THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced - Page 4

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I beleive he said a friend of his was watching them that had more of an insight than he does on the Fugitive music. But I am like you, I can't wait until we hear his observations! I hope they bring us good news!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I can say with some modesty that there are very few people on this planet that know the music to The Fugitive better than I! I am sure there is somebody, because there always is--but I have yet to meet them (although I would love to meet them)!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Are you the one viewing the DVD's for Gord David?

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Sorry Tim and Dave, I read the post wrong. I thought the message was addressed to Gord. Sorry!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Does any one have the link to the CBS/Paramont site that list the shows that have been trasfered to HD? I think some of the Fugitive seasons was on that list.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I read your post wrong, as well. I thought you were saying of friend of mine was watching the DVDs and had insight on them...as far as what Gord has going on, you'd have to ask Gord.

I wish people would just call me Carab and I could get my first name removed. It just causes problems like this, as there are too many David's around.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks for the shout out to me, Jeff. I'm never a fan of someone tooting their own horn (which I've seen here already). But I think I can tell you real quickly whether or not the replaced music is too intrusive or not. That shouldn't be too hard. It's subjective anyhow, as each person has a different level of "acceptability". For me, if the entire Rugolo score is intact, and we are only looking at what amounts to less than 30 seconds an episode of rescored music, I can live with it. If that amount rise to something over 2 minutes per episode I might consider it too intrusive. I'm really just going to have to wait it out, and since I'm on the East Coast and this is going all the way out to California, I imagine my wait time will be considerably longer that many others here.

But once they reach me, I'll let everyone know my personal feelings. I'm sure other fans will do the same. Between us all we should be able to give everyone else a pretty good idea about the new cut.

Gary "hope I don't have to wait the full 6 weeks to get my replacement discs" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

This series has been partially transferred into HD and has the following masters:
Network 4x3 HD (Seasons 1 & 2, 60 episodes total)
Syndication Bible

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

If I came off as someone tooting my own horn, it was only because I thought JLKISNER was saying I had to get a friend to help me better understand the music. It was an honest misunderstanding, and for my part in it, I apologize.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Me too. I read the post wrong and thought it was addressed to Gord, not Carabimero. Sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding. Didn't mean any offense to Carabmero! Sorry my friend!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

That is the link I was looking for! Thanks Corey3rd

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I really appreciate that Paramount is doing this. I'd really gotten to the point where I practically erased all thoughts of "The Fugitive" out of my mind these past few months, having been so disappointed and disgusted with the marring on dvd of one of my all-time top favorite series. I'd even gotten to the point of not picking up other Paramount releases, which I would have normally purchased, just due to residual irritation.

But learning of this, I do recognize the truly commendable effort of Paramount to rectify all this, and yesterday I made a beeline to the only nearby store that would have a copy of season-2, part-1. I also picked up two other Paramount releases (Invaders s-2 and Hillbillies s-2), as a show of faith. I guess the whole situation was so exasperating because Paramount had been the sterling leader of these dvd-sets for several years, and it was especially galling for them to flub up so much last year.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Now that I have finally picked up Volume 1 of Season 2 in response to this wonderful news, I just placed my pre-order for Volume 2 of Season 2. Very exciting to have this show back on track!

Kudos again to CBS/Paramount for rectifying this situation and restoring the faith. Great work by all responsible.

Jay

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Impressions on a few replacement episodes

Thanks to Gord, I had an opportunity to watch a couple of check discs Tuesday. Here are some impressions for what they're worth.

First a grateful high-five to CBS/Paramount for listening to consumers, taking the time and going to the expense to largely correct and re-issue the set. Watching the episodes felt like I was watching The Fugitive again. What makes this show special for me--the forlorn feeling of Kimble, alone, stirred by Rugolo--has been fundamentally restored. I believe most fans will be pleased, and I encourage those who hesitated to buy the set because of bad press to consider picking it up and giving the exchange program a chance.

We were told "much of the music" had been put back. In the eight episodes I perused, I'd go so far as to say a "vast majority" had been restored. I doubt everyone will be happy, yet I think most of us will, and I look forward to receiving my own copy.

I'll mention two changes I feel are representative. In "Man in a Chariot," the Capitol cue from Begley's closing summation has been removed and for the bulk of that great oration we hear only silence beneath him. I'd prefer the Goldsmith cut, yet given the choice, silence works better than Heyes.

In "Man on a String," the identical cue was also expunged. Here Heyes blares over a nervous Kimble in court. Even so, good judgment prevailed, at least in terms of spotting; leaving silence for Begley while potting up replacement music when the drama demands it demonstrates discrimination by the restoration team. The thoughtfulness so desperately needed in the original release is, at least, attempted here. On the downside, portions of the synthesized underscore remain hot, erupting all too pristinely between vintage Rugolo.

Still, watching "Tug of War" made me forget I was viewing a replacement disc; I stopped thinking about all the months of frustration and anguish. I was simply enjoying an episode of The Fugitive, an old friend I'd seen dozens of times and will always love seeing again. Gradually the betrayal, the anger I felt at CBS/Paramount, started to wane.

The rest of the episodes remain for other forum members to discover and write about. It's more fun that way. I hope Halle's song in "Ballad for a Ghost" has been put back; after spending months with a fan-based reconstruction team that restored every cue in fifteen episodes, the end credits and the missing "Ballad" footage, I simply didn't have the heart to look. I fear she and her guitar are gone. But I did want to offer my opinion on a few episodes in hopes of giving those on the fence some optimism that if you buy the set and exchange it, odds are you'll be pleased. Of course I wanted every original element returned where it belongs. Given legal realities, however, I can appreciate what the studio is offering.

Sincerest thanks again to CBS/Paramount for stopping on the side of the road to pick up an earplugged Richard Kimble, return his tie and duffel bag, and give him a chance to climb back toward the top of his singular pedestal.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

It's an interesting quirk of timing that about the time many of us might be receiving the corrected discs, the second volume of season two will be near (3/31). Thus, we might consider ourselves to be getting all of season two in one lump.

We can restart viewing season two with the first set and continue straight on through to the conclusion of it. Bring on Season Three!

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Impressions on a few replacement episodes

Thanks for your comments, Carab. Given your knowledge and passion for the show and its score, if you're satisfied with the changes, I'm guessing that the vast majority of folks here will be too. Very helpful!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks. It's nice to be appreciated

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Here's a win-win for those who want to support the continuation of "The Fugitive" on DVD. Amazon currently is taking pre-orders for season 2, volume 2 for $25.99 shipped. That's the lowest price that I've seen on the web. Just be sure to order through the TVShowsonDVD.com web site as a way of saying thanks to Gord and Dave. You get a great pre-order price on the set, the guys at TSOD get a little financial renumeration for their efforts, and we'll continue to see this great series get released with most of its original score intact.

Here's the link: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/shows/Fugitive/1806

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Are the administrators of this Forum aware that one of the random Ads by Google that pops up under the masthead when you open this site .... features two BOOTLEG links offering entire series DVDs of The Fugitive?!

Imagine my surprise when I opened this thread this morning and the first thing I saw were the two links in the Ads by Google, advertising "All 120 Episodes of the Fugitive. UNCUT!" The other one was advertising all 120 episodes 75% off. This is pretty deliberate and sinister placement, if you ask me, and I would certainly warn anyone against ever ordering far inferior product from these sources. But I did check the link to see if they were functioning bootleg sites and they were.

I'll be picking up the legitimate CBS/Paramount release probably today to take advantage of the replacement program, but I just wanted to alert administrators to an ad on this site obviously exploiting frustration with the excised versions of the show. (And the 75% off banner is probably their desperation to dump inventory knowing that CBS/Paramount has now addressed that issue).

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Impressions on a few replacement episodes

I was hoping the Heyes music would be just stuff on the radio or cafe stuff. I probably dont know the music as well as carab, but I know it pretty well. It might even be more than 50% of the experience for me. I would rather have silence during scenes than the Hayes stuff. So I guess the question for me is, do I go for pristine video and sound quality, or do I just keep the set I have so I can enjoy all the original music but with questionable quality.

Dave

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Google constantly rotates their advertisers and adds new ones. If you see any bootleg sites in Ads by Google, please send a PM to Parker Clack, and be sure to include the link to the site. Parker can block these ads, but only if he has the link.

Also, for future reference, contacting us by PM or email is a much more effective way to report a problem. This is a busy forum, and reporting a problem in a thread is like shouting in a crowd and hoping that the appropriate person happens to hear you. Sometimes they do, but often they don't.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Impressions on a few replacement episodes

Personally, based on the info we got, this is about what I expected. It was really "Option 2" as far as CBS/P was concerned. Their explanation early on was that they couldn't identify who owned the rights to some music cues, and that rather than just replace THOSE, they opted to provide a "seamless experience" with a whole new score.

Now that the proverbial stuff has hit the fan(s)!, the option of putting back the known Rugulo cues will likely satisfy some of us, with the remaining Heyes stuff still an irritant to others.

The Rugulo stuff was composed and orchestrated with THE FUGITIVE in mind. The Capitol Music cues, the TWILIGHT ZONE and OUTER LIMITS stuff was composed for other uses entirely - it just happened to fit extremely well within the framework of THE FUGITIVE.

Hopefully, in future releases, the pattern will at least continue with this tactic, perhaps toning down the Heyes stuff to make it less intrusive than it's been described here and witnessed on the first-issue discs.

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Very good idea, Bob. I did that very thing within hours of the news on Tuesday. I'm in full agreement that it's a nice gesture for folks to use Gord & Dave's link. And you're correct about the price - it's the best I've seen.

Sounds like this will be just about what I thought from the earliest comments by Gord. There's going to be most, if not all, the Rugolo score in the episodes which should make every FUGE fan very happy. On the other hand, some of the wonderful Capital cues that many of us have come to know and love are not going to be included so that's still a bummer (but completely expected at this point). I believe the enjoyment one gets out of this set will now be a very individual thing. Some will enjoy more than others, but all should be thankful that we at least have the majority of the backscore intact again.


Gary "I'm buying both sets, but I'm not sure I'll be throwing away my old bootlegs just yet either" O.


P.S. I see that Harry has beaten me to the punch with a very well written post that expresses my opinions to a tee. Well done, my friend. You are spot on, IMHO.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Impressions on a few replacement episodes

That raises an interesting point, Harry. Undoubtedly, we'll hear some of the Heyes cues on season 2, volume 2 since, presumably, the new cues were created and recorded for the entire season 2. But I wonder whether or not Heyes recorded anything past season 2 of "The Fugitive," given the uproar over the season 2, volume 1 set. Depending upon the nature of his contract, I suppose that the cues that he recorded for season 2 could also be used for the remaining seasons.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Interesting to see the Amazon sales rank for season 2, volume 2 as of about 12:45 p.m. Eastern time:

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #58 in Movies & TV (See Bestsellers in Movies & TV)

Though it's just one of many indicators, it appears that the replacement program is having its desired effect for the future of the series. Season 2, volume 1 was around 1,900, though.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Carab (and/or anyone else that has some info)

As a 1st-time viewer of this show on DVD, I think I know where the Capitol/library cues are located in this series but I'd like to ask you to help me out on this one. I'll include some specific scenes from S1 & S2 and you can let me know if I have identified the Cap cues correctly:

S1: Never Wave Goodbye Pt 1 - early in the episode, "Lars" & "Kimble" are finishing lunch on the pier and when Lars begins to tell "Karen's" story about her parents to Kimble, background music begins at the same time. Is that a "library" cue or original Rugolo score?

S1: Same episode: When Karen is dropping off Kimble at the bus sta to go to LA, they're pulling up to the sta in Karen's Ford (I think it's a Falcon Ranchero ), and they're saying 'Bye and there's a brief cue. Is that another Cap/library cue?

S2: When the Bough Breaks: Near the end of the episode, where Diana Hyland "Carol" Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) . How about that one?

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

So I think I got the last copy of S2V1 available at Brick & Mortar stores in my metropolitan area. Best Buy stores don't carry it (except online); Target doesn't carry it; and here's the kicker ... most Borders stores are now dropping media (CD and DVD). I got the last copy left at five Borders stores in my area. That was one of the few existing places where you could actually find deeper catalog items like The Fugitive.

Sure, most of us order our DVDs online now, but it was always a nice treat to be able to actually browse a local store and find some deeper catalog items like this. No more.

Just a heads up to any others that might be trying to track a non-online copy of S2V1 down.

Now, where's that stamp? ....

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Impressions on a few replacement episodes

Like Jeff Willis has stated, I don't want to come across as negative or complaining. I'm very thankful that CBS/Paramount went to the trouble they did and worked the Rugolo score back in. I've sent my Season 2, Vol. 1 tabs in and hope to be able to hear the changes for myself in the near future. But I do want to remind the long time fans (and those that were introduced to the show with the 1st Season sets) that there was a decent amount of CBS Library cues used that have become, at least to some of us, as much a part of the show as the Rugolo music. For instance, the Jerry Goldsmith cues from Twilight Zone episodes like "Back There" and "The Invaders" were used heavily in the first 3 seasons. I'm hoping they have not been expunged. And of course there was the Capitol Library cues. The point is that there are certain scores that are extremely familiar to us and if they are part of what's missing we will notice it.

There's a cue that's used in the epilogue of the ending sequence of part two of "Angels..." that would just kill me if it had been replaced. It's a very special cue to me that's used in, for instance, the Christmas-themed Season 1 episode of HAVE GUN, WILL TRAVEL. It's not a Rugolo score (at least as far as I know it's not) but if had shown up missing then I'd have been devastated. It might be a HGWT specific score that was then used in THE FUGITIVE. Seems like I've heard it in other shows too, so I'm not positive of the origin.

Bottom line is that I just want to caution everyone that there will, apparently, still be some very familiar music that's going to be gone/replaced in these newer sets. Will it be better than before? Duh! Of course it will. But will it be just like the 1st Season set? Nope. So I'm suggesting that we not get our expectations sky high. We should be excited and grateful. No doubt about that. I'm just tempering my enthusiasm just a bit till I hear this for myself. But if the majority of the CBS Library is there (like the music from THE TWILIGHT ZONE and such) then I believe I'll be very pleased.

Gary "again, not throwing cold water on this - just pointing out that some of the cues were just about as important as the Rugolo backscore at times in this series" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I can only speak for the episodes I saw, but as I stated in my review, the majority of those cues have been removed and left either silent or filled with Heyes. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not shooting down the set because of it. That's simply my own personal take. Others may have a different view.

Looking ahead, I don't want to imagine LANDSCAPE WITH RUNNING FIGURES. It's full of Twilight Zone cues. Not just The Invaders, but The Grave as well, and a few others.

We'll have to wait and see.

P.S. I will only respond to the name Carab now. My wife may have issues.