Alien trilogy coming to blu-ray?!... - Page 12

For Alien 3, the work to redo the video would probably be massive due to all the scattered pieces of film they would have to scan again (as no print exist for the SE).

I think for AR, there's also the problem of the resolution of the added SFX, which could mean even more money to invest. I'm sure Mr de Lauzirika knows the ins and outs of this, and that the reason those two didn't get a total upgrade is money and time related. (remember, with majors, you don't get the greenlight, and when you get it, you are already behind schedule).

[quote]People complaining (other than Jeunet) are just thinking in absolutes. My guess is that if money was spent to remaster AR, it wouldn't change a thing (apart probably for the director), and it would still be  sitting on the shelf, never watched ever again, by 97% of the people who bought this set. [/quote]

This is a pretty self-centered view.  Obviously, most people view it as the least of the films, but it does get decent rewatch value by most fans.  I think Fox was too cheap on this set.  The quality should've been consistent, or at least each film should've received a new scan.  I'm glad about the amount of work that went into the set, including the fixing of the audio on Alien 3, but the bean counters at Fox I think deserve to be criticized for refusing to give it a bit more budget to make sure the set was perfect and not flawed like it is with Alien 3 and AR's picture quality.  All the films should have been preserved in archival quality.  I'm not really convinced they wouldn't have made their money back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Syxx 

[quote]People complaining (other than Jeunet) are just thinking in absolutes. My guess is that if money was spent to remaster AR, it wouldn't change a thing (apart probably for the director), and it would still be  sitting on the shelf, never watched ever again, by 97% of the people who bought this set. [/quote]

 

This is a pretty self-centered view.  Obviously, most people view it as the least of the films, but it does get decent rewatch value by most fans.  I think Fox was too cheap on this set.  The quality should've been consistent, or at least each film should've received a new scan.  I'm glad about the amount of work that went into the set, including the fixing of the audio on Alien 3, but the bean counters at Fox I think deserve to be criticized for refusing to give it a bit more budget to make sure the set was perfect and not flawed like it is with Alien 3 and AR's picture quality.  All the films should have been preserved in archival quality.  I'm not really convinced they wouldn't have made their money back.

I agree with your view, they should have spent the money on Alien 3 and Resurrection and made them as good as they could be, i would not have liked to have seen Jeunet de-graining Alien Resurrection though, the guy seems to be re-visiting his past works and actually spoiling the original look because he thinks grain is evil.

I took some screencaps of Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Resurrection for my site, since we are talking about Alien Resurrection i'll put a link to the caps here.

http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/2010/11/24/blu-ray-screencaps-alien-resurrection/

Now tell me that Jeunet is right, tell me the quality is only as good as a dvd edition, i think not, the quality is better than dvd, much better when viewed on a large screen but obviously it could be better still, i firmly believe Alien Resurrection could have been the best looking film in the anthology release if they had treated it to a new master, i also believe Alien 3 is the worst looking and has had degraining and filtering applied to the original master they are using, it's easy to see on a large projection system and when viewing on a computer but not every scene seems to have had it applied and i felt the workprint scenes seemed slightly better to my eyes, maybe i'm seeing things although i doubt it.

He probalby does have a point.  Some suspect the film's master on the set pre-dates the Quadrilogy, which is kind of sad.  It does look pretty soft imo.  The logic is probalby that it doesn't need one because it's a newer film, but that's just silly.  If you don't scan something at the right resolution, it will not have that detail, regardless of age.

I also think the intent of the director's comments probalby didn't come across great in translation.  I would think he would have reason to be annoyed though, the film doesn't have the right color corrections to match the film prints due to them not wanting to spend the budget on that (since I guess it would be more involved than a regular film due to the process used), which is a pretty big part of "director's intent."

I think I saw somebody asking a while back what was censored from the screen tests. I think anyone who has watched the one with Ripley and Dallas can tell where the terrible and unnatural dialogue is taking the situation... Yes, Sigourney taking her top off. Not sure why this would be necessary for a screen test, but far be it for me to judge (or complain about seeing more of Sigourney Weaver). An uncensored version of the screen test (from the Alien Saga DVD) can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHo8-J9jVu8

The reason why this test fades to black on the Anthology version is probably because these "new" screen tests are actually different takes, done from different angles, with different dialogue. I think the angle included on the Anthology would have been a lot more, ahem, revealing, and potentially embarrassing for Weaver, than the one on the Alien Saga DVD, so it was censored.

Anyways...

This set is utterly fantastic and the Alien 3 doc is amazing, and well worth the wait, but it still left me with some questions! Who made the decision to change the "first victim" from an ox to a dog? I *much* preferred the former, as seen in the wonderful new "Special Edition" version, and so it seems it would have been against Fincher's wishes to change it to a dog... But Jon Landau says it was Fincher's idea to change it to a dog in the doc. (Not sure I trust Landau's memory, to be honest.)

Another thing was the "Double Y Chromosome" bit of pseudo-science. I'd have liked the doc to question where this came from, but I had to look it up: Apparently it's complete bunk based on some very dodgy science and exaggerated media reports from the 60s. More conclusive research done since then has shown that there are no increased hostility in men with two Y chromosomes (yes, it's a real condition affecting 1 in 1000 males) and really the filmmakers should have known better than to try and demonise people with a real condition. Or as the thing I read put it: "They should be ashamed of themselves."

Still, the new cut of the film is wonderful! I would actually consider myself a fan of Alien 3 now, something I did not before!

[quote]

Another thing was the "Double Y Chromosome" bit of pseudo-science. I'd have liked the doc to question where this came from, but I had to look it up: Apparently it's complete bunk based on some very dodgy science and exaggerated media reports from the 60s. More conclusive research done since then has shown that there are no increased hostility in men with two Y chromosomes (yes, it's a real condition affecting 1 in 1000 males) and really the filmmakers should have known better than to try and demonise people with a real condition. Or as the thing I read put it: "They should be ashamed of themselves."[/quote]

Wow, seriously?  How ridiculously PC can you get?  That's just too much.  No one who watches this film would demonize the hand full of people who have a double y chromosome.  I'm fine with some political correctness, but not when it interferes with freedom of speech and art.  Also this instance is completely harmless.  First, it's impossible to know who has it.  Secondly, its so uncommon that it really wouldn't matter regardless.  I will also say I liked this part of the plot.  It's interesting, and I think it also appeared in Cat O' Nine Tails.  It doesn't have to be completely accurate either.  It's called science fiction.  Emphasis on the fiction part.  A grain of truth is enough I think, and my suspension of disbelieve is suspended enough to believe that for context of this film.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Syxx 

[quote]

Another thing was the "Double Y Chromosome" bit of pseudo-science. I'd have liked the doc to question where this came from, but I had to look it up: Apparently it's complete bunk based on some very dodgy science and exaggerated media reports from the 60s. More conclusive research done since then has shown that there are no increased hostility in men with two Y chromosomes (yes, it's a real condition affecting 1 in 1000 males) and really the filmmakers should have known better than to try and demonise people with a real condition. Or as the thing I read put it: "They should be ashamed of themselves."[/quote]

 

Wow, seriously?  How ridiculously PC can you get?  That's just too much.  No one who watches this film would demonize the hand full of people who have a double y chromosome.  I'm fine with some political correctness, but not when it interferes with freedom of speech and art.  Also this instance is completely harmless.  First, it's impossible to know who has it.  Secondly, its so uncommon that it really wouldn't matter regardless.  I will also say I liked this part of the plot.  It's interesting, and I think it also appeared in Cat O' Nine Tails.  It doesn't have to be completely accurate either.  It's called science fiction.  Emphasis on the fiction part.  A grain of truth is enough I think, and my suspension of disbelieve is suspended enough to believe that for context of this film.

Plus, it's a sci-fi movie.  Who's to say that, in the future of the Alien movies, when genetic manipulation has become more common, that people who are genetically engineered and end up with double y chromosomes because of some problem in the process don't have some behavioral defect as a result of that problem?
 

Yes, I do take your point that people are not likely to be discriminated against because of having 'two Y Chromosomes'. The media reports back in the 60s that I mentioned did precisely what you're saying it's impossible to do, though. So much so that, 40 years later, a writer decides to use it in his film in order to show how barbaric the inmates of his prison colony are. (And of course you can test to see if someone has it. How else would they monitor their behaviour?) If your kid was diagnosed with that particular defect, and everyone believed that it meant that they would turned out to be child rapist because of a film, then you'd be rightly miffed. But I take your point that the chances are slight, so fair enough. It's still shoddy science, though.

Your point about science-fiction is just beyond comprehension, though. I don't even know where to begin...?

I supposed the easiest and quickest way is to say this:

> Fiorina "Fury" 161: An all-male penal colony inhabited by people with freckles.

The science part is important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbbb1138 

Plus, it's a sci-fi movie.  Who's to say that, in the future of the Alien movies, when genetic manipulation has become more common, that people who are genetically engineered and end up with double y chromosomes because of some problem in the process don't have some behavioral defect as a result of that problem?
 

Because that behavioural defect wouldn't be attributed to having Double Y Chromosomes... obviously?

Jeunet is exaggerating a lot when saying that the Alien Resurrection BD looks like DVD. You can tell it's from a dated source, and some scenes do look soft, but most of the time, it looks like watching a theatrical release print. Not great, but detail enhancement over DVD is very apparent. It's also quite grainy and has no digital DVNR and sharpening look. Of course, it pales in comparision to the outstanding job done on Alien and Aliens.

The worst looking film in the set is Alien 3, which has quite some noise reduction baked into the master. You can also tell that the transfer was made on an old scanner, because highlights tend to overshoot, having a small dark ring around them, which resembles filming light objects with an HDTV videocam. It has an electronic look to it. Still bearable, some scenes do look acceptable, but in the end, disappointing.

But then again, as long as no version of the film is Fincher's vision, with Fincher refusing to participate in any way, we probably will never get Alien 3 looking as magnificient as Se7en. So, when talking about Alien 3, I mourn the fact that it's still an incomplete film more than having an old HD transfer on the Blu Ray.

The question is: is there any possibility that Fincher might get a close approximation of his vision out of all the materials being filmed during the shoot of Alien 3? So, let's say, if Charles finally manages to convince him to collaborate on a Final Cut, and every material being filmed is re-evaluated, is there a complete film in the cans?

Considering how Jeunet horribly interpreted Whedon's script, it's odd that he'd complain about it "looking like DVD"?? Is he the film's only fan? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John CW 

Considering how Jeunet horribly interpreted Whedon's script, it's odd that he'd complain about it "looking like DVD"?? Is he the film's only fan? :)

I've heard a lot of comments from Whedon over the years on his script being mishandled, but I've never really made the conclusion if he has a valid point or if the director/producers made logical choices in where they diverged from his material.  Is Whedon's final script online?
 

Whedon's final script is included on the DVD/Bluray set. It's probably online, too. I can absolutely confirm that there were some horrible decisions made independently from his script. The main "pirate" crew, for example, was supposed to be a really scary group of people -- much closer to a bunch of Cameron characters... Instead we got Winona Ryder, et al. Really bizarre choices like that.

On the flipside, the shot of the three aliens in the holding cell apparently "thinking"/"having an argument" was in Whedon's original script... and that's an almost unforgivably bad idea. The aliens are scary precisely because they're inscrutable. The moment you start adding personalities is the moment they're not as terrifying, because you can then reason with them. Still, a good director would have noticed this in editing and removed the shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John CW 

Whedon's final script is included on the DVD/Bluray set. It's probably online, too. I can absolutely confirm that there were some horrible decisions made independently from his script. The main "pirate" crew, for example, was supposed to be a really scary group of people -- much closer to a bunch of Cameron characters... Instead we got Winona Ryder, et al. Really bizarre choices like that.

 

On the flipside, the shot of the three aliens in the holding cell apparently "thinking"/"having an argument" was in Whedon's original script... and that's an almost unforgivably bad idea. The aliens are scary precisely because they're inscrutable. The moment you start adding personalities is the moment they're not as terrifying, because you can then reason with them. Still, a good director would have noticed this in editing and removed the shot.

I saw that scene as the Aliens adapting to their environment and actually learning, to me that's a crucial scene in the film, maybe it could have been filmed better but i like that scene, i viewed it more along along the lines of the aliens being ruthless in killing one of their own to escape, it was kinda funny the reaction of the alien picked upon to die though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder 

I saw that scene as the Aliens adapting to their environment and actually learning, to me that's a crucial scene in the film, maybe it could have been filmed better but i like that scene, i viewed it more along along the lines of the aliens being ruthless in killing one of their own to escape, it was kinda funny the reaction of the alien picked upon to die though.

Oh, I totally agree. The idea was perfect, and showed just how ruthless the aliens are... but the actual shot of them "discussing" it was a very bad idea, not to mention unintentionally funny. (We could have just seen the aftermath of their escape and heard someone say -- "My god, they killed one of their own in order to escape!" -- or some less risible dialogue.) And the actual shot was in Whedon's script.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John CW 

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder 

I saw that scene as the Aliens adapting to their environment and actually learning, to me that's a crucial scene in the film, maybe it could have been filmed better but i like that scene, i viewed it more along along the lines of the aliens being ruthless in killing one of their own to escape, it was kinda funny the reaction of the alien picked upon to die though.

Oh, I totally agree. The idea was perfect, and showed just how ruthless the aliens are... but the actual shot of them "discussing" it was a very bad idea, not to mention unintentionally funny. (We could have just seen the aftermath of their escape and heard someone say -- "My god, they killed one of their own in order to escape!" -- or some less risible dialogue.) And the actual shot was in Whedon's script.

You are right but i wonder if it was intentional and supposed to be funny because i do always laugh at that scene.

You should not be laughing at the aliens in an alien movie. Lol. Something was really wrong with the film when the audience did that.

That is the most memorable scene in the movie... that and the alien freeze-drying the human. The rest of the film is mostly a blur, but those moments are memorable.

At least the aliens' conversation did not have subtitles!

Lol. Very true... perhaps someone should create a video of that! :)