A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray - Page 3

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Amadeus is the most disappointing blu-ray / HD experience I've had. For a film of this magnitude, I am hoping they offer some kind of trade-in option. I'd rather have a great HD release of Amadeus than maybe any other movie, because to me it represents the pinnacle of what film and drama can achieve. Watching this disc made me pause the film several times trying to figure out what is wrong with my TV/player/HDMI signal.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Wasn't the HD master made in the early years of Hi-def? I thought the SD Director's Cut was made from a "new, Hi-Definition" transfer. If the lower resolution of SD masks these faults, there's no reason to upgrade, except for possibly the audio.

Disappointed to say the least.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Arse! This is such a letdown. Amadeus is in my opinion the best film ever and one I was eagerly awaiting on blu-ray. I guess I'll continue to wait for a better release.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

I think that's what I appreciated in the transfer. The opera sequences in particular have beautifully saturated color. On a second viewing, I had more issues with the image, especially in the dark scenes. And the opening dance sequence(while Salieri is being taken to the hospital) looks very desaturated, much drabber and less colorful than I remember it on other viewings(via the old Pioneer widescreen laserdisc).

I still think it's passable(I'm watching it on an 84" screen with a newly purchased Sanyo 1080p pj). But it's nowhere near as good as it can be.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

How disappointing that film which could have been so spectacular (as I would have expected) is given such inferior treatment. Too bad I preordered and only now saw the review. In the future I will have to be much more particular about Warner releases on account of this and other concerns about their product. Fortunately, there seems to be little reason to continue preordering any Warner release as Amazon seems not to change their prices after release week.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

In fact, Larry, Amazon has dropped their price on Amadeus to $14.99 in the second week of this title's release (price-matching Best Buy's price for the week). Amazon had the disc priced at $26.99 on release week (2-10-09).

It'll probably go back up to that price (or something near it) next week.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Well I must say I thought Amadeus looked pretty good. Granted I only watched the first 30 minutes or so...

I just bought the new JVC RS20/HD750 projector and it's reported by owners of this ( and I can verify) that the RS20 certainly doesn't hide or mask film grain...maybe even exasberate it.

That said, I thought it looked pretty filmlike and MUCH better than I expected based on this thread.

Wonderful film and I if it wasn't so late I wouldve watched the entire thing.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

this should apply to any movie that gets released on blu-ray. i don't mind a clean before scanning but they should stop using all their digital magic to clean things up that make things look bad in the end.

it's a shame that amadeus is another fubar release on blu-ray.

another thing that really bugs me are these book cases warner uses on many catalog releases. warner stop doing that and use proper amarays!!!

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Nice. They charged me the full $26.99. I guess that puts the lie to their claim to protect their customers placing pre-orders. Oh, yeah, they did give me a $0.50 refund. How generous.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Amadeus was released on Tuesday 2/10. At that time, Amazon charged $26.99, so all pre-orders were charged that price. They did not drop their price to $14.99 until Sunday 2/15 to match Best Buy's advertised price.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

I guess all reviews should compare titles other versions ,so I wish RH
would include if the BR is better than the dvd,even if he thinks it could
be better.

For the 15 dollars they were selling it for,with its book design and cd,its
a deal,I haven't looked at it yet,The last version I saw was on HDNet
I don't know which version that was,or whats different about the directors
Cut.

as for grain,and grain reduction making things not look like film,all I can
say is ,Most 35mm photos they blow up look grainey,Yet 8x10 contact prints
look great,No one would ever say those contact prints don't look like
film,
Grain is not a good thing,Watching the New "Pierre Le Fou "dvd really surpised
me with how great it looked for a film done at that time,It helped that
it was shot mostly outdoors,But the earlier transfer had more grain and
was pretty crappy looking
because most older color films done at that time had a lot more
grain. One wonders if they removed it for that title,if so great!

If they can't remove the grain so the picture is an improvement then
they shouldn't do it.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

If the original source has visible grain, that should be retained as much as possible, or else it becomes something...else...

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

I just looked at it ,and maybe it could be better but this is the best I have
seen it ,I get your point,But I don't remember it looking better,But that
doesn't mean I am right
The lighting is too bright for my taste at times,Miroslav Ondrícek is a fine
cameraman ,but I don't recall if he won the award
I do know that art Direction award should have gone to Dune.

I wonder what they are doing to woodstock

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Nothing to be afraid of. Warner is handling Woodstock just like they handled Bonnie and Clyde and other fine presentations. Warner didn't handle Amadeus.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Wow.

Was checking out my review copy (which arrived late of course) for Amadeus and my initial hopeful glee turned to sad disappointment.

"Patton Like" was precisely the phrase that went through my mind. A Blurry, soft-focus/over-filtered/digitally processed mess that looks BETTER than the DVD (of course), but a far cry from anything that reflect the look of the film elements.

Sigh.

Glad you all said something too. Think Warner has a chance to do this one right? Does anyone have any inside scoop on what went on? Why would WB release in this manner even if they were given the master... couldn't they have waited? LOTS of movies needing to come out on Blu-ray, this 50GB run could have gone to something that really did justice to the film elements while WB waited to get the chance to do a proper film scan sans the horrible processing.



anyone up for putting some pressure on the studio to revisit this title and do it right?

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

I remain a bit confused. How can this really be "BETTER than the DVD (of course)" and yet "horrible" for a BD at the same time??

Wish I can at least see some footages of it (in full res) for myself before spending the $15+tax on it, but the prices will probably jump back up by the time I could rent it for a spin. I suppose I can always just put it on eBay or something, if I can't stand it.

How does it compare to say Trading Places and The Untouchables? Is the DNR+EE mess very similar to those two? OR is it much closer to The Life of Brian (or Dark City)? I could probably live w/ the latter I guess, but not the former.

Thanks.

_Man_

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

If a Blu-ray disc looked just like a great DVD... say, like the Fifth element super-bit, it would look GREAT by DVD standards but look BAD by Blu-ray Standards. Come to think of it, that's just what happened: the original 5 E BD looked better than the DVD, but was still pretty *bad* in comparison to what real HD transfer should have obtained.

No one seemed confused when we talked about that title. Why is Amadeus any different?

1080p has six times the resolution of 480p. What's acceptable, or even laudable, by 480p standards isn't good enough to justify a studio taking our money and hogging replication lines given 1080p standards.



DVDbeaver had some shots but not sure if they were full res. But looking at them having seem the BD projected at 100 inches, I think they give a good idea, so check out dvdbeaver.


It's worse than Dark City... more like Patton. I haven't seen T.P. or U. on BD so I can't comment.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

I guess what's confusing to me is that there are quite some BDs (like Trading Places, Untouchables, XXX, et al) that look a fair bit *worse* than most good quality DVDs, IMHO.

So does this Amadeus BD look better than the best DVDs out there? OR are you just saying the old DVD (which version?) is so poor that this BD is of course better, but would actually be inferior to some of the best DVDs???

BTW, my question is not only directed to you, David, but to the general sentiment I see from a few others, which is echoed in your comment.

Hmmm... Just saw your additional comments. I never bothered w/ Patton though I do have Dark City. The screen grabs at DVD Beaver seem to be only 850x360 -- unless my browser is not rendering correctly -- so pretty useless in determining PQ.

Thanks again for your help on this...

_Man_

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Got it.


The Amadeus is pretty disappointing, IMO, even in regards to some of the best DVDs. It's "clean", but it's soft-focus and plastic to the point that there are some DVD titles that look crisper and more film-like. I've seen DVDs which convey a more realistic sense of textures than what I see on the Amadeus BD. DNR is a weird thing... it's hard to put your finger on exactly what's wrong as often you can see "details" that you gather are more detailed than DVD, yet textures somehow look blurry and less realistic. However, Amadeus does show better compression than DVD with more stable backgrounds and a better color palette... which is why it's so hard to compare what's "better" as it's a give and take. The DVD version of Amadeus looks like the BD only with even less detail.

I'd say by DVD standards the BD image would be impressive, though not the best you'd ever seen. However, by 1080p standards, it's a let-down... ESPECIALLY given what film this is: Amadeus!

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

I'm going to purely speculate here as I don't have inside information, nor have I even viewed the disc yet.

I think Warner decided to just use an older master (2002?) and decided this title wasn't in the same classic realm as upcoming titles such as Gone With The Wind, etc. which are/have been going through major re-work.

In addition, given the terrible economic conditions that are not going to resolved anytime soon, I fear unless it's a big blockbuster catalog title or ultimate classic, many other titles will suffer similar fate as Amadeus. I just don't think the studios are going to be doing new masters for most catalog titles anytime soon in order to minimize costs unless it's a huge title which they think will sell very well. All we can do is keep our fingers crossed that an older master was done at least fairly well (minimal or no DNR and EE) for a particular, upcoming title.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Again, not Warner, but The Saul Zaentz Company.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Interesting...I don't recall One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - another SZC production released by WB - looking overly processed on Blu. Wonder what went wrong here? A change of guard...?

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Yes, but doesn't the buck start and stop still with Warner?

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Well, this is an easy port of the special edition dvd to begin with. It's cheaper for them to do this, than to start all over again on every title they have. I'm certain Amadeus will be re-released as a decent BD at one point. For one thing: the Theatrical Cut is still missing. It's just a matter of when?

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

There are conflicting impulses at work. First, there is the clamour for more catalogue titles. Second, there is the cost of making them BD ready. Third, there is a balance between releasing a lot of titles to meet pent-up demands (at the cost of letting some sub-par transfers slip by) vs. a more patient approach that, by its nature, makes some people grumble impatiently at the lack of catalogue titles. Add to the mix an economic downturn where EVERY company is re-thinking where and how to spend its dollars and you get an increase of "well, it's good enough for most people, and few who will really care are too small a margin to be profitable". (This is not aimed at any one studio in particular.)

Until the economy turns around, I believe we'll see more "it's good enough" releases than we otherwise might and, consequently, it could be many years before better versions are released (I mean this broadly--I'm sure a select few titles will be refurbished and re-released sooner AND I'm sure a select few titles will be given the "royal treatment" [Lawrence of Arabia, Ben-Hur and North by Northwest are among those I hope will receive such treatment]). So then it become a matter of individual priorities. For many, "better than SD DVD" will be a sufficient reason to pick up a title that does not meet the loftier standards held by people like RAH (who are quite qualified to make such judgements). For others, compromise will not be in the equation. And, I believe, a third group will emerge (I include myself in this one) who, on a case by case basis, will decide that a particular title is flawed yet still "better than SD DVD" and, for the right price, will live with the flaws and upgrade later (the basic "better than SD DVD" crowd likely would not upgrade later, as I see it). The third group will be less tolerant than the first yet more tolerant than the second of flaws (whatever they may be).

Just my 2 cents.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

^ Well said, Paul.

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Yep. I'm probably in that 3rd group that Paul described. That's why I'm asking so much about Amadeus (even though I had previously passed on Patton). I just don't wanna end up w/ something like Trading Places or XXX just because I settled w/ the attractive $15 price tag -- I actually only paid like $8-9 for those others (and had never owned XXX before).

From the sound of it, maybe Amadeus is actually a lot like Pan's Labyrinth, which I do own. If so, I guess I could probably live w/ that for $15 -- though it still sucks to not get the theatrical cut included. It also doesn't help that we have no idea when/if they will ever redo this title and give it the kind of classic treatment it deserves.

_Man_

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Alright. I caved on this one (and ordered it along w/ a couple others from Amazon) after checking out Xylon's screen grabs over on AVS. It'll probably look good enough on my 61" RPTV from 9-to-10ft away. Judging from the screen grabs, it's probably no worse than Dark City (in terms of DNR+EE) -- and at least won't have the occasional jarringly blurry/soft extra shots of Jennifer Connelley thrown in -- and might actually be somewhat better than Pan's Labyrinth. One indoor screen grab (the last one? w/ the Emperor and his court advisors) does look overcooked to the point of being almost like Trading Places, but not quite that bad.

The old DVD is really that bad though, which makes holding out rather difficult even though this BD does not include the theatrical cut. Maybe we should all write Warner about this, especially those of us who actually bought the thing, so they know that we're not happy about this subpar release. Then again, if they're really reading this site, especially RAH's review thread, maybe that'll do...

_Man_

Re: A few words about...™ Amadeus -- in Blu-ray

Mine arrived today along with Gandhi, booklet, cd package is itself worth $15, film is free.