THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced - Page 12

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Yeah, I'd rather silence than Heyes. Some of the best suspense films used silence to great advantage. "The Asphalt Jungle" comes to mind. It features a Miklos Rozsa score, but the music only appears in the very beginning and very end. Throughout the nail-biting jewel heist, there is no music, but the silence works great.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

There is at least one spot in Man In A Chariot when Begley is giving his closing summation that we get silence rather than Heyes, so it follows, hopefully, that there might be other spots as well.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quiet Heyes didn't bother me much in the two episodes I watched but when he got loud, that was when it was too much to bear. But it was his act oepnings and closings that irritated me most and those at least will be out with Rugolo back in.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I agree, Jack. There are times when the Heyes music is very low-key and this is when it is at its least obtrusive. Gary said in an earlier post he almost fell off his seat when watching one S2V1 episode when the Heyes music kicked on in full force during an act opening. After receiving my S2V1 set Monday and sampling an episode with Heyes music, now I know what he's talking about.

Heyes' music might work for something else, but it seems way out of place on "The Fugitive." Could you imagine trying to watch "Star Trek" or "The Twilight Zone" or "The Wild, Wild West" or "The Prisoner" or "Mission: Impossible" or "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" or "Columbo" or "Rawhide" with the Heyes "Fugitive" music? I guess we're lucky in the sense that many other old TV shows haven't been ruined with this junk.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I'm with Jack on that one. The quiet Heyes is kind of like mild indigestion; you can sit there and make your way through it; but when he cranks up those fake horns, mild indigestion turns into the gagging reflex. Most of those are gone in the opening act bridges, but those Heyes horns still flare up in action-packed moments where The Twilight Zone cues had been, but thankfully are at a minimum.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

LOL, Jim. It's really true, isn't it. The milder, quieter stuff isn't too bad. But when he gets loud and pipes in the blaring trumpets and such, it's just horrendous.

Gary "as I've said many times on this thread, I will give these discs a whirl when they come in and I'm sure the changes will make it much more palatable" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

DVP,
If you get a chance, can you please check out the series pilot, "Fear In a Desert City" and in act 1 Kimble is looking for a hotel while William Conrad is narrating.
The music during this scene is some of my favorite...sorta moody/paranoia music and can you tell me if this is Rugolo music ??

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Palatable to me in the sense that if S1 is filet mignon, and the first S2 V1 was raw liver, the replacements should at least be good hamburger!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I meant to answer your query before, but the Forum software had a hiccup this morning.

Yes indeed, that scene features classic Pete Rugolo "Fugitive" music. I believe all of the pilot episode probably utilized only Rugolo music, but haven't listened to the whole thing with that question in mind.

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I am using the isolated scores feature on The Twilight Zone set to make good .wav files of all TZ scores used in The Fugitive. They are complete and they sound very, very good. Just did BACK THERE and can't believe I never had this on my iPod.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

The four CD TZ 40th Anniversary collection is actually still in print and available from Amazon. It has all the key scores that were later used in "The Fugitive".

Amazon.com: The Twilight Zone: 40th Anniversary Collection (Television Series Scores): Various Artists - Soundtracks, Jerry Goldsmith, Patrick Williams: Music

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Yes, in my opinion the sound isn't very good on that set. The isolated scores on the TZ Definitive DVD are to my ears much crisper and have a higher signal to noise ratio, so it is worth it to me to get the music that way, particularly the missing cues in season two of The Fugitive. But thanks for the link. There's also a nice collection of Herrmann scores from TZ that I recommend.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Hey thanks Harry !
I am so happy to know that clip is classic Rugolo and with what I heard on the youtube clip I think I will be happy enough with the replacement disks.

I am watching season..... again and it will be so nice to see some new episodes.
I probably have only seen about 30% of the Fugitive episodes !!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Hmm, it's kind of difficult to ascertain the proper perspective on this situation based on the posts thus far. As near as I can tell, the fair and balanced view of those who have actually seen the restored shows on the free screeners supplied by CBS/Paramount, is to be grateful to the studio or at the very least give them the benefit of the doubt. Am I reading that right?

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

welcome to the forum, shadyguy!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks Carab, It is nice to find a forum where people are reasonable and level headed most of the time.
You guys have so much info. on here I cannot comprehend it and makes my head hurt....but keep it up !!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Speaking only for myself, that is how I took those posts.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Harry already answered this question up above. But I, too, was prepared to answer "Yes" to that question.

Although I can't imagine anyone asking me that question when "Carab" is looking at this thread daily. And Carab, as we have seen, is also known as (as I mentioned in a post yesterday) "The Walking Encyclopedia Of Fugitive Musical Data".

I don't have one-tenth the knowledge about the Fuge music as does Carab. But I can tell you this -- I'm a big enough fan of the series to instantly recognize when music has been changed within the episodes.

But as far as associating specific Fuge cues with specific TZ and Outer Limits episodes, etc., I'll defer to Mr. Carab (and other more-knowledgeable Fuge music students).

BTW, the Liner Notes that come with the 2001 Audio-CD of Fugitive music are very interesting to read, as they give a rather detailed background of Pete Rugolo's involvement in creating the music he composed specifically for the series.

But make sure you have a magnifying glass handy....because, man!, is that printing tiny!

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Archived DVP Reviews

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I wonder if Heyes composed the new song in "Ballad for a Ghost". There was no reason for CBS/Paramount to change this song since it was written for that episode.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I might have been called "The walking encyclopedia of Fugitive musical data" but it's pretty obvious there are others here with impressive credentials as well. Harry, DVP and Gary are three that come to mind off the top of my head. So we have no shortage of knowledgeable folks around here--which is a great thing, because if one of us is less knowledgeable in a certain area (for example, I'm no expert when it comes to season four), then there are others who can jump in and pick up the slack.

If something positive has come out of all these alterations I like to think it's the folks I've encountered and the friends I have made here at the HTF.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Yeah, Carab, that isolated music feature is really nice on that TZ set. Man, do I enjoy that set. Like somebody else mentioned on here, it is his prize possession as far as classic TV show collections are concerned. I feel the same way.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Here's another thought -- maybe the replacement sets will be different than those check discs? Maybe CBS has been following the responses to Carab's review and understands now what everybody was really hoping for and will make further adjustments? Wishful thinking? Of course. But hey, why not?

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

My own experience with check discs is that changes are made only if there was an authoring error. Any content error better be pretty important or you're S.O.L.

We can hope for changes, but the odds are better that I lost my mind and made errors in what I thought I heard. Having triple checked certain spots, however, I fear that too is not the case.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I'd say it's pretty important -- to us. Whether CBS takes that same stance is doubtful, but if they went through all the trouble for the replacement program, I'm sure they wouldn't want to let us down. After all, they put classic television "on a pedestal." Here's a great chance for them to truly live up to that claim in a fashion that would surprise everybody.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

The truth is that if The Powers sought my opinion on this (in terms of making changes), they would have engaged me formally and done it months ago. And if they wanted a focus group for feedback before finalizing, it would have happened well before the replacement program was announced. Despite what some have said, I believe they instituted the program because fundamentally restoring Rugolo was important beyond the bottom line. It was important to fans. Now it's left for those fans, individually, to decide after viewing the new set for themselves whether CBS/P has let them down.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I was speaking with someone who I consider a very knowledgeable person when it comes to the industry as a whole just last night about the CBS Fugitive release and re-release. He made a great point about the potential "why" of CBS doing this. He said the real kicker was probably the Variety article. That's something that's read by everyone in the industry and it undoubtedly made CBS feel sheepish about the incident. We can also thank advocates like Gord, and Jon Burlingame's article for FMS, for some wonderful editorials. That helped a lot. But it was probably the larger, more "influential", Variety article that Burlingame published that pushed CBS to feel they needed to do something to get the egg off their face as much as anything else. Now, that's just my friend's opinion without having spoken to anyone at the top of CBS/P, but it sure rung true to my ears.

If only we could get them to let us in on their thinking with the CBS Library cues, I'd be truly happy. I just wish they felt they could be a little more forthcoming with info of that nature. As consumers I don't understand why we couldn't be given a few facts about it.

Gary "hope my replacement discs get here soon - can't wait to watch" O.

P.S. None of what I've written above takes away from the effort of many fans who wrote letters, made calls, returned merchandise, or emailed the studio with well worded messages. There's no doubt that stuff helped the cause. As did any and all editorials. My friend was simply saying that the Variety article was the real "biggie" in the entire thing because it is read by so many within the industry. Hard for me to disagree with that assessment. Take care, everyone.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I agree completely about the "Variety" article, Gary. IMO that one article was worth as much as all the collective outcry from "Fugitive" fans. The only thing that might have trumped it perhaps would have been a Jon Burlingame conducted interview with "Fuge" Post-Production Supervisor/Music Editor John Elizalde, who is still alive and kicking at a spry 83 years of age.

Mr. Elizalde really did so much to enhance one's enjoyment of not only "The Fugitive", but also "Rawhide", "The Outer Limits" and most of the Quinn Martin series, including S1 of the "The Invaders". If he was never even sought out by Paramount execs where the S2 music rights issue is concerned, that is truly ashame.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

It was also mentioned in the TV section of Entertainment Weekly several months ago, which has an even greater circulation and 'consumer' readership than Variety. I sent a letter to the editors of EW reminding them of their blurb on the fan outrage over S2V1, and the link to the replacement program. I'll be curious if they re-address it.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I also agree with Gary's source about the impact of that Variety article. If that's the case as it sounds like it is, then that's ironic that it takes something that is read primarily by industry personnel and not the fanbase, ie consumers, to motivate a studio to correct an issue such as the case with the Fugitive sound replacement.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Gary, your friend's comments do make a lot of sense. And like you an explanation about keeping the TZ and other CBS cues out of the replacement sets would be helpful to me. I mean, if there is a reasonable explanation, that would probably help many fans deal with this better. Without knowing the facts, we're left to speculate, and many of our conclusions indicate there was no good reason for keeping those other cues out.