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post #211 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
Perhaps not as BIG of an issue, but music rights have caused problems in home video even back in the VHS days.

I recall several old Universal titles that had that "HOME VIDEO VERSION, SOME MUSIC HAS BEEN RESCORED" legend on them, like Spielberg's 1941.

There was an issue in the STAR TREK tapes of "Goodnight Sweetheart" being removed from "City On The Edge Of Forever".

And I'm sure there were others - but you're right, it's all been brought to a fever pitch in the age of DVDs. Everyone wants a piece of whatever pies are out there.

Harry

I didn't know that Harry. Is the "Goodnight Sweetheart" restored on the DVD sets now?
post #212 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLKINSER
I didn't know that Harry. Is the "Goodnight Sweetheart" restored on the DVD sets now?

Yes. The DVDs have the proper music restored.

What's odd about that particular episode and those particular tapes is that I've owned two different iterations of "City On The Edge Of Forever" on VHS. There was an early one released in the very early days of home video, and the later issue in the '80s when all of the episodes came out.

I'd heard from others about the music substitution and yet, for some odd reason, my tapes both had the "Goodnight Sweetheart" cue in them. To this day, I've never heard the substituted music, yet many Trekkie types were plagued by it for years, and have told me how awful the substituted music was.

Harry
post #213 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
Yes. The DVDs have the proper music restored.

What's odd about that particular episode and those particular tapes is that I've owned two different iterations of "City On The Edge Of Forever" on VHS. There was an early one released in the very early days of home video, and the later issue in the '80s when all of the episodes came out.

I'd heard from others about the music substitution and yet, for some odd reason, my tapes both had the "Goodnight Sweetheart" cue in them. To this day, I've never heard the substituted music, yet many Trekkie types were plagued by it for years, and have told me how awful the substituted music was.

Harry

Well, then there is hope that one day The Fugitive will one day fare the same origianl treatment.
post #214 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

There was also the bizzare case of a cue moved from Star Trek's DOOMSDAY MACHINE, a cut composed for the episode, when it was released in the 40 volume set. I notified Paramount about it, as I'm sure others did, and the cue was replaced for the season sets (but the mix of MENAGERIE is still funky on the new TOS-remastered HD season one--hopefully it will fixed for the Blu-Ray).

Harry, they not only substituted the music on CITY that was on the radio, but when Kirk prevents McCoy from saving Edith, when they cut to the CU of Shatner's pained face, they brought a riff from the radio replacement music back in a misguided attempt to provide some kind of unity.

It was truly horrible.
post #215 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLKINSER
I wonder why NU Ventures didn't have any of the music issues rights problems? I wish we could get a hold of the guy who ran Nu Ventures, Alan Grossman. I spoke with him once and he seemed like a very nice fellow. I would love to hear from him on this.

Read about Barry Morse's experiences with Nu Ventures in his book, "Pulling Faces, Making Noises"
Here's a link that lets you preview the 2 pages about Nu Ventures:
Pulling Faces, Making Noises: A Life ... - Google Book Search
See last paragraph of P. 368 and top of p.369.
post #216 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clugul
Read about Barry Morse's experiences with Nu Ventures in his book, "Pulling Faces, Making Noises"
Here's a link that lets you preview the 2 pages about Nu Ventures:
Pulling Faces, Making Noises: A Life ... - Google Book Search
See last paragraph of P. 368 and top of p.369.


THAT IS SAD! What a ripp off!
post #217 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Hey fellas, I'm new to the site, but have been posting stuff about "The Fugitive" music changes over on IMDb. I'd like to share my latest posting here:

Quote:
A little more information has surfaced on the music in the replacement discs. A dude over on Home Theater Forum who has access to sample copies says cues from The Twilight Zone are still missing, replaced with Heyes synthesizer music. This really makes no sense when CBS owns the rights to those cues. He estimates that 75 percent to 80 percent of the original music has been restored, but that apparently CBS replaced a lot of stuff it undoubtedly owns. Yeah, it's not Rugolo, but the music from the The Twilight Zone was used heavily in many episodes to great effect, so hopefully CBS rectifies this issue in subsequent DVD releases.

Now, the guy on HTF didn't have access to all the episodes included on the replacement discs, and he didn't view all of the episodes yet that he does have access to, so maybe this problem is limited to only a couple shows? I guess we'll find out. Also, it was suggested that the check discs may not be the finalized versions people will be getting in the mail over the next few months.

I can say this -- there were some episodes from the first season that lived on Twilight Zone music, and I couldn't imagine those episodes without it. If anything has become clear in this saga, it has to be that CBS has been getting bad legal advice. Also, they need to find better experts who are able to identify these music cues. The only cues that were in question were those from the Capitol Music Library, and the amount used in the series was minimal. It makes you wonder whether the reason to replace some CBS-owned music on the replacement discs was to cover the butt of the person responsible for the debacle in the first place. If, for instance, it turned out that the amount of questionable cues in the entire second season totaled about three minutes, there would have been no justification whatsoever for hiring Heyes. With the tremendous outcry from fans after the release of S2V1, CBS had to act. But it would have really displeased the boss if he/she were to find out Heyes' services were completely unnecessary. So what do you do? You "pretend" there are more questionable cues than there really are to justify hiring Heyes. This way, his music was still "necessary" to fill in some spots on the replacement sets and, presumably, S2V2 sets.

It is all pure speculation on my part, but it is what popped into my mind after reading HTF earlier. They do say your initial instincts about something are usually correct. But, hey, they are trying and deserve props.

I'd like to add to that a perfect example of an episode from Season One that would have been destroyed if the TZ music had been removed: "See Hollywood and Die."

That episode was loaded with cues from the TZ episode "Dead Man's Shoes," and would have been ruined if they were removed. There was more TZ music in that episode than Rugolo.

In my opinion, CBS has got to get this issue fixed. If it decided to address the problem, why do a half-assed job? It really makes no sense.
post #218 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by jquirk
I'd like to add to that a perfect example of an episode from Season One that would have been destroyed if the TZ music had been removed: "See Hollywood and Die."

That episode was loaded with cues from the TZ episode "Dead Man's Shoes," and would have been ruined if they were removed. There was more TZ music in that episode than Rugolo.

In my opinion, CBS has got to get this issue fixed. If it decided to address the problem, why do a half-assed job? It really makes no sense.

First off, welcome Jim.

Secondly, that's a great write-up at IMDb. I believe you've captured the essence of everything that has been going on for the last week around here.

Thirdly, let me "amen" you about that excellent example from "See Hollywood and Die". That was one of my favorite Season 1 eps and it wouldn't be the same without ALL the backscore. The CBS Library was/is a key component in the Fugitive music overall. I think many will see that and understand why some of us are hesitant about this latest development. We still give kudos to CBS for trying. But some of us aren't quite ready to declare the series fully back just yet.

Gary "the killer is that they do indeed own most of the music they are expunging - they just haven't been able to figure out what's what and the corp. lawyers are undoubtedly erring on the side of caution" O.
post #219 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

All I can say is, if "The Invaders" by Jerry Goldsmith done for The Twilight Zone was a CBS library cue as I thought it was, at least three places I heard on the discs I looked at have been changed. At least once each in MAN IN A CHARIOT, MAN ON A STRING, and ESCAPE INTO BLACK.

My intent was not to try and make a running list of each missing cue and from what library. My intent was to try and get a feel or a pattern for what has been changed, and give folks a heads up.

And for the record, I never declared the series fully back. I declared it 80% back. I don't know how much clearer I can be.
post #220 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carabimero
All I can say is, if "The Invaders" by Jerry Goldsmith done for The Twilight Zone was a CBS library cue as I thought it was, at least three places I heard on the discs I looked at have been changed. At least once each in MAN IN A CHARIOT, MAN ON A STRING, and ESCAPE INTO BLACK.

My intent was not to try and make a running list of each missing cue and from what library. My intent was to try and get a feel or a pattern for what has been changed, and give folks a heads up.

And for the record, I never declared the series fully back. I declared it 80% back. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

Carab, I never meant to insinuate that you said the series was back. My comments about that had nothing whatsoever to do with you and your excellent analysis of what you've viewed thus far. You have been perfectly clear about what is and is not in this upcoming set. And it's much appreciated. I was referring to some folks (not you) who seemed to be perfectly satisfied with what we will be getting with these replacement discs. My "not fully back" comment was in response to that mindset, not anything you've said.

Gary "take care, buddy" O.
post #221 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Add my vote to the point that this issue is not "fully restored" or "fully back to normal". Regardless of what we may think about the efforts of CBS/P, that apparently is not the case here. I know that some here are very happy with the recent re-issue developement with the restored Rugolo portions, and that's great for them. Not all of us here take that stance.

Jim, I want to add a "welcome" to the Bd and agree that your IMDB write-up was excellent. It brings up a theory that may indeed explain the "strangeness" of this whole music situation with this show. Regardless of what others may say about this issue, it's definitely a strange story, given the same cues that were removed for this show have remained intact in other show's releases.

Some here make a point that, as first-time viewers, the music subs should be a minor issue. That's not the case here. I've not seen this show until the recent DVD releases but there's an asterisk of sorts in my case as I'm a 'Boomer generation guy that was around during the 60's and collect other similar 60's shows with similar backscores. That's probably why this partially-restored, be it 80%, 60%, whatever portion, isn't the same as a fully-restored as-broadcast version of the show in a studio release.

Carab, add me to saying "Thanks" for your advance info on the issue. This helps us get an idea about what to expect when we receive the replacement sets.
post #222 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Cue Sheet

So people can get a better sense of what has been changed, I did a cue-by-cue breakdown of Act I of "Escape Into Black." I believe it is representative of the replacement mentality of the set.

Check Disc Cue Sheet

"Escape To Black" Act I

Teaser - original intact

Opening title - original intact

Act One bridge - original intact

Kimble Flashback outside café - Heyes

Café scene - original intact

Kitchen fire - original intact

Bridge to hospital - original intact

Kimble in hospital room - original intact

Kimble talking to doctors, blurry vision - Beginning intact, then Heyes replaces Rugolo in middle of scene where "The Invaders" by Goldsmith should be.

Ruskin tells Dr. Towne he's "an unusual man" - Heyes all the way, continuing to bridge the scene where Mrs. Ruskin first talks to Kimble

Kimble sees one-arm patient in hospital - original intact

Analysis:

So 8.5 of the cues are intact while 2.5 have been changed, with a pair of them surgical, meaning Rugolo is strumming along and Heyes is inserted midstream.

Conclusion:

A majority, if not all, were cues from The Twilight Zone. If CBS owns the rights to this music, it's very disappointing that they couldn't have found some way to keep it in.

But the numbers here support my estimate that eighty percent is intact. Some episodes may have a bit more replacement while shows like "Tug Of War" have way less, so I think eighty percent is a fair number.
post #223 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks for the warm welcome, fellas. Another theory as to why TZ cues may have been excluded from the replacement discs is because by including them, the Jerry Goldsmith estate could be due some royalty dollars. On the discs you have sampled, Carab, were you able to identify any TZ cues?

If they are all gone, it could be because of a royalty issue. CBS/P indicated after the release of S2V1 the decision was made to replace all of the music because otherwise the flow would be interrupted. The original Rugolo music during the opening and closing credits was kept, so one would assume Rugolo is receiving royalties on that set even though most of his stuff was cut.

When the decision was made to offer the replacement sets, CBS realized it would be no problem to throw the Rugolo cues back in because that wouldn't have an effect on the amount of royalty dollars Rugolo receives. However, by tossing back in the TZ stuff, or any other music from the CBS library, that would mean CBS would have to provide royalties to the Goldsmith estate and any other musicians who provided music that was included in those 15 episodes. The company had already paid Heyes for his music, so it probably didn't want to also have to pay the Goldsmith estate on top of that. For all anyone knows, Heyes could be receiving royalties on top of a flat fee. If such is the case, that's even a bigger reason why CBS would keep the TZ stuff out of the replacement discs.

With that in mind, it's possible S2V2 will be more like the first season sets. However, if Heyes had rescored those last 15 episodes before the kitchen sink hit the fan, then it's more likely that set will be similar to the TZ music-less replacement sets. Now, if some of the TZ music is in the replacement sets, then I go back to Theory A, which involves an unknown somebody trying to keep the boss happy.

Actually, I believe the musical fun for us fans will continue right down to the release of the fourth season DVD sets. That's when things are going to get real sticky. A lot of the music for that last season was snatched from "The Outer Limits." Unfortunately, neither CBS or Paramount own the rights to "The Outer Limits," MGM does.
post #224 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I wonder if Gord, or someone else on the board that has their contact info, could contact CBS/Paramount on our behalf and ask why the CBS cues are still cut out. I would like to hear from them and see what they say.
post #225 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I looked at the replacement program page and found an email where you can check on the status of your DVD's. I sent an email to this address and asked why the CBS cues and the song that was written for "Ballad for a Ghost" were still absent from the reissue DVDs? If they reply I will let you know what they say. Since it is an email to check on the status of your DVD's, I imagine they will tell me that I have the wrong address. In that case I asked them if I did, if they would give me the correct address to contact.
post #226 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

jquirk, see my conclusion section of post 222 for the answer to your question--and welcome to the boards.
post #227 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Carab, many thanks for that "Escape Into Black" breakdown of cues. I watched that one this weeked but it was the original show. I'll check out the S2V1 episode today.
post #228 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Yeah, I see that now Carab. What happened is, when I submitted my post earlier, your message wasn't on yet, but my post was held for a little bit because I'm new.

It's irritaing to learn all of the TZ music is gone. You would think one of the greatest TV shows of all time would have been treated a little bit better than this. My first exposure to this series was in the late 1980s or early 1990s when it ran on A&E. I remember recognizing it contained music from "The Twilight Zone," and how well that music fit in. It was exciting when the announcement finally came that this series was heading to DVD, and when it finally hit the shelves, fans like me could not have been more pleased. The picture was perfect, the acting suberb, the stories engrossing, the audio clear and the music just like I remembered. It was another stellar offering from CBS/Paramount, who I had come to believe were the best in putting old TV shows on DVD.

I introduced the series to my girlfriend, my son, my nephew, my brother, my mother -- they were all hooked. Who would have ever thought then the whole thing would get bogged down by this music controversy? I was more worried about the length of time passing between release of the volumes. My brother bought S2V1 immediately when it came out, but luckily I had a bunch of other things going on at the time so decided to hold off a couple weeks. He called me up after watching a few episodes and said that, while he enjoyed it, there was something odd about the second season he just couldn't put his finger on. He said there was something missing, and this was coming from a guy who never watched the series when it aired on television.

Not long after talking to my brother, I read the news on the Internet of what happened. As the months went by, I became angrier and angrier about the situation. (Of course, like everybody here this constituted only a small fraction of my life's daily frustrations). Finally, I came to accept that my days of watching "The Fugitive" had ended. I just could not bear to watch it without the music I was familiar with.

But out of the blue, CBS announces S2V2 is coming out. However, there's no word on whether there will be any changes to the music. Everyone assumes it will be more of the Heyes stuff, and the frustrations of the past months are reborn.

Then, a miracle. Much of the original music has been restored and S2V2 will be like the Season One volumes. But that's not all. CBS also will supply replacement discs for S2V1 that has the music restored. Rapture!

Then the details start to emerge. Carab is very optimistic at first, but you could sense his frustration grow with every posting. Like many of us here, he understands the importance of this series retaining its "Twilight Zone" cues. Sure, he believes the replacement discs are a vast improvement, but it is still not what Carab and other fans want. We could have lived with a few Capitol Music Library cues missing, but not the TZ ones.

Will I still buy it? It's too late. Upon reading the tvshowsondvd article, I immediately ordered S2V1 so I could send out for the replacement discs. I'll watch those 15 episodes but I'm certain every time the Heyes music kicks in I'll cringe. It will be like a miniscule shard of glass embedded in my heel that hurts like hell and is hard to remove. I'm sure many fans here will feel the same way.

If S2V2 suffers from the same problems, CBS needs to know -- again -- how badly they are letting down their customers. If the excuse for not including the TZ cues turns out to be CBS was unable to differentiate them from Capitol cues, that would be unacceptable. I can't understand a note of music but I'm still able to recognize when TZ music is used in "The Fugitive." If it's an economic excuse, i.e., CBS doesn't want to pay out any more royalties because it committed to Heyes, that is unacceptable, as well. After the duress caused to fans with S2V1, the problem should have been rectified 100 percent, not 80 percent. And if the reason turns out to be somebody was trying to cover his or her butt and keep the boss happy, that somebody ought to be fired. It would be a shame if all the fans of "The Fugitive" were subjected to Heyes music even on the replacement discs because somebody was trying to avoid getting in trouble at work.

One final thought. If there's such a big issue with the TZ cues, what about the Season One volumes? They're already on the shelves. Everybody already has them. If it was OK to include the TZ cues in the first two volumes, why not the rest of them? Again, none of this makes any sense.
post #229 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Willis
Carab, many thanks for that "Escape Into Black" breakdown of cues. I watched that one this weeked but it was the original show. I'll check out the S2V1 episode today.

Add me to the "thank you" list as well, Carab. I'll check your findings against my original copy either today or tomorrow and see if I can get a feel for how much I'll be able to tolerate. If the original TZ scores that were replaced seem particularly powerful to me, then that will let me know I may very well have a tough time with the replacements. If not, then I'm good to go.

Gary "since Rugolo was surely used a good 75% or more in each episode, it would only stand to reason that at least 75 - 80% of the score was restored, so good job on that estimate, Carab" O.
post #230 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
First off, welcome Jim.

Secondly, that's a great write-up at IMDb. I believe you've captured the essence of everything that has been going on for the last week around here.

Thirdly, let me "amen" you about that excellent example from "See Hollywood and Die". That was one of my favorite Season 1 eps and it wouldn't be the same without ALL the backscore. The CBS Library was/is a key component in the Fugitive music overall. I think many will see that and understand why some of us are hesitant about this latest development. We still give kudos to CBS for trying. But some of us aren't quite ready to declare the series fully back just yet.

Gary "the killer is that they do indeed own most of the music they are expunging - they just haven't been able to figure out what's what and the corp. lawyers are undoubtedly erring on the side of caution" O.

Gary,

Where is the write-up at IMDB?

Dave
post #231 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by buford2
Gary,

Where is the write-up at IMDB?

You can find his post right here, Dave.

Gary "until CBS/Paramount actually comes out and tells us otherwise, I'm going to believe the entire problem is exactly what Mr. Burlingame wrote back in August for the Film Music Society" O.
post #232 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thanks for the link Gary.

I just watched the TZ episodes "Back There" and "Walking Distance" to familiarize myself with some of the non-Rugulo cues. "Back There" has most of them. "Walking Distance" has a couple at the beginning and at the end. To me they are part of the heart of the series. They may have been written for TZ, but I associate them more with "The Fugitive". It may sound overly dramatic but these cues are so familiar to me, to lose them will completely ruin the experience. Thats just the way it is. I truly hope the bulk of them are restored.

Dave
post #233 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

In "Nicest Fella You'd Ever Want to Meet", can someone tell me if the short cue when Kimble is knocking on the door of Tom Skerritts sisters house to tell her about Joe Bob is Rugulo? Thats one of my favorite cues.

Thanks,

Dave
post #234 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLKINSER
THAT IS SAD! What a ripp off!

Doesn't surprise me - a friend of mine did research for Nu Ventures back in the mid-1990's and never got paid.
post #235 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Ok, I just watched the first act of "Escape into Black" to check out the scenes Carab mentioned. The Invaders music is used so much in this show that's going to be a hard one to forget. What I probably need to do now is go to the discs with the Heyes' music on them and skip to the appropriate parts and see if it still bothers me. That's what I'll do next.

Gary "boy this is really gut-wrenching on several levels" O.
post #236 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Ok, just watched "Escape into Black" (the first act) on the original CBS/P disc. The Heyes score isn't horrible in those spots, but obviously it's not as good as the original CBS Library cues that were used, IMHO. It's hard to get a read on how I'll feel without hearing everything in sequence, so I'm just going to have to wait for the replacement discs to get an accurate read.

I'll say this much though. I'm sure glad we got the original back for that last scene of Act I when Kimble faints. That was not a good replacement cue at all. And then when Act II started up I almost fell out of my seat it was so bad.

Gary "now it's just a matter of waiting..." O.
post #237 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Quote:
Originally Posted by jquirk
If S2V2 suffers from the same problems, CBS needs to know -- again -- how badly they are letting down their customers. If the excuse for not including the TZ cues turns out to be CBS was unable to differentiate them from Capitol cues, that would be unacceptable. I can't understand a note of music but I'm still able to recognize when TZ music is used in "The Fugitive." If it's an economic excuse, i.e., CBS doesn't want to pay out any more royalties because it committed to Heyes, that is unacceptable, as well. After the duress caused to fans with S2V1, the problem should have been rectified 100 percent, not 80 percent. And if the reason turns out to be somebody was trying to cover his or her butt and keep the boss happy, that somebody ought to be fired. It would be a shame if all the fans of "The Fugitive" were subjected to Heyes music even on the replacement discs because somebody was trying to avoid getting in trouble at work.

One final thought. If there's such a big issue with the TZ cues, what about the Season One volumes? They're already on the shelves. Everybody already has them. If it was OK to include the TZ cues in the first two volumes, why not the rest of them? Again, none of this makes any sense.

Jim, that whole post of yours was great! Seriously, you summed up everything very nicely.

I've isolated a couple of points you made so that I could comment on them. I agree wholeheartedly with you about how and why the CBS Library (aka TZ) cues were still left out. There's a great article online that I linked earlier in this thread that really sheds a bunch of light on the issue. But the bottom line is that had CBS tried, they surely could have gotten someone into the studios that would have picked out the CBS cues for them versus the Capitol cues. I can't imagine it would have been that hard. I honestly wonder if what you said about them already going to the trouble of paying Heyes and all wasn't a reason they only came back with the Rugolo music. After all, someone still had to come in and tell them what was and wasn't Rugolo music. It couldn't have been that hard to do the same with the CBS Library cues, which they do own the rights to. I don't know if it was about someone "covering their butts", as you say. Just don't know. But it is puzzling that they'd go part of the way without just going all the way. We may never get a straight answer to that one.

I think what happened with the 1st Season sets is that it slipped by them that the Capitol cues were there. Some where along the line they realized it and then maybe panicked and that's what led to the wholesale changes for Season 2. It's a matter of the horse already being out of the barn when it comes to Season 1. Not much they can do about that. But they obviously felt they didn't want to chance anything more by going the same route with Season 2, so they did the replacement music.

The bottom line is that we know for sure they own the rights to the TZ type cues. Those are CBS property. It's only a truly minuscule amount of Capitol Music cues that are in question. Such a shame that they didn't sift through the episodes and determine the least they had to cut out. I do believe that had they gone that route (either the first time or with these replacements) almost every single Fugitive fan would have been satisfied. I know I would have.

Gary "and once more, for the record, yes I'm happy they at least made this effort (that's just in case someone wants to jump on me for not being grateful)" O.
post #238 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Let me just say that I am still optimistic for this set. I'm disappointed, as I've said, but my very first review made it clear the Twilight Zone material was gone. I'm no more disappointed now than I was then, except maybe then I was holding out hope they were isolated cuts even though I knew in my heart they weren't. It is what it is: Fugitive with Rugolo minus the rest (even though I still have to qualify it as I have not analyzed every second of each show like I did act one of "Escape"--part of me still clings to the hope something from CBS and/or Capitol remains, through oversight if nothing else).

Have a good day everyone. The Academy Awards are calling, so I'll post again either late tonight or tomorrow.
post #239 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

For the record, I'm not mad. Don't want anyone to think that. I'd be lying through my teeth though if I didn't say I was perhaps disappointed that we didn't get a more complete restoration. Until I hear otherwise, I will always believe the FMS report that it was only the Capitol cues that were in question, and that had enough time and energy been devoted to this we could have seen about 95% of the original music stay intact in these episodes. So I am disappointed that things have turned out the way they have. But I for one am not angry nor do I advocate anything other than offering thanks to CBS for at least making this effort. I guess if I had the power I'd love to get the message through to whoever makes the decisions at CBS that maybe they could at least try and find a way to discern which cues were which. That would be my only request - at least try and find out. But I'm not angry. And I am willing to give the replacement discs a whirl.

Gary "I hope folks here can find a common ground and don't feel like they have to come down heavy in favor of one 'side' or the other (studio vs. fan) because I don't think it need be that way" O.
post #240 of 937

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I just wanted to make an addendum to a previous post. Goldsmith was not the only one who provided music to "The Twilight Zone." There were several other artists, as well, including Bernard Herrmann and Van Cleave.

Another thing that will be interesting to find out is whether the Season One volumes contained in the four-volume box set of "The Fugitive," which is also being released on March 31, will be the same music-wise as the first DVD release. I mean, if the music, including TZ music, is such an issue, wouldn't it behoove CBS to replace TZ cues from "The Fugitive" in this second release of the first season? If not, that makes this whole situation an even bigger head scratcher. If so, however, I wonder if CBS will offer a replacement program for those volumes so we fans can get Season One copies that have Heyes music inserted over TZ cues?

By the way, Gary, I laughed my head off over your comment about the Heyes music being so bad in one spot that you almost fell off your chair.
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