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What can we do about Warner Bros? - Page 2

post #31 of 169
2/16/09 at 11:01am

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

My gripes with WB's Blu Rays is the fact they are DNR'ing their films to death... the suits don't understand film at all.

Also They are becoming the worst on releases in general with disc usage. It is really embarrasing to know films like Getway get about 16/17GB of disc space and other studios would've given a film with its running time sometimes of 30-35GBs of space. It is really sad.

Amadeus is sad... I thought Poltergiest was gonna be great it was medicore... I saw screen grabs of the prev DVD that had more detail of dirt etc in some scenes! When you do the noise reduction You eat away at the film grain ... and guess what film grain contains the actual image!

At least Best Buy has Amadeus for 14.99 this week I am taking in my receipt and getting the diffence back I will put that money towards Kramer VS Kramer... I hear sony kept the grain and it looks amazing!


Oh I also detest the way they hardly ever use the original WB logo for the 70's early 80's on all releases. If you want to shwo the new log first do so but start the film the way it originally started. It is really distracting to see this new golden pristine logo in front of a more classic 70's film. It is just tacky. They must hate that Saul Bass logo over at WB's.
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post #32 of 169
2/16/09 at 11:14am
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john a hunter
Then just hit the chapter search button to go back to the beginning and then away you go.

Why? I shouldn't have to!

I didn't in the cinema this afternoon...
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post #33 of 169
2/16/09 at 11:15am
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Whitford
And when you have a nice hometheater with dimmable lights and remotes that do macros which dim them and start the movie why should you have to explain to your guests why you had to start the movie over or why you had to bring the menu up (because a PS3 doesnt have an audio button )? It is a hassle and also takes away from the whole experience. The wow factor is gone. Guests or not.

TOTALLY. EXACTLY.
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post #34 of 169
2/16/09 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafink
So then it's a remote issue, not a disc issue, isn't it?

No it's entirely a disc issue! The way that Warner Bros designs their discs makes it unnecessarily fiddly to watch a movie.

When that first frame of footage appears and that first note of the score strikes I don't want a single thing to distract me until that final closing credit disappears off the screen. I certainly don't want to think "Oh shit, I forgot, it's a WB title, better get that menu up, or change that audio option".

EVERY OTHER STUDIO lets me watch a movie uninterrupted from start to finish without having to back it up to the start.

DVD lets me do this.

Why is it what Warner Bros. Blu-ray Discs don't?
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post #35 of 169
2/16/09 at 11:43am

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

You could just pause the disc when the film starts, and then change the audio. It's not that difficult, and you can still see the film uninterrupted.
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post #36 of 169
2/16/09 at 12:10pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powell&Pressburger
My gripes with WB's Blu Rays is the fact they are DNR'ing their films to death... the suits don't understand film at all.
Having met some of the "suits" in question, I can assure you that they do understand film. So do the folks at MPI, Warner's in-house transfer facility, one of the premiere such facilities in the world.

As for the DNR issue, I addressed it in the second post in this thread. Your blanket statement is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
I didn't in the cinema this afternoon...
True, but if you're going to use that argument, at the cinema you also didn't remove a disc from its case, insert it into a player and press close. The goal of HT may be to reproduce the theatrical experience as closely as possible, but certain details will always be different.

What you're learning is that this issue isn't as important to everyone else as it is to you. I can understand why this might be disappointing, because it's really the only issue left from your initial list that's exclusive to Warner.
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post #37 of 169
2/16/09 at 1:11pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
Sorry, but this isn't accurate. The DD track must be included separately. This was not the case with TrueHD on HD DVD, because on HD DVD TrueHD was a mandatory format and all players had to support at least a 2-track output from it, via S/PDIF. The Blu-ray spec has no such requirement.

The TrueHD track will play back the lossy core at 2.0 if that is how you have it set up. I've done it literally dozens of times, on Warner titles.

You do not need a separate DD track. I've even confirmed this with acquaintances who have extensive experience in authoring of Blu-ray discs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
This is how Sony does their menus. Unless Sony is making BRs that don't conform to spec (which would be surprising), they do their TrueHD tracks the same way Warner does.

Sony almost always has only one English audio track, and it's TrueHD. Just off the top of my head, titles such as National Security, Immortal Beloved, and Frozen River are all like this.

Perhaps we're thinking of two different things, Michael? While it may not be a required spec of BD to playback TrueHD at 2.0, I have yet to come across a disc that doesn't allow it, especially Warner titles.
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post #38 of 169
2/16/09 at 1:13pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powell&Pressburger
Amadeus is sad...
I thought Amadeus looks and sounds exceptional.
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post #39 of 169
2/16/09 at 1:19pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

I love Warners BluRays (and DVDs). I think they are some of the best out there.

Personally, I love having the movie start right up. Plus the menu is a simple "1 click" away.

I threw the Ratatouille BD on the other day, and I swear there were at least 15 to 20 different blasts of Disney Blu Ray fanfare, patting themselves on the back, previews, warnings and other crap.

Can you imagine if every time we wanted to listen to a CD we had to toggle through all of that to hear the music?
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post #40 of 169
2/16/09 at 1:21pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
I thought Amadeus looks and sounds exceptional.


It does but it could've been better.. we didn't need DNR and it could used more disc space. Raging Bull pumps out high mbps then Amadeus.. Most of the time Amadeus was sitting anywhere from 11mbps to about 18 if that... That is NOT quality that is just getting out product with out high quality standards.

It could and should've been a better release. They should strive for the best quality in their films. It looks way better than DVD, but it deserved better. I honestly think they are doing low disc storage on their films now so later on they can parade higher bit rate discs and resale them.
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post #41 of 169
2/16/09 at 1:42pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powell&Pressburger
I I honestly think they are doing low disc storage on their films now so later on they can parade higher bit rate discs and resale them.

Sony tried that with Superbit DVD's. They weren't that big of sellers because they took out the extras which is what the general public wanted.

Honestly, I feel that Warner Brothers is doing a phenominal Job with Their Blu-ray's just with the given fact that they all have Lossless Audio. (except the early blu's like Goodfella's and The ROad Warrior) BUt you have to admit that for a studio releasing such wonderful classic films like BOnnie and Clyde, Casablanca, and most of Kubricks biggest hits at such a point of infancy with this new format really shows that Warner's knows who the main demo for HIgh-Def Video really is...The good ol Laserdisc consumer from the 90's.

Remember the side flips on those? Did we complain about that? No! We kept on buying them at the premium price of $39.99. I can live with the minor inconvenience of having to switch the audio from DD to Lossless. I did it with DVD's switching from DD to DTS!
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post #42 of 169
2/16/09 at 1:58pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafink
So then it's a remote issue, not a disc issue, isn't it?
No if the disc defaulted to True HD everything would be fine. Missed the rest of the thread did you?
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post #43 of 169
2/16/09 at 2:12pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Always looking forward to WB's releases but at the same time hoping they do them justice... I want My Fair Lady badly... but would be afraid they'd use about 28GBs of a 50GB disc for the feature and use about 10 more GBs for the extras. The film will just be ok looking... My worst nightmare.
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post #44 of 169
2/16/09 at 2:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
What you're learning is that this issue isn't as important to everyone else as it is to you. I can understand why this might be disappointing, because it's really the only issue left from your initial list that's exclusive to Warner.

But it doesn't make everybody else right. Hell, the James Bond "ultimate edition" cock ups weren't important to many people, but they were still cock-ups which, thankfully, have so far been addressed and corrected on the BD releases! (Thanks for the patronising tone there by the way, appreciated - not!)

Come on, SURELY you can't really say that what Warner requires us to do is good. Surely! Let's switch it around. If every Warner title from tomorrow defaulted to the TrueHD track, meaning that the movie just started and you had to do NOTHING, would you be pleased?

I mean it makes no sense to default to an inferior audio track. No sense at all. Not when there's no obvious way to correct it before the movie starts.

If you browse through various other forums you'll see a lot of people have been disappointed by the sound quality on THE DARK KNIGHT because they simply didn't know that they weren't listening to the Dolby TrueHD track! If they're using their player to decode the audio (as I do) there's no way of seeing what you're listening to! How are they to know that Warner Bros is encouraging them to listen to the wrong track right out of the box?

And as for my other points - so what if other studios are guilty of those things too? It doesn't mean that Warner Bros isn't!
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post #45 of 169
2/16/09 at 2:24pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Hopefully films like My Fair Lady will get at least a 2-disc SE with one disc the film only, let's make the best of the disc space available no short cuts.
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post #46 of 169
2/16/09 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zackscott5
I can live with the minor inconvenience of having to switch the audio from DD to Lossless. I did it with DVD's switching from DD to DTS!

Not while the film was playing though I bet!
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post #47 of 169
2/16/09 at 2:54pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
And as for my other points - so what if other studios are guilty of those things too? It doesn't mean that Warner Bros isn't!
You've missed my point entirely.

You started this thread with at least one factual inaccuracy ("non-existant [sic]" extra features on Warner catalogue titles) and several gross mischaracterizations (DNR and EE on "many" Warner catalogue titles -- overlooking the many catalogue titles that don't have any -- and glitches that aren't fixed -- as if none ever are, e.g. Full Metal Jacket).

When these errors were noted, you had no response, which effectively means you conceded the points.

Factual sloppiness of this sort makes a person less credible on points where they might make a difference (such as defaulting to TrueHD). That may have something to do with the responses you're getting here. If I were a Warner executive, it would certainly affect how I received your input.
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post #48 of 169
2/16/09 at 2:58pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
The TrueHD track will play back the lossy core at 2.0 if that is how you have it set up. I've done it literally dozens of times, on Warner titles.
You probably have a player that supports TrueHD, as many do. I'm talking about the spec, not individual players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
You do not need a separate DD track. I've even confirmed this with acquaintances who have extensive experience in authoring of Blu-ray discs.
I have my own qualified experts to to back me up, plus there's the little matter of the Blu-ray spec. But we should probably leave this for another thread, since this is becoming something of a thread hijack.
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post #49 of 169
2/16/09 at 3:05pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
You probably have a player that supports TrueHD, as many do. I'm talking about the spec, not individual players.

I've worked with 90% of BD players on the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
I have my own qualified experts to to back me up, plus there's the little matter of the Blu-ray spec. But we should probably leave this for another thread, since this is becoming something of a thread hijack.

Fair enough. But if Sony can release dozens of titles with just a TrueHD english track, so can Warner.
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post #50 of 169
2/16/09 at 3:12pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
Not while the film was playing though I bet!
ACtually Yes. Pressing the audio button on my remote control. same thing as doing it with a pop up menu on Blu.
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post #51 of 169
2/16/09 at 3:15pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Warner should just default TrueHD, and everyone will be happy.

Name 1 reason why they shouldn't.
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post #52 of 169
2/16/09 at 3:51pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

A TrueHD default would be handy, but thankfully my thumbs are in full working order so a simple button press will do me fine. In the grand scheme of things, it's not exactly a major hardship.
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post #53 of 169
2/16/09 at 3:52pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

I guess the two things you can do is to avoid buying their titles and to voice your conserns in forums like this one. WB have a history of taking feedback to heart, so I wouldn't be that surprised if they changed to defaulting to the HD audio track.
I have to admit that it has never bothered me the slightest to have to push the audi-button once to change to the HD audio-track. It's not that I don't see your point (as it would make more sense to start up the HD-track automatically), but to be honest it still doesn't come near to the annoyance of having to spend at least a minute or two skipping previews of the latest Disney-direct-to-video releases before I can see the feature presentation on their discs.

I've never found Warner to be skimpy on the extra features either. The one area I'm conserned is with the way DNR seems to have been used on some titles. Amadeus is on it's way in the mail, so we'll see how that turns out.

All in all, WB has given me some of my favourite HD-moments with their releases of classic movies. Adventures of Robin Hood, Casablanca, The searchers, all the kubrick titles.....
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post #54 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:39pm
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runar_R
I have to admit that it has never bothered me the slightest to have to push the audi-button once to change to the HD audio-track. It's not that I don't see your point (as it would make more sense to start up the HD-track automatically), but to be honest it still doesn't come near to the annoyance of having to spend at least a minute or two skipping previews of the latest Disney-direct-to-video releases before I can see the feature presentation on their discs.

I agree that skipping trailers etc is a pain in the butt, but I'd still rather do that than have a 2-second audio dropout in all my WB movies!

But my point is you can have the best of both worlds. No trailers AND no audio switching. All WB has to do is default to the HD track. Simple. And everyone is happy!
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post #55 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff_D
A TrueHD default would be handy, but thankfully my thumbs are in full working order so a simple button press will do me fine. In the grand scheme of things, it's not exactly a major hardship.

Fine. Then what can I say? Enjoy the audio dropouts on your WB movies I guess!

And spare not a thought for those less informed who listen to the DD5.1 track on WB titles, not knowing that there's a better track on there!
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post #56 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:47pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Same attitude prevails apparently as with when Disney defaulted RATATOUILLE to 2.0 for some fantastic reason.

Imagine if all DVDs STILL defaulted to 2.0 over 5.1 (and they used to back in the day).

"Just use the remote!"
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post #57 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:49pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
Fine. Then what can I say? Enjoy the audio dropouts on your WB movies I guess!

I think the point people are making is that it doesn't have the dropout if one restarts the film. Restarting the film simply doesn't bother other people like it does for you, John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Ross
And spare not a thought for those less informed who listen to the DD5.1 track on WB titles, not knowing that there's a better track on there!
If someone doesn't look at the specs of a disc sitting right in front of them I have no sympathy.

That being said, I do feel that the TrueHD should be the default, or, like I said earlier, the only English track on the disc just like Sony does (and also as Fox/MGM does with DTS-HD MA).
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post #58 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:54pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Whitford
And when you have a nice hometheater with dimmable lights and remotes that do macros which dim them and start the movie why should you have to explain to your guests why you had to start the movie over or why you had to bring the menu up (because a PS3 doesnt have an audio button )? It is a hassle and also takes away from the whole experience. The wow factor is gone. Guests or not.

Why don't you cue up the movie before your guests get there with all the correct settings, and pause it before the movie starts, just like the projectionist does in the theaters?

Doug
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post #59 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:54pm

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

It's about the relative nature of the inconvenience. The audio issue is inconvenient, but it does not "ruin" the movie watching experience for me (and most people, I'd wager). I rank it far lower than the inconvenience of trekking out to the cinema, not getting the "right seat", listening to people talk during the movie, the noise of candy wrappers, popcorn munching and soda slurping, muffled sound--and so on.

No one disputes it would be better to default to the best audio, but it isn't as big a deal as some other things to most people. That's just the way it is.
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post #60 of 169
2/16/09 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
I think the point people are making is that it doesn't have the dropout if one restarts the film. Restarting the film simply doesn't bother other people like it does for you, John.

If someone doesn't look at the specs of a disc sitting right in front of them I have no sympathy.

Yes it bothers me. It's an amateurish way to watch a movie. And I don't expect amateurish on an advanced high-definition format.

As to not having sympathy, I'm not sure what it's like over in the States but here you simply don't get the original box when you rent a movie, so you have no way of knowing what audio tracks are on the disc. And if you do purchase the title I'm sure a lot of people don't even look at the back, they just figure that the disc will default to the best track if they're not required to select it in advance.

Stupid of them I guess.
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