New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

post #1 of 9
2/10/09 at 11:21am
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I am trying to hook up my upconverting dvd player (Pioneer HTZ-575DV 5.1 Surround Sound System with the XV-DV385 1080p Upconverting DVD player) to my television (Mitsubishi WD-52327 52 inch 1080i HDTV) with a male hdmi to male dvi cable. 480i and 480p work fine (the tv cannot support 720p). However, I cannot for the life of me get 1080i to work. I set everything up correctly in the dvd player, and when I switch it to 1080i, the screen goes blank and the video feed dies. Also, the TV knows it's supposed to be receiving something in 1080i because it does in fact change to that resolution, but fails to display any video. The TV manual also says it is HDCP compliant, so that shouldn't be an issue. Should I go out and try different cables (already tried one from Target and it didn't work)? I would really appreciate any input. Thank you!
Reply
post #2 of 9
2/10/09 at 12:50pm

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

If two cables already didn't work, it's likely the TV itself. Any other equipment (e.g. HD cable box) you can try?

In any case, for DVD you are probably better off using 480p anyway, since the TV itself is native 720p and has to scale to 720p internally. 480p->1080i->720p is usually going to be worse than 480p->720p.
Reply
post #3 of 9
2/10/09 at 1:02pm
Thread Starter 

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu
If two cables already didn't work, it's likely the TV itself. Any other equipment (e.g. HD cable box) you can try?

In any case, for DVD you are probably better off using 480p anyway, since the TV itself is native 720p and has to scale to 720p internally. 480p->1080i->720p is usually going to be worse than 480p->720p.

The TV actually cannot support 720p. When I try and set it to 720p, it says it cannot display it and to change it to 1080i. I guess I will try hooking the dvd player up through HDMI only to a friend's HDTV, but this is killing me I can't use the TV in 1080i. Would having a dual link or single link DVI cable make a difference. Would using a DVD-I over a DVI-D make a difference? Are all DVI cables HDCP compliant, or just some of them? Maybe my cable I am using isn't...thanks for the help though.
Reply
post #4 of 9
2/10/09 at 2:17pm

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

The TV *is* 720p internally; all it ever displays is 720p. It's just a kind of weird bastard of a set because it doesn't accept 720p as input. Mitsubishi apparently was transitioning between their CRT sets & a DLP model & were re-using CRT electronics with the 480i/p/1080i limitation even though the DLP chip itself is native 720p.

DVI-I vs. DVI-D doesn't make a difference in this case with a digital signal (DVI-I is for compatibility with analog signals over DVI), nor does dual-link (for higher resolutions on computers not HDTV). HDCP is just a protocol nothing to do with the cable itself, that depends on the chips the cables plug into.

It's really very unlikely that it's the cable, given that 480p works.

And it shouldn't kill you that you can't use the TV with 1080i from the DVD player, as I explained above it doesn't really help you at all on this set. The only time you would really be hurt if the 1080i DVI doesn't work is if you were watching Blu-ray that had the image constraint token (that no one uses yet) barring 1080i from component, and it also didn't work with the HDMI-DVI. For regular DVD 480p is definitely preferrable to 1080i on this set!
Reply
post #5 of 9
2/10/09 at 3:52pm
Thread Starter 

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

Stephen,

I am glad to hear that I am not really missing out on anything by not having 1080i. A couple more questions for you though...

1. If I decide to upgrade to Comcast HD (1080i I am assuming is the output), will I notice a difference there in using 1080i?

2. If I get a PS3, will I notice a difference on Blu-Ray titles in 1080i as opposed to 480p?

I know normally 1080i looks much better than 480p, but you say that it doesn't matter with this TV...I am just confused on how a 480p dvd will look better than an upconverted 1080i dvd? Thank you so much for your help.

Also, with regards to the HDMI->DVI cable not working correctly with 1080i...my friend who I bought the TV from had previously used his PS3 to upconvert dvds to 1080i without a problem at all, so I do not think it is an issue with the television...
Reply
post #6 of 9
2/10/09 at 5:39pm

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

Comcast HD & Blu-ray can be connected via component, 1080i, if your DVI doesn't work. It will look better than 480 since the source is starting with more pixels to begin with. The TV will be constructing 1280x720 pictures from an original 1920x1080 pictures (actually a bit more complicated than that since it's actually working with multiple 1920x540 interlaced fields, but I don't want to get into gory detail).

For DVD, there are only 720x480 pixels to start with, not the 1920x1080 of HD. It's more straightforward to get to the 1280x720 you need in the end by just scaling straight from the original data. If you upconvert to 1080i first, then essentially you are creating "guess" pixels to fill it out to 1920x1080, then going back down to 1280x720 from those guesses. The general rule is that one scaling operation from the original data is better than multiple scaling operations. Basically 720x480 direct to 1280x720 is better than 720x480 to 1920x1080 to 1280x720. The upconversion doesn't create any real picture information that isn't in the original, it is just interpolation basically. It doesn't make anything sharper, since you are limited by the original source data. It's a necessary evil in a fixed pixel world, it doesn't really make the picture better. It's more that some scaling algorithms are more sophisticated & less bad, avoiding artifacts and/or softening the picture too much to avoid artifacts.

Also, the deinterlacing of 1080i isn't well done either on earlier sets, so there is loss there too.

If the TV worked with the PS3 then perhaps it is a problem with your DVD player. Or a particular incompatibility between that player & this set.
Reply
post #7 of 9
2/10/09 at 5:51pm
Thread Starter 

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu
Comcast HD & Blu-ray can be connected via component, 1080i, if your DVI doesn't work. It will look better than 480 since the source is starting with more pixels to begin with. The TV will be constructing 1280x720 pictures from an original 1920x1080 pictures (actually a bit more complicated than that since it's actually working with multiple 1920x540 interlaced fields, but I don't want to get into gory detail).

For DVD, there are only 720x480 pixels to start with, not the 1920x1080 of HD. It's more straightforward to get to the 1280x720 you need in the end by just scaling straight from the original data. If you upconvert to 1080i first, then essentially you are creating "guess" pixels to fill it out to 1920x1080, then going back down to 1280x720 from those guesses. The general rule is that one scaling operation from the original data is better than multiple scaling operations. Basically 720x480 direct to 1280x720 is better than 720x480 to 1920x1080 to 1280x720. The upconversion doesn't create any real picture information that isn't in the original, it is just interpolation basically. It doesn't make anything sharper, since you are limited by the original source data. It's a necessary evil in a fixed pixel world, it doesn't really make the picture better. It's more that some scaling algorithms are more sophisticated & less bad, avoiding artifacts and/or softening the picture too much to avoid artifacts.

Also, the deinterlacing of 1080i isn't well done either on earlier sets, so there is loss there too.

If the TV worked with the PS3 then perhaps it is a problem with your DVD player. Or a particular incompatibility between that player & this set.
Thank you so much! You've really been helpful. My last question is having the DVD player output 480p instead of 480i will make a noticeable difference even though the TV's native resolution is 720p because it will be working with progressive scan in the first place before trying to scale it up to 720p, correct? So basically my best bet is to stick with 480p in order to get the best picture quality for this TV? Also, I think it's so stupid that this TV cannot accept it's native resolution directly of 720p...what the heck is up with that?
Reply
post #8 of 9
2/10/09 at 6:04pm

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

480i vs. 480p may not make much if any difference at all on most discs, it basically depends on whether the deinterlacer on your DVD player is better or worse at dealing with problematic discs than your TV is. If you send 480i to the set, the set's deinterlacer will convert to 480p first before it scales to 720p. Make sure "film mode" is on in your TV's video adjustments menu.

Yes, it's stupid that it doesn't accept native resolution, a lot of people criticized it for that when it first came out.
Reply
post #9 of 9
2/11/09 at 8:38am
Thread Starter 

Re: HDMI to DVI problem (no video)

So, if and when I do upgrade to Blu-Ray, it will be a better image because the TV will be scaling down from 1080p to 720p as opposed to a normal dvd player upscaling from 480i to 720p?
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home