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A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
A fact that many people may not realize, is that Black Edwards' The Pink Panther, a 1963 production which did not premiere domestically until early 1964, is a large format film.

The Pink Panther used the Technirama process, basically VistaVision 35mm 8-perf with a 50% anamorphosis, a process generally reserved for large scale "epic" productions or very high end musicals. Examples are El Cid, Spartacus, Sleeping Beauty, The Music Man and The Leopard.

Because the film moves sideways, any moving wear or damage will also be seen as horizontal marks.

The Pink Panther, a film which holds up nicely for content, with large format origins that are quite obvious, along with a rich, film look. Something else along for the ride are occasional horizontal scratches, that could have been dealt with via a few quick waves of the magic digital wand.

If one is lucky enough to ever get to see an old dye transfer print of The Pink Panther, The Music Man or others, there is a true visceral affect that makes its way to the screen because of the process and overall quality.

That quality has made it to the Blu-ray of The Pink Panther, which aside from a few niggling complaints, looks absolutely gorgeous on Blu-ray.

It's nice to finally see The Pink Panther, a member of the pantheon of quality United Artists titles, come to Blu-ray via M-G-M and Fox.

If you want to see what an early '60s film can look like when the quality begins with the taking stock and process and ends with a properly handled video master, The Pink Panther is a great example, and one more answer to those who ask the question "What does Blu-ray do for old movies?"

Highly Recommended.

RAH

Gear mentioned in this thread:

The Pink Panther
post #2 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Any chance to see Claudia Cardinale at age 25 is worthwhile. In large format-sourced high-def? Priceless.

Plus, one of Mancini's most urbane scores and an elegant, typically effortless performance from David Niven.

The refreshing of older catalog titles (after years of seeing worn, neglected prints) is the real gift of HD disc, IMO.
post #3 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

This will be joining the collection in short order. Any word about A Shot in the Dark?
post #4 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
A fact that many people may not realize, is that Black Edwards' The Pink Panther, a 1963 production which did not premiere domestically until early 1964, is a large format film.
In more than one way, in my opinion.

I remember the belly-aching laughs when first I saw it in the cinema. Then, years later, when it was announced for a TV broadcast, I was happy to sit and watch it again - but it disappointed terribly.

This one needs to be seen on a large format screen.


I'm glad it's available on BD soon - in my home as well.


Cees
post #5 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

I picked this up yesterday on Mr. Harris' recommendation. I must say I'm not a bit disappointed.

This is what classic large format cinematography is all about. There is an elegance to Mr. Blake and Mr. Lathrop's camera work that you just don't see in modern movies. These men understood how to compose for the wide screen format and it shows.

Doug
post #6 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

The 16x9 enhanced remaster in the PP DVD box set looks fantastic, so I'm eager to check this out. I love how Blake Edwards almost always shot in scope for films that would otherwise not have that sort of consideration into visuals. While it's not quite as funny as A Shot in the Dark, it's still a fun movie.

"Shot" doesn't look quite as good on DVD, but I'd hope a Universal BluRay of "Return" would get a release. Their DVD is fantastic.
post #7 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

I think you're right about Panther not being quiet as funny as Shot in the Dark. But its interesting to watch the development of the Clouseau character.

Also Panther is really more of an elegant romp than an out and out slapstick comedy, although that is there too. It almost puts the Bond films to shame with its use of beautiful European locations.

Doug
post #8 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

TPP is not a 'Clouseau film' like the other ones. It's quite a different type of humour and a different type of film.

That said, I love many of the series.


Cees
post #9 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
TPP is not a 'Clouseau film' like the other ones. It's quite a different type of humour and a different type of film.

That said, I love many of the series.


Cees


Exactly.
post #10 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

I see an occasional oval artifact, a kind of semi-transparent dimple. Any ideas to the cause?
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
I see an occasional oval artifact, a kind of semi-transparent dimple. Any ideas to the cause?

Time code, please.
post #12 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Mr. Harris, I just read the DVDBeaver review of the BD, where Gary Tooze observed that the beginning of the film "took a while to kick in - initially appearing dirty, excessively grainy with abundant speckles. But as it gained momentum it began to show its true 1080 colors (literally.)"

I really want to upgrade, but I love the opening sequences of this film. Is it really that problematic? Does it look much worse than the dvd?
post #13 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Time code, please.
There's an occurrence from 1:08:28 to 1:08:33. It's located in the upper left quadrant of the picture, in the window behind Wagner. It stays until he and Capucine move to the door.
post #14 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

I noticed it too. I was wondering if it was the anamorphic lens flairing slightly.

Doug
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMor
Mr. Harris, I just read the DVDBeaver review of the BD, where Gary Tooze observed that the beginning of the film "took a while to kick in - initially appearing dirty, excessively grainy with abundant speckles. But as it gained momentum it began to show its true 1080 colors (literally.)"

I really want to upgrade, but I love the opening sequences of this film. Is it really that problematic? Does it look much worse than the dvd?

He may be referring to the fact that some of the opening may be dupe which ties in with the main title sequence, such as the opening with hicon overlay.

I saw no problem.

RAH
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
There's an occurrence from 1:08:28 to 1:08:33. It's located in the upper left quadrant of the picture, in the window behind Wagner. It stays until he and Capucine move to the door.

My guess would be a wet-gate artifact.
post #17 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

I would loooooooooove to get this, but I'm tempted to wait for a more comprehensive boxed set of at least the Sellers films (i.e. the ones that matter!)

It can't be too far off, surely?
post #18 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
He may be referring to the fact that some of the opening may be dupe which ties in with the main title sequence, such as the opening with hicon overlay.

I saw no problem.

RAH

Thank you.
post #19 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Robert,

I have now watched my Blu-Ray of The Pink Panther and was surprised about the amount of grain present in the image which does not bother me at all but it raises a few questions for me:

For a large format film from that year the grain structure looked kind of coarse and the detail was a bit less than what I would have expected from a film shot in Technirama, was that the look the film had from the beginning ?

Would you have any info if this was done with a 2 or 4k scan and if the OCN was scanned or if other, possibly smaller and/or duplicate, elements were used ?
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Robert,

I have now watched my Blu-Ray of The Pink Panther and was surprised about the amount of grain present in the image which does not bother me at all but it raises a few questions for me:

For a large format film from that year the grain structure looked kind of coarse and the detail was a bit less than what I would have expected from a film shot in Technirama, was that the look the film had from the beginning ?

Would you have any info if this was done with a 2 or 4k scan and if the OCN was scanned or if other, possibly smaller and/or duplicate, elements were used ?

Oliver,

You're getting into interesting territory here, as the correct answer should be "no."

Any film going through the Technicolor dye transfer process appeared to have less grain as the final image, as printed, was slightly softer. This softness would normally go unnoticed, as the image, heightened by contrast, yielded an image of higher perceived, but not actual, sharpness.

The scanning of an original negative on modern equipment will provide a sharper image, with a bit more of the actual film grain showing through.

By answering this question I'm not certain whether I'm helping or adding to t he confusion.

RAH
post #21 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Thank you Robert for the interesting answer that indeed prompts me to ask some more.

If I have understood your answer correctly added grain structure can be kind of seen for the first time when going back to the OCN and that makes perfect sense to me.

So I take it that for the Blu-Ray a scan was made of the OCN, hopefully in 4k given that it is a 8-perf source ?

And my second question:
If The Pink Panther has been scanned from the OCN I wonder how it can be that The Robe that I believe was shot on an earlier and probably more coarse Eastman stock than Pink Panther has rather less visible grain structure in its Blu-Ray incarnation despite coming from a much smaller negative than the Blu-Ray and even taking into account different lighting and shooting styles and conditions ?

My best guess would be some kind of let's say grain management and/or an effect where a faded negative loses the colors that usually shows the most grain which to me seems to be blue/cyan but maybe I am way off here on both accounts...
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Thank you Robert for the interesting answer that indeed prompts me to ask some more.

If I have understood your answer correctly added grain structure can be kind of seen for the first time when going back to the OCN and that makes perfect sense to me.

So I take it that for the Blu-Ray a scan was made of the OCN, hopefully in 4k given that it is a 8-perf source ?

It would make little difference in BD whether the scan was derived from an OCN or a modern IP. I don't have that information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
And my second question:
If The Pink Panther has been scanned from the OCN I wonder how it can be that The Robe that I believe was shot on an earlier and probably more coarse Eastman stock than Pink Panther has rather less visible grain structure in its Blu-Ray incarnation despite coming from a much smaller negative than the Blu-Ray and even taking into account different lighting and shooting styles and conditions ?

Because the grain was removed / reduced via Lowry's proprietary process. The Robe was neither a pretty picture, nor an easy element with which to work. At its best the OCN was a bit faded, and with the very heavy grain structure of the early stock. At its worst, where OCN no longer existed, the separations (also on early 5216 stock) would have been scanned and maneuvered digitally.[/quote]

Since one can remove grain without affecting resolution, it's almost impossible to tell what one is looking at on a BD unless there is familiarity with the actual elements.

RAH
post #23 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Because the grain was removed / reduced via Lowry's proprietary process. The Robe was neither a pretty picture, nor an easy element with which to work. At its best the OCN was a bit faded, and with the very heavy grain structure of the early stock. At its worst, where OCN no longer existed, the separations (also on early 5216 stock) would have been scanned and maneuvered digitally.

Thanks, that clears up my confusion about The Robe looking so clean. I was expecting coarse/heavy grain and I cannot remember to have read any comments about that kind of grain removal and reduction in the various articles about the new Blu-Ray.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Since one can remove grain without affecting resolution, it's almost impossible to tell what one is looking at on a BD unless there is familiarity with the actual elements.

RAH

Seeing how much grain there is with The Pink Panther and a few other movies that really stick out one could get the idea that many other older titles have been through a rather extensive grain removal/reduction. I hope this does not become the norm and titles like The Pink Panther, The Professionals or The Godfather trilogy the exception.



.
post #24 of 24

Re: A few words about...™ The Pink Panther -- in Blu-ray

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