it looks exactly the way it should. Vague though that may sound, I can't be any clearer than that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the movie looks the way I always thought it should look. Now, you compare THIS to the original dvd and it's night and day. The old dvd was a total crapfest. It was unwatchable even when it came out. Colors were totally washed out, the sound was bad, focus was bad, edging was impossible. It looked like they transferred it from the 1980s video master. It was BAD. The BluRay is GOOD. Beyond good.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I thought the PQ on this was amazing. Period. No room for discussion - perfection.

I watched it with the Disneyview "bars" turned on.

Most of the time they were unobtrusive, but there were times when there was fast cutting (the climax of the Pleasure Island scene" and the bars changed very quickly too - then they became noticeable and distracting.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I picked up the disc yesterday and will enjoy it this weekend!

Thought I'd mention something a little off-topic. I'm obviously not a huge Disney fan. But I have the TV on and tuned to The View which is broadcasting from the Walt Disney Studios in Burbank and ABC is owned by The Walt Disney company as you know. Whoopie Goldberg did a segment where she got access to the Disney Archives and they have in there all the costumes and props from all the history of Disney. They showed the prop book used for filming the titles to Sleeping Beauty with the original art inside. The costume the child actor wore for doing the reference work for Pinnochio was shown. The model of the Nautilus was in there too. It was very cool to see. Like the Lucas archives at ILM.

The Chairman was also on and talked about D23, a new quarterly fan magazine that looks pretty slick! But this is stuff for a Disney thread.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Just an amazing release. Last night, I sampled the movie, watched the entire documentary, and watched about half of the video commentary. It was all great.

I think the disney bars are an amusing curiousity. They're fun to play with for a while, but then they get old. I don't object to their presence - as long as they are optional and the disc is set to default to "no disney bars", as is the case here.

But the real star is the film itself - and how good it looks. Looking forward to Snow White in the fall.

-R

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

Amazon deal on Pinocchio & Sleeping Beauty BDs!

A poster over at SlickDeals is reporting that if you buy BOTH the Blu-ray releases of Pinocchio & Sleeping Beauty @ amazon.com, they'll take $10 off EACH TITLE...dropping the total price by $20!

Here's a capture of his order page:

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

I'll describe what I think I can see, using the pictures of Stromboli patting Pinocchio's head from the DVDBeaver site.

Stromboli is standing between a dark space (the theater) and a light space (the stage).

In the original DVD image, Stromboli's blouse and pants reflect this, with the color lightest on his right arm patting Pinocchio, and darkest on his left side, the side to the dark "audience."

There is some definite contrast in the handpainted color, reflecting natural light and lack of light.

The new DVD and BD show none of this contrast. The colors have been made uniform, perhaps because they were repainted digitally.

Although I have bought the BD and look forward to watching it, I do wish the people at Disney would simply restore the negative and then scan it, rather than redoing everything in the digital domain.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Pinocchio: 70th Anniversary Platinum Edition

That deal's not coming up for me. Judging from the SlickDeals thread, it seems pretty random as to who gets it.