THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced - Page 20

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

It still bugs me that they took out a chunk of the music during Begley's oration in MAN IN A CHARIOT...for the love of the Lords of Kobol, why?

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Carab, I don't have the original handy but just what is missing? To me it sounded perfectly natural that it started out silence when he begins the perfunctory part of the summation, but the "Invaders" cue kicks in when the tone shifts and it becomes clear he starts addressing the students.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Me too. I just spot checked that one again and I have absolutely no idea what in the world is missing there. Music is playing throughout the entire Begley summation from the point forward that Jack mentions. As best I can tell it's 100% perfect.

Gary "unless my original copy is off (highly unlikely), I'm not understanding the problem with this scene in 'Chariot'" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I received my replacement discs today, and I've watched every minute of all 4 episodes on Disc #1, and I've also done a side-by-side check of the scene in question in "Man In A Chariot" (comparing the new DVD with a VHS version of the episode that I taped off of A&E in 1995)....

And allow me to clear up this "Chariot" music question once and for all -- I'm very happy to report that every last note of the original CBS Library music is included in the "Begley Final Summation" scene on the CBS/Paramount DVD.

The scene is totally silent on my 1995 VHS copy up until the point where Begley/Lazer says these words: "Far beyond that required of the ordinary man". At that point (and underneath those words too), the CBS Library underscore softly begins, and then increases a little more in volume after the above sentence is spoken by Begley.

This is more good news, because it means that still more of the original 1964 music is intact on these replacement DVDs.

Before I did my VHS vs. DVD check regarding this scene in "Chariot", I've got to admit that I thought Carab was correct....because I had thought perhaps some additional underscore did adorn the early part of Begley's summation to the jury. But my VHS tape confirms that there's not a single note missing in this scene on the DVD.

My full long-winded review for S2V1 will be coming shortly to a forum near you (this forum, in fact).

Regards,
D.V.P.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thank you, David. I thought I was going crazy and missing something even though I was spot checking with probably the same source as you (older BM intro video transferred to dvd-r).

Gary "I agree that if you don't have the original it may 'feel' like something is missing in the early part of the summation when there's total silence - but the fact is nothing's missing" O.

P.S. Oops, see that you are using a '95 A&E copy. I was actually using the video source where Barry Morse had done intros. I believe they were NuVenture or something like that.

P.P.S. Looking forward to your review, David.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Dave, glad to know you were ON top of the "Chariot" situation. Look forward to seeing your full review.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thank you, Gary and Jack.

Actually, the toughest part of doing "VHS vs. DVD" spot checks like that "Chariot" one is trying to remember which dang VHS tape each episode is on.

I don't have any of my '95 Fuge VHS tapes labelled (by episode)....I just labelled them "Tape 1", "Tape 2", etc. So I have to take a stab in the dark and try to guess which tape has which episode. I can usually guess fairly closely, because I know my first tape begins with a dandy of an episode -- Season 1's "Search In A Windy City"....and A&E I think showed the episodes in perfect running order.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I got my replacement set today. It feels like The Fugitive! The Rugolo music is thankfully there. So are a lot of the CBS cues. I've heard the music that opens each of the four acts of "Tug of War," as well as the music that opens the second act of "Dark Corner," on 1961-62 episodes of Gunsmoke. There is some Hayes stuff still present though, like in the opening music of the second act of "Ballad for a Ghost." It sounds a little softer though.

Not a bad effort from CBS/Paramount. I will be buying S.2, V.2. I just hope they continue with Season 3, and The Fugitive doesn't get stalled/abandoned. So far through the first half of this year, CBS/Paramount has plans for releasing only 2 black and white dramas, The Fugitive and Gunsmoke. In both cases, the releases are volume 2, finishing seasons that were started last year. I hope they continue with these B&W shows and they're not the victim of the recession or whatever.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I am more optimistic about good sales on "The Fugitive" for V2 in the wake of this that will get them to continue. If they were thinking long-range about stalling the progress, then I don't think they would have had any reason to go ahead with the whole replacement project.

CBS/Paramount is probably at this point in "retrenchment" mode because of the economy and deciding that at this point they should continue only with those titles that are doing better, namely "Hawaii FIve-O", finishing MI, and I would also be sure of seeing more "Perry Mason" and "Love Boat" this year. "Fugitive" I think stands a good chance too, but maybe we'll have to wait 9 months rather than six (which would put us close to the beginning of 2010).

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thank you, David. Sometimes it takes two or three witnesses to get things established correctly. And I think you are correct about the A&E broadcast order.



I pretty much agree, John. Certainly things like the problems with "Ballad" are frustrating, but I'm still much happier than I first anticipated. And I also think something that's helping is that the Heyes stuff is softer. It's not jumping out at me.

Gary "glad to see so many are getting their discs now" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I would love to be able to claim the check disc (which I thought I double checked) was somehow different, but we can probably chalk this one up to operator error.

I only wish all the cues I listed as altered were mistakes.

That's a good catch on Jack's part, and confirmation on DVP's part (glad you finally got your set).

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Kimble reached Dallas today via US mail Thanks to Gary's work and others here, I don't need to plug them in right away. Mom will be happy that, from "The Cage" to the remaining episodes of the new set, we'll be able to watch the show (video) presented in the best possible way on DVD. After reading posts Gary's checks, I'm sure that the small % of Heyes insertions won't bother us with the rest of the S2V1 set.

I probably will watch my "alternate" DVD when we get to "Ballad for a Ghost", particularly since Mom's a retired music teacher.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Yeah, I still plan on watching my personally restored versions of most of these...hopefully more and more episodes will come in like TUG OF WAR as virtually intact...count me as another poster looking forward to DVP's review.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Sounds like a great plan, Jeff. Keep watching those episodes with your Mom. I know both of you will continue to enjoy them immensely.

Gary "I'm really happy everyone is getting these discs and can enjoy them" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Me too, Gary. I wonder, though, about folks who bought the original butchered set that, for whatever reason, have not found out about the replacement program. But it figures if they are savvy to the changes then they are probably connected to the right channels to know about the program.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I finally found an hour on this busy Saturday to sit and watch an episode from the replacement discs. I have to say that for CBS/Paramount to have sent a full package, including new art and case, WITH the discs now housed in the center, they are a true class act.

How much of a miracle is this? To think that just eight months ago, we were all moping around and "kicking dogs" in our disgust at what had been done to "our" show.

Now, we're all watching these fully replaced discs, with nearly fully restored music, just as we always wanted them to be - and just as we knew they COULD be.

Thank you, CBS/Paramount, for listening to the knowledgeable fan base for this series. Thank you for doing the tough work of re-doing these episodes and for setting the series back on course to be the one on the highest pedestal in our collections.

I chose to watch "Dark Corner", as it's one of the episodes I hadn't seen from the June discs, other than to quickly check the music. How wonderful it was to hear "correct" music, even though that episode didn't use a ton of Rugolo cues. But the ones that WERE there, were once again familiar and welcoming.

What a great cast in that episode. Crahan Denton as the patriarch of the family, Elizabeth McCrae, the late Paul Carr, John McLiam, and the incomparably gorgeous Tuesday Weld!

Given that the second half of Season Two will be out in three weeks, these episodes will make a nice continuity with that set.

At some point I'll get curious enough to dig out a VHS tape to do a comparison. I can actually run two sources side-by-side on my large HDTV and switch between them for audio. The challenge will be slowing down the taped episodes that in many cases are time-sped in order to keep them in sync.

And I'll keep in touch with this thread - often - to read the details of everyone else's results of their own comparisons.

Bottom line is - THE FUGITIVE IS BACK!

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

That really was a great episode, wasn't it Harry. I watched it yesterday and did do a comparison on the 1st Act and as best I could tell it was note for note right on. No subs at all. I then tired of starting and stopping my two different players and just watched the rest of the episode on the replacement disc. If there was any Heyes in there, I couldn't detect it. Again, that's not to say there wasn't any there. But if there was it was completely unintrusive to my ears.

Gary "glad you enjoyed that one so much - it's one of those episodes that sometimes gets overlooked" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Glad you got your set, Harry.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

For those who are keeping the old Heyes discs around, and are concerned about getting the discs mixed up, there's a visual way of telling them apart.

Around the center hub of each disc, on the non-label side, if you hold just right in the light, you'll see a bunch of machine markings and some serial numbers.

At the conclusion of the serial numbers in the Heyes discs, you'll see an "R0".

At the conclusion of the serial numbers in the restored discs, you'll see an "R1".

Not that plopping a disc in a player wouldn't identify what you've got, but this is a quick visual way of telling the otherwise identical discs apart.

I don't yet know of any way to identify if CBS/Paramount decides to send these new discs to the market place, how one would tell them apart. I know that when Capitol Records messed up the mono tracks on the Beatles CAPITOL ALBUMS VOLUME 2 set, they also did a disc-replacement program and later released revised packages to the marketplace with an SK1 on the front sticker, without recalling the old packages.

It's possible that CBS/Paramount might mirror that plan - begin to filter out replacement discs in new sets without recalling the old ones.

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks for the info, Harry. I have about decided to just take a black Sharpie and identify the Heyes set by writing the corresponsing episode titles on each disc; since they have a space in my DVD wallet side-by-side with the replacement set and my own fully restored set, they can serve a purpose as being a kind of episode guide of sorts.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

After Harry's post I got out my wallet and looked. I now have, in whole or in part, seven different versions of the episodes represented in S2V1.

(1) My A&E versions transferred to DVD, (2) my crappy bootleg version, (3) episodes from Nu Ventures transferred to DVD, (4) laserdisc episodes transferred to DVD; (5) the original butchered set from CBS/P, (6) the full-res DVD set I worked on to restore all the cues myself (still my preferred choice); and, now (7), the replacement version.

That's a lot of versions!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Well, eight months and three weeks following my birthday, I have finally received my original V2, S1 DVD copy of The Fugitive.

And now, I am off to procure a copy of my disc replacement sheet for the V2, S1 set. It shall be mailed off first thing Monday morning. Hopefully, my replacement discs shall arrive with the swiftness as which some of you fellow Fuge Fans have already received yours.

And once that happens...MY HUGE FUGE BIRTHDAY COMPENSATION SHALL BE COMPLETE!!!!!!!!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

You go, Carab!!!!!!!!!!!!! U awesome!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Or: You could take that Sharpie marker and write an even more-appropriate moniker on each Heyes-filled disc ---

REALLY CRAPPY COPY OF S2V1 -- DISC 1...2...3...4.

I will say something, though, that others at HTF have uttered in the past few weeks as well -- I do kinda feel sorry for Mr. Heyes (and the other 2 men who are given an "Additional Music By" credit on the June '08 Fuge DVDs).

They were doing the best job they could (I'm sure)...and look at the result -- their work has been totally and thoroughly trashed from pillar to post (and back) by the likes of us (i.e., true-blue Fugitive fans who know that the Rugolo/CBS music belongs in every last episode, or else it's simply not "THE FUGITIVE").

I'd hate to be in Mr. Heyes' shoes actually. I would guess he got paid a decent amount for his work on those re-scored discs, and he surely didn't set out to totally destroy the great TV treasure known as "The Fugitive" when he went to work on re-doing the music. He no doubt did his best.

But I guess the bottom line is now...and was on June 10th, 2008, when this debacle began...and will be for all time: No other music can possibly replace the original 1960s Rugolo/CBS themes in "The Fugitive". It simply cannot be done. It's like trying to replace a Cadillac with a Pinto and then expecting the Cadillac buyers not to notice the difference.

(Yes, this thread now has a secondary title -- Analogies 'R Us.)

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Tina,

The birthday present I sent you way back when is still, in my opinion, better than the replacement version, because it has every cue fully restored in ESCAPE INTO BLACK, even if the sound source is analog with a bit more hiss than the factory DVD.

But you're right--there's nothing like getting a "real toy" for your birthday, even if it is a bit late--so enjoy the replacement package when it comes and happy belated b-day!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

DVP, J.S. Bach could have written the replacement music. It could have been stunning. But I'd still want Rugolo, et. al.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Even so, an apt analogy it is, David.

Gary "I'm going to get a bumper sticker made up that says 'RUGOLO FOREVER'" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Bingo, Carab.

Hence, this earlier comment:

"No other music can possibly replace the original 1960s Rugolo/CBS themes in "The Fugitive". It simply cannot be done." -- DVP

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

A report on "Nemesis." It seemed to me like there was a slightly higher level of Heyes in the first half (but I don't have the original to compare), but once Kimble and Phil, Jr. run into Slim Pickens the three familiar TZ cues listed for this episode on the David Jannssen Archive are right there, the mixture of "Two", the opening part of "The Invaders" when Phil, Jr. knocks over the rifle which then is mixed in with "Back There."

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks for the report, Jack. Looks like I'll be sticking to my own restored version for NEMESIS, which is fine because the restored cues came off the laser disc and sound fantastic (plus my DVD has home-made special features, like Barry Morse's intro!).