What can we do about Warner Bros? - Page 5

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

By the way, a rather timely (or untimely, depending on one's view) interview with George Feltenstein of Warner Home Video is now up at highdefdigest.com.

Blu About The Slow Release of Classic Titles On Blu-ray? Take Heart! | High-Def Digest

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

OK, nice and simple:

1. For technical reasons detailed several times, it IS possible for Warner to have its Blu-rays default to TrueHD, while maintaining compatability with hardware that doesn't support TrueHD.
2. No one here knows why Warner chooses not to do so.
3. A dispassionate reading of this thread reveals that a majority would support having Warner author their discs so that TrueHD is the default. (I said I would in the second post.) However, it's not a high priority for most people.

Got it?

Now, if Mr. Ross had started a friendly little thread about how great it would be to persuade Warner to follow the example set by such studios as Sony and Paramount when it comes to default audio tracks, I suspect we'd have a consensus by now, and a Warner exec reading this thread might think, "Hey, maybe we should consider it." Instead, we have this thread, which I doubt will persuade anyone of anything they don't already think.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

You want to stick by all 4 issues despite them being more or less proven baseless.
Oh, please. You could have done a modicum of research, which would have narrowed your concerns down to one, and then made the point that it was an annoyance, but it wouldn't be a bad thing if they looked into it.

Instead, you've chosen to make what is a 15-second issue that almost no one else has a problem with into something unforgivable and destructive to watching a movie (despite the fact that others pointed out to you that there's a lot of differences that you conveniently ignore), all the while dismissing the facts on the other 3 for no other reason than more or less "because I want to be upset and I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is ignorant."

And you wonder why people aren't being too sympathetic?

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Not gonna win people over by calling them "Warner apologists", and that "almost zero effort" is being put into the discs.

Like i say, i dont have the HD audio ability. I am sure some day i will. If Warner changes the way they do things, i will adapt. But, i dont mind changing audio when a movie starts. Shoot, i still have a few old DVDs that need to have it done. As long as its a QUALITY disc, its all good.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Count me in as being quite annoyed w/ Warner's approach of defaulting to the lossy track (combined w/ making menu access to a track change more fussy than necessary).

No, it's not a dealbreaker in general of course, but it's certainly one extra niggling thing (among others) that makes the whole BD experience less satisfying -- and apparently for no particularly good reason at that.

RE: the point about using the PS3's BT remote (w/ audio button), ack(!), I'm not going back to frequently hitting the stop button by mistake -- and needing to reboot the whole BD since Warner also uses BD-J on their discs.

_Man_

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

OK, sorry about the misquote John.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Every time I try to reply to this post, you've made it even shorter.

In the original version, you cited to Blu-ray.com's review of The Pelican Brief, a Warner title mentioned in your initial post as an example of a disc "plagued" by DNR and edge enhancement.

Could it be that the review link disappeared from your post because, if one actually reads the review, the video evaluation isn't exactly the condemnation you'd like it to be?

So here's one more point from your initial post that turns out to be less than credible. Maybe it's time to reconsider that blanket endorsement of your original comments.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

John,

I'm glad you are enjoying Blu Ray discs now. Because just a little over a year ago when the format war was going, when I said one I was having fun with BD, you replied saying I fail to see why pressing eject, inserting a disc, pressing play and watching a movie on Blu-Ray is any more "fun" (in the strictest sense of the word) to doing exactly the same thing with a DVD disc (but probably faster and with fewer glitches!). And that you found more fun in tracking down SD discs like a Scandinavian version of The Boys From Brazil.

You even said: I just bought and watched the latest R2 Doctor Who release "Planet Of Evil" on crappy old DVD and I loved it. Fantastic stuff! I have no wish to be denied that pleasure just because I've been spoiled with Blu-Ray and its (mainly) crappy selection of blockbuster tosh!

I think after all us get more heavily invested in BD and in home theater our expectations rise. So give them a little time. It's only been a little over a year since you were not a BD supporter and now you are adamant that a leader of great BD product, alter their current structure because of a 5-second button change.

I think Warner releases great product, but they aren't perfect.

I work in the industry & the time lines and small budgets required to get DVDs authored is very challenging. I don't work with Warner, but I'm sure they face the same challenges.

I enjoy home theater so much, and I enjoy reading comments from all perspectives. I'm not challenging you and I think you have some good points but give them a little time. BD is still very new.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

I suspect that the option to default back to DD when the player is unable to play True HD is an advanced authoring feature, though I don't know this for sure.

I suspect that the Warner discs are authored as they are because the seem to have a preference for not using advanced mode authoring. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single Warner title that uses advanced mode, though again I could be wrong here.

I also find it interesting that Warners just won the "best studio" award here on HTF.

Doug

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

As of November 2008, they weren't doing lossless on everything (Chuck season 1 only had standard Dolby Digital 5.1), but I haven't looked at the specs of anything since then.

At least they included the segments, unlike 20th Century Fox...

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Mr. Ross is a consumer, and it's his opinion. He doesn't have to sugarcoat anything to please execs at Warner in a thread he creates. I agree that points 2,3, and 4 are unimportant. His issue with audio is a valid concern. Lossless audio tracks are the optimum preferred choice by home theater enthusiasts. If
any studio decides not to include that feature, then it is the consumers that are suffering.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

I appreciate your candor. Let me return it in kind.

I too am a consumer, and I believe that threads like this one, with their hyperbolic rhetoric and factual inaccuracies, undercut the legitimate efforts of reasonable and serious people (of which there are many participating in this thread) to have their voices heard and to effectuate meaningful change at the studio level. That's my opinion, and I'm not sugarcoating it for you, Mr. Ross or anyone else.

And BTW:
I said that in the second (2nd) post in this thread, as well as in the post to which you're replying. You're so busy trying to seize the moral high ground that you lost sight of the issue that needs fixing and the people who agree with you. Much like Mr. Ross.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

UPDATE

Allow me to cut in here with some information that you will pleased
to hear.

I have talked with "The Wizard of Oz" over at Warner Brothers this
evening.

Before this issue of TRUE HD was even brought up on this forum, the
studio had already recently put a mandate forward that all titles newly
in the pipeline would not only contain TRUE HD but would automatically
default to the audio format upon insertion into the player.

It seems like the studio was already had the best interests of their
consumers in mind even before you brought it to their attention.

Give a little time for these new titles to appear.

We will also be chatting with the studio very shortly. They have some
exciting announcements for us.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

That's great news, Ron. Thanks for the update!

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Thanks for the great news, Ron!

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

And THAT gentlemen, is why we love Warner. Thats why they are number one!
They listen to the consumer, and they have a fantastic product!

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

I've been following this thread, but haven't been active in it. Still, I wanted to add my kudos to Warner. Over the years, they have been the studio to provide high-quality home video product on the most consistent basis. I am not surprised by this good news. They tend to "do right" by the consumer and they are behind the highest percentage of my favorite DVDs and HD media.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

So let me flip it:

If Warner can have BD-LIVE (Java) on Body of Lies (recommended), and allow resume play, why can't other studios do the same?

Or is it the new Panasonic firmware which overcame that issue?

(Need to check whether optical vs HDMI is any different using a large Yamaha receiver on DSP mode still.)

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

That's very pleasant to hear. Indeed we often underestimate how long (in time) the DVD and BD pipelines are and we may be busy grumbling about some aspect that has been corrected for some time already but the releases haven't seen the daylight yet.


I really haven't seen anyone in this thread who advised any other member to "sugarcoat" valid concerns. However if someone loudly (and in a thread with a vigilant topic title) complaints about 4 gripes, three of which you agree with that they aren't so important, then I understand some irritation by other members.

Furthermore, no-one denied that John H Ross could have a valid gripe in the matter of his first point - people just couldn't agree on the severity of it in daily practice (or the reason to uniquely attack Warner Bros for it).

For the record: You yourself have got it wrong.
John didn't complain about any studio (or Warner only) for deciding not to include the "optimum preferred choice by home theater enthusiasts" (lossless audio tracks), but his point 1 was merely the fact that most (if any) of Warner BDs won't default automatically to such a track (which is present then!) when they start.
That's quite something else than you understand and much less severe, IMO.

And apparently corrected by Warner in the near future, as we just learned.


Cees

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

I have neither the disc nor the player in question. But BD-LIVE and BD-Java aren't the same thing--you can have a BD-Java disc without using BD-LIVE. Could it be that, now that there are BD-LIVE players on the market, they're using the storage space to create suspend/resume data when playing on a Profile 2.0 player?

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

What can we do about Warner Bros?

Say, "Thank you."

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

That seems to be a good way to end this thread

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Just to clarify for those that may have missed it, Every single Blu-Ray player is capable of passing thru the 1.5mbps DTS core. If it were not the case, then owners of most titles, if not all, from Fox, Universal & Disney would have had a serious issue with no sound, for these studios have consistently been releasing BDs with 'DTS-HD Master Audio' as the only audio option.

This is really good news and goes a long way in removing my aversion to Warner BD releases. Thank you Warner, for as much as some might consider these a small issue, for me they are a very 'major' issue. Although it is almost shocking that it took Warner as long as it did to figure out what ought to have been a simple 'common sense' decision, but as they say, "better late, than never".

Now if only we could get them to consider switching to 'DTS-HD Master Audio'. I know, I know, I won't be holding my breath.

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Forgive me ignorance - I'm asking this next question not to provoke a fight or anything, I genuinely don't know the answer.

Isn't lossless audio the same, no matter what codec it's stored in? I thought that if you had an uncompressed audio track, it would sound the same regardless of whether it was encoded to the disc as PCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD. In other words, assuming the source is the same, shouldn't a TrueHD track sound identical to the same program encoded as a DTS-HD track?

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Of course.
But to some, some animals are more equal!


CVees

Re: What can we do about Warner Bros?

Thanks for the update Ron. Saves me one less button press, I s'pose.