Canon 40D or XSi (450D) - Page 4

Here's my philosophy on stuff like that:

Gear, in general, is a commodity.  Pro gear however is usually worth the price premium.  If unsure if one of two pieces of consumer gear are better, go for the cheap one and use it until it breaks.  If the pro gear is not astronomical in price (say, with about a 50% price premium), save up for that and treat it well.  Don't listen to the experts, they are usually people with more time than sense, money than sense, or trying to sell you something.  Put value in what your heart tells you and what your experiences have been.  Don't get caught up in hype.

Some of you will think this is ridiculous coming from me, with my well known gear lust and lesser known Apple, Canon, Sony and especially Nikon biases.  All I can say is each item I have purchased, with the possible exception of the iPad, was done so with some calculation and review readership (and saved up for individually) but without being all Revenge of the Nerds like in spec and review tomfoolery...

Yeah, you should probably worry more about dust inside your camera body than in the lens.  I'm sure it's nowhere near bad enough to worry about in the lens or the lens wouldn't be so popular now.  It's not like you plan to be living in a dust bowl or something, right?   If you're a working PJ regularly in the kind of situation that could present a problem, then that might be different.

RE: shooting w/ flash, if you mean shooting w/ direct flash, I try to avoid that as much as possible as it doesn't look good.  And in a convention center type situation, you're not gonna be bouncing the flash -- and using a bounce-card or whatever diffuser (w/out ceiling/wall bounce) still doesn't look that good, IMHO.  And >$600 seems like a lot to spend on the quality glass you'd probably be getting in that 15-85mm IS -- it's not like you're getting a 35mm/FF lens either for an eventual FF upgrade.

If it won't take you too long, then save some more and get the real thing instead so you don't regret it later.   It's not like you don't already have a widezoom to get by right now afterall.  I kinda doubt the PQ of the 15-85mm IS will be a big improvement over your current kit widezoom though I could be wrong.  How much more is the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS anyway?  $400-500 more?

RE: Sigma lenses, they can be rather hit-and-miss although their telezooms are generally very good.  They don't seem to have great QC to yield consistently good glass from copy to copy, particularly for the widezooms.  Near as I can tell, Nikon is generally best in that regard for consistently reliable quality, but you're not about to use a Nikon lens on your Canon body.

_Man_

My Sigma 18-50mm zoom had a back focus problem and I had to send it in twice to be calibrated. It's fine now, but I still have lingering doubts about it. It's been enough to pretty much swear off third party lenses, though now I check the focusing accuracy on any lens I get.

What I've been reading of the Tamron and Sigma lenses does make me raise my eyebrow, and it appears to be a communication thing between those lenses and the Canon bodies.

Overall, typical average pricing these days:

Canon EF-S 15-85 F3.5-5.6 IS $620 new (can't really find them used)

Canon EF-S 17-55 F2.8 IS $900-$950 used, $1070 new

Canon EF 24-105 F4 IS $850 used

Sometimes, I'll tilt my external flash to lessen the intensity, even with a diffuser cup on it.  Results are hit-or-miss, I guess.

If you can get the 17-55 f/2.8 IS used at those prices, in like new condition, I'd suggest going that route.  There's not a whole lot to gain by getting a brand new Canon lens anyway (in part because the warranty is just 1 year) as long as you can test out the used lens to ensure perfect operation and are getting it from a reliable seller.  Of course, you have to feel comfortable w/ that idea, etc. though.  If not, then just spend the extra bit for a new lens -- you don't want buyer's remorse and constantly 2nd guess yourself about the lens over that.

That's basically what I did for my Nikon 17-55 f/2.8.  I bought it in near mint condition locally off eBay for something like a net price of $850 (after using a Bing cashback deal).  I would've been willing to pay somewhat more if it came w/ IS (and didn't have a known issue w/ the AF at/near infinity), but finally decided to go for it at around that price after resigning on the idea that I might ever go FF -- I still might someday, but I won't worry about that for a widezoom right now.  FWIW, the seller was moving upto FF, so needed to sell the lens.

Before getting that lens, I was happily using a 35mm f/2 prime much of the time and swapping to my old 18-70mm only on occasion when I needed the wide end -- the Nikon 18-70mm is a pretty good widezoom in its own right, but I just was never that happy w/ it.  I did also try a used, excellent condition Sigma 20mm f/1.8 for something better at the wide end, but it just didn't quite suit me -- it's quite big-and-hefty (and slow to AF) despite being a fixed focal length prime and just isn't as sharp or contrasty as I'd like at/near wide open aperture.  Now, I usually just stick w/ the 17-55 f/2.8 and occasionally swap to one of my other lenses as I find need.

_Man_

My head says to get the 17-55mm since it should be more useful in the long run, but my pocketbook says to get the 15-85mm since it's 2/3 the cost of the other choice.  Hopefully I'll get lucky on a 17-55mm tomorrow, otherwise, I may end up just renting it for Heroes Con for the first weekend in June.

Patrick,

If you are shooting people indoors on an aps-c sized Image Sensor, 85mm is probably the farthest into the telephoto range that you will practically use. I do a good deal of event photography, and I have a Tamron 18mm to 200mm (for portrait work I use a Canon 50mm f1.2) that I use as a walk around when enlargements are not going to be an issue (though I have done some nice enlargements from that lens) I find that I use the 18mm to around 24mm end of the lens FAR more than the telephoto end. If you are using a external flash say a Canon speedlite 430EX, I highly recommend getting one of these if you don't already have one...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/435136-REG/Gary_Fong_LS2_C1_C1_Lightsphere_II_Inverted.html

You'll be amazed at the improvement in quality of the light coming from your flash. Here are a few examples of that flash diffuser in action.

All of those were shot with the Tamron.

Just my two cents.

Doug

I've never bit on the Fong adapters (based on price mostly!), but I know others who swear by them.  I use the Honl system, I find it very adaptable in many situations.  I used to use a Sto-fen on all my flash shots and those are cheap and better than bare flash IMO, but I think the Honl's beat it by a mile.

Nice flash modifiers suggestions.  I think I just have a sto-fen-type of flash cap for the time being, as I haven't quite delved into the flash control arena, but as long as I can find some economical (in size and price) solutions, I'll consider them. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun 

Nice flash modifiers suggestions.  I think I just have a sto-fen-type of flash cap for the time being, as I haven't quite delved into the flash control arena, but as long as I can find some economical (in size and price) solutions, I'll consider them. 

Fong has a new version of that particular diffuser that folds down flat (kind of like a camping cup). The thing about a diffuser is that you want as much surface area as possible. The more surface area the softer the light. Also Fong's diffuser can be pointed up to bounce off the ceiling, while at the same time using the sides of the diffuser as fill light or even a catch light in the eyes. Also he makes an orange cap for it that corrects the flash color temp to tungsten. Great for shooting in available light.

Of course there are other good diffusers out there, but I'm particularly sold on this one. Frankly I never shoot with out it. Even when my strobe is off the camera on a remote trigger, that diffuser is on it.

Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun 

Nice flash modifiers suggestions.  I think I just have a sto-fen-type of flash cap for the time being, as I haven't quite delved into the flash control arena, but as long as I can find some economical (in size and price) solutions, I'll consider them. 

$25 and you are done:

http://www.amazon.com/HonlPhoto-Speed-Strap-Mount-Flashes/dp/B000XB9GV0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1274116067&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/HonlPhoto-Speed-Barndoor-Bounce-Flashes/dp/B000XB9GUG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1274116067&sr=8-7

Of course, you can add on until you get crazy:

http://www.amazon.com/HONL-GOBO-HONL-GRID4-HONL-GRID8-HONL-SNOOT5-HONL-SNOOT8/dp/B00270VQTK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1274116207&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/HONL-GOBO-HONL-GRID4-HONL-GRID8-HONL-SNOOT5-HONL-SNOOT8/dp/B002B8TK82/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1274116207&sr=1-9

See, when I go take photos, I take thousands upon thousands at my usual few yearly conventions, so I try not to use my flash unless it's necessary for the shots, so going from the small point-n-shoots to dSLR in the convention settings, I'm trying to make that mental leap of dealing with all the 'stuff' (plus carrying lots of rechargeable AA batteries for the flash unit) and also getting the shot with minimal fuss, quickness, and good quality/exposure so I don't hold up my victims, err, subjects.  I used to call it guerilla photography, so it should be an interesting experience to do it with a dSLR after a decade of using the quickie p-n-s digital cameras.

Yes, I suspect you are going to get a much different reaction from your, er, targets. 

Scenario #1:  Quiet, smiling, vaguely asian man armed with a PnS?  Harmless!  =) 

Scenario #2:  Dude with his head buried behind a DSLR and big honkin flash unit?  DANGER DANGER!  Is this a fanboi with too much cash or someone who is potentially going to use these shots professionally? 

Well, I have been told that you attend car shows, and go about taking photos of the car models, they tend to take your photo requests more seriously if you have serious photo gear with you. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun 

Well, I have been told that you attend car shows, and go about taking photos of the car models, they tend to take your photo requests more seriously if you have serious photo gear with you. 

Its very true. You show up with an SLR, big ole lens, with a tulip shade. A speedlite with a diffuser, and people take you seriously. Show up with all that and a pretty model, and they ask you to come over and shoot their car!

Doug

Hey now!

Pulled the trigger on the 17-55 f2.8 lens tonight, so hopefully I'll get it sometime next week to try it out.

Congrats on the new purchase, Pat!

Hope that lens works out great for yah.

RE: those other diffusers, I had previously considered getting Gary Fong's lightsphere some time ago as well.  I may consider it again.  Not too crazy about the Honl from what I can see in those links -- looks too troublesome to use.  If I use a diffuser, I'd want it to be very  quick-and-easy to attach/remove reliably (and store).  Depending on the situation, I sometimes also try shooting w/ the flash way off the camera whether wirelessly or w/ sync cord (and likely on my collapseable Newton flash bracket in that case).

But ultimately, I'd prefer to not use flash, if I can avoid it.

_Man_

Is there anything in the world less troublesome than Velcro????  It comes apart in a flash (heh!)

Congrats on the new lens and good luck with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

Is there anything in the world less troublesome than Velcro????  It comes apart in a flash (heh!)

The trouble I'm thinking is not that the velcro can be taken apart (or stuck together) quickly, but whether it will hold the (reflecting) diffuser reliably in place, especially after many uses, as I move around, shooting, etc. somewhere other than a big empty space (w/ no potential obstacles nor much of anything else to shoot ).

Presumably, the Gary Fong lightsphere will stay reliably in place much like a sto-fen omnibounce or similar type diffusers.

Also, I'd think the reflecting-type diffuser would require more repositioning/readjusting/reattaching as one switches from landscape to portrait mode (or whatever other angles one might choose to shoot from).  Although that *might* actually present moderately more useful options for directing the flash light, that will probably also present more problems in practice too.

_Man_
 

I've become sort of a traditionalist when it comes to flash diffusers. On an older Sunpak strobe I use a PVC ID card blank that has a bit of velcro on it (the Sunpak has velcro left over from using a Lumiquest bouncer). When I use a Canon 580 EX II, I use the pull out white plastic "catchlight" reflector. There are limitations to this as it's largely dependent on having ceilings to bounce off and the white card is mostly to throw a bit of the light forward. Shooting in portrait is usually not as easy. But you can't beat it for convenience and after using the Omni Bounce and Lumiquest products I prefer the look of the card and ceiling bounce; the blank white card is also super cheap to replace if lost or damaged. The Honl looks interesting as something a little more "upscale" than the DIY approach, but it would still pain me if I lost it.

I'm really wondering if I'll be able to go without using a flash at conventions with this faster lens because it would alleviate my having to walk around with tons of AA batteries in my bag and pockets since I only get about 225-250 flashes per set of 4 AA batteries (rechargeable).  I'll have to see if just using the sto-fen caps, and tilt yields a good enough amount of light without washing out the subject in the photo.  I think it did, but I don't have as much experience with a flash setup to know for sure, yet.

If low light is really the concern then you should just go ahead and get a Nikon D3s.  We await your review!

As far as rechargables go, Eneloop all the way.  16 of those guys gets ya over 2k flash pops...

As far as the velcro thing, all I can say is that I've taken the setup in driving wind with no issues.  And yet a simple tug in the right direction will remove it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun 

I'm really wondering if I'll be able to go without using a flash at conventions with this faster lens because it would alleviate my having to walk around with tons of AA batteries in my bag and pockets since I only get about 225-250 flashes per set of 4 AA batteries (rechargeable).  I'll have to see if just using the sto-fen caps, and tilt yields a good enough amount of light without washing out the subject in the photo.  I think it did, but I don't have as much experience with a flash setup to know for sure, yet.

I regularly shoot 300 to 500 shots per session with out seeing any fading of my rechargeable batteries. I use regular Energizer rechargeable batteries in my 430 EX. Make sure when you are buying rechargeables, that they are at least 2500 mAh rated. They will last longer and have faster cycle times on the flash.

Whenever I shoot in a practical location, I expose for the existing light, the flash is used just for fill and eye catch light. This means shooting at a higher ISO, around 800. This is one reason I use the Gary Fong diffuser, because of its ability to correct the flash to tungsten color temp.

Another thing to remember about shooting with the lens wide open, you are going to have VERY shallow depth of field. Focus is hyper critical in these situations. Also most lenses are not at their sharpest below about F4. So you may find that you have sharper, more pleasing images if you aren't shooting wide open.

Doug

Do you just slap on the Fong diffuser and point the flash straight up?

Just got the lens's UPS tracking number...

I need to do an inventory of all my AA rechargeables, I have all sorts of them over the last decade of using my other digital cameras, and they weighed a ton, but I never wanted to be without batteries as long as I was snapping photos.  I retired a bunch of the old AAs, but I think I probably have another 4-6 4-sets of AAs that was rated 2500mah or higher.  I may pick up another 2-3 sets of 4 AAs just in case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Sun 

Do you just slap on the Fong diffuser and point the flash straight up?

 

Just got the lens's UPS tracking number...

 

I need to do an inventory of all my AA rechargeables, I have all sorts of them over the last decade of using my other digital cameras, and they weighed a ton, but I never wanted to be without batteries as long as I was snapping photos.  I retired a bunch of the old AAs, but I think I probably have another 4-6 4-sets of AAs that was rated 2500mah or higher.  I may pick up another 2-3 sets of 4 AAs just in case.

The Fong diffuser slips over the top of the flash. If your flash will rotate sideways, then you can turn it that way, and allow the flash to swing back and forth to shoot either verticals or horizontals, all the while the flash is pointed up.

This will give you an idea of how it works...

Here is another good demo of the system.

And my new lens finally showed up last night, the UPS guy actually showed up around 7 p.m., and I was worried I wouldn't be home to sign for it during the day, and then I'd have to go pick it up, but I guess UPS guy was late on deliveries, so it worked out for me.

Quick impressions: it's heavy, much more heavy than the kit lens (18-55mm), but it also feels more substantial too. Just took some quick shots inside my living room (so-so lighting), trying to get a feel of how much distance from the subject for full-body (wide angle) shots, and was happy to see it was about 5-6 feet, so that'll work. It's fast (both in AF and shutter speed, at least 2-3 stops over my kit lens), and then pushing the ISO up to 1600, it's even faster, will have to check on graininess later. I still hope to shoot at 200 to 400 ISO, though. 

I have some killer shots of my red Swingline staple on my office desk with bokeh while testing the higher shutter speeds while pushing the ISO up in tandem.  Haha.

I think I wore out my shutter/aperture wheel over the weekend (perhaps just over 10,000 shutter actuations).  At some point, the wheel becomes non-responsive, and I end up having to take off the lens and the batteries, wait a few seconds, and then put both back onto the camera body for the wheel to work again.  Is this something that will get worse with time, and even if I send it in for repair, I guess no guarantees it won't re-occur again after it going through the repair process?

I would think that if Canon replaces the defective part(s), it should perform like new. Canon Service will give you a written repair estimate, so it may be worthwhile to send it in for them to assess the problem.

I have only used Canon Service once (for a recall on a EF 70-300mm IS lens I used to own), and they had a very quick turnaround for the repair.

I thought I was going to be stuck shooting at 1/100 speed for the last day of the convention.   Wouldn't that be fun.  At least it started malfunctioning at the very end of the day, so it wasn't as problematic as it could have been.  I'll check with Canon and see if it's still under warranty (bought it in August of last year I think, need to find my emails/receipts).

I think I should have trusted my camera with the "Auto White Balance" mode because I tried using a custom WB while inside the big convention center with the lighting that was sort of on the orange-ish side, so I think the white balance is off on many of my photos I took, but I found that I would fix them by applying a cooling filter in Photoshop CS3, but I'm feeling a bit on the lazy side to process a bunch of photos with the orange-ish hue to them.

This is a shot of the more blu-ish white balance I initially got when I snapped an early photo inside, the EXIF says it was manually set (but I forgot which manual WB setting):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/4686334037/in/set-72157624117337245/

But then I set the custom white balance (just pointed at a white table cloth to set it), and to my eye, it reflected more of the white balance I was seeing inside the room:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/4686967646/in/set-72157624117337245/

so that's why I ended up using the custom white balance.  But I wonder if I should have went with auto WB.

Here's a collection of the photos I took with the new lens, I still need a lot of practice in getting good shots on-the-fly, as I'd get even more lazy in correcting for exposure with different light conditions as I moved around the room, and not paying attention to the viewfinder information.  But it was still good practice nonetheless.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/collections/72157624123981151/

Just about everything was taken with the XSI and 17-55mm lens, except for some photos from the Dead Dog party, the Twenty-Two art exhibit, and maybe some artwork swag/loot photos.