Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Hardware › Display Devices (TVs/Projectors/Screens) › Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business? - Page 2

post #31 of 53
3/18/09 at 6:39am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Wow, looks like I am very late to this funeral.

Very big bummer. I really wanted my next TV to be a KURO. Hearing about the deep inky black levels had me pumped to watch space movies in a completely darkened room. Also, there would be no need for me to use the mattes I had been using to mask out the "black bars." on my own set. But with our bills and the economy the way it is, it is going to be several years before we buy another set. Hopefully in that time there will be an HDTV that approaches the quality of the KURO. Although it seems quality is the least of consumer concerns these days.

My present set is over 6 years old. A Pioneer rear projection CRT (SD-533HD5) that still looks great. Although I'm sure it could use a professional calibration, the picture looks a lot better than virtually all of the LCDs I have seen. Here's hoping the thing lasts several more years.
Reply
post #32 of 53
3/19/09 at 8:23am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

thats very sad, poineer makes one of the best plasmas.
Reply
post #33 of 53
4/2/09 at 5:22pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Bought a Kuro 111FD today with the knowledge that Pioneer was quitting the Plasma business; honestly, I couldn't walk away from the price and the fact that I've always, always, wanted a Pioneer Elite display. Damn this TV looks great - even compared to my XBR4.

Sad about Pioneer, but I'm not to concerned with warranty issues or fixing it if it breaks.
Reply
post #34 of 53
4/3/09 at 12:26pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

its sad to see such a paragon of quality go.

but, on the other hand, Plasmas are on the wane.

before the bashing begins, I love plasma. but they wont be able to compare with these Samsung OLED's



Showcased at CES 2009, Samsung expects them to be consumer ready by 2010!
Reply
post #35 of 53
4/3/09 at 9:09pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Jingle
its sad to see such a paragon of quality go.

but, on the other hand, Plasmas are on the wane.

before the bashing begins, I love plasma. but they wont be able to compare with these Samsung OLED's



Showcased at CES 2009, Samsung expects them to be consumer ready by 2010!

Yeah but OLED A) Isn't cheap and B) isn't available in sizes over 40" - yet. I too am a fan of the OLED technology, I spent about 30 minutes staring at CES. Well, if and when they are ready and cost effective I'll move into OLED technology.
Reply
post #36 of 53
4/10/09 at 5:21pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_J_D
Yeah but OLED A) Isn't cheap and B) isn't available in sizes over 40" - yet. I too am a fan of the OLED technology, I spent about 30 minutes staring at CES. Well, if and when they are ready and cost effective I'll move into OLED technology.

I think we're still a few years off from OLED technology for the manufacturers to really ramp up production. A lot of them are still trying to recover LCD glass factory costs!

In the 100" sizes I think next few years we'll see a lot of 1080P projector TV's as the energy consumption of 100" LCD is ridiculous (think multiple hair dryes)....
Reply
post #37 of 53
4/14/09 at 11:44am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

According to Samsung, their OLED's may be consumer ready as soon as 2010
Reply
post #38 of 53
4/14/09 at 11:51am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Depends on what is meant by "almost as good". Professional reviews have indicated Panasonic is two generations behind Pioneer in performance. Maybe that's imperceptible to the typical consumer so it's "almost as good".

As for being super thin...most TVs go on a stand that's 12" deep, so what does going from 2" to 1" thick on a TV do for anyone? No real space is saved.

Ultimately, Consumers lose out somewhat by no longer having the best technology competing and driving other companies to innovate further.


This is a great example of the bias people have for Pioneer.

I don't care if "professional" reviewers think Panasonic is "two generations behind" if 'typical consumer so it's "almost as good"'.

The vast majority of sets are bought by "typical consumers". And few, if any, seem to notice the difference in color contrast between Pioneer and Panasonic is side-by-side comparisons. Even Kevin Smith (ISF) ranks Pioneer as PQ 10 and Panasonic as PQ 9.5.

And the fact that the set is now 1" thick means that 12" deep stands are history. In fact these sets should be hung on a wall like paintings!


Reply
post #39 of 53
4/14/09 at 1:55pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Jingle
According to Samsung, their OLED's may be consumer ready as soon as 2010

i'll wait for it..
Reply
post #40 of 53
4/15/09 at 6:35pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
In fact these sets should be hung on a wall like paintings

Disagree.
Reply
post #41 of 53
6/21/10 at 7:34pm
Although I don't have the Pro 111, I do have a recently installed Pr0 1010. If they are suppose to be similar, they suck. Compared to my NEC 50" that is 5 years old now, the Pioneer doesn't have the clarity, color accuracy or any other feature that matches the NEC. The pioneer was recenty bought and installed about a month ago. It was used for only one year and has no burn in. The Pioneer might never have been calibrated, so I might be unrealistic in its evaluaion. There isn't a Plasma made today that I've seen that can match the NEC (68 Billion colors). The recent US Open at Pebble Beach showed every detail on my NEC. Any suggestions of who can calibrate an obsolete TV in the Houston area??
Reply
post #42 of 53
6/21/10 at 7:57pm
Thread Starter 

I've not seen the 1010 and I have no idea what your 'NEC 50"' is, so I can't directly speak on it. 

 

That said, over the years, the Kuro displays have been consistently reviewed and regarded as near the top, the best by some, of their class compared to peers. If this is significantly underperforming, you should check its configuration to make sure something's not grossly askew.

 

 

I see 1010 is not exactly 720p: Pioneer specs it as WXGA 1280x768. I can imagine scaling artifacts might decrease the image quality. You could check the display details and see if you can force a 720p pixel-perfect image (sacrificing 48 pixels, unfortunately).

 

Also, it's a 2006 model; the Pro-101 is 2009 (I think) and clearly the Kuro's advanced over the years. But I recall a review from a few years ago on a sub-1080p Kuro that, despite it's lower resolution was rated tops because its overall picture quality was so much better than the other displays.

 

Best of luck. And if you have an unwanted Kuro, you might check the forums for a buyer. I don't see a market on eBay with a quick search, but it might still have fans. Or it might be an interesting computer monitor in the right setup.

Reply
post #43 of 53
6/21/10 at 8:54pm

Chuck:

 

 

Quote:
Any suggestions of who can calibrate an obsolete TV in the Houston area??

 

We have several ISF calibrationists that are members of the forum. I would contact Gregg Loewen, HTF moderator and owner of Lion AV, at http://www.lionav.com/services.php  He will be able to set you up with someone in your area. Many of our members can attest to their expertise.

Reply
post #44 of 53
6/21/10 at 8:57pm

It is my understanding that Panasonic bought out Pioneer's display division and many of the features that we used in the Kuro have been, or will be, implemented in their new line of plasmas.

 

Parker

 

Reply
post #45 of 53
6/23/10 at 8:30am

This just a test...my old computer doesn't seem to post replies on this site very well (tried 3 times!).  If this works then I'll repost with a more extensive answer.

Reply
post #46 of 53
6/23/10 at 9:08am

http://www.laaudiofile.com/px50xr4a.html

 

Above is a link to a Dec. '04 review of my NEC.  In summary, it is a 720p, 1365X768 pixel resolution machine that has 68 billion color capability.  With hand soldered (don't know if that makes a difference) connections (no HDMI) to a very elaborate over done audio system, it has no competition that I've seen.  All other plasmas that I've seen (our kids Panasonic Viera, 2 years old with HDMI) and a 42" LCD from LG doesn't compare.  I agree with one comment above that plasmas are bad in a lighted room.  At night it can't be beat.  It has a slight burn in that can only be seen with a white background (very faint).  It listed for $8900 MSRP in '05, and I got it for $5100.  The pioneer Pro 1010 Elite was &2k and is used for only one year (3 years old).

 

I don't know what a Kuro is.  The only marking on this pioneer is Elite at the bottom of the frame.  Is "Kuro" japanese for Elite?  Since I just bought this machine I don't plan on selling it, but willing to find a calibration tool (the above mentioned website from Mr. Clack above doesn't work), and calibrate it myself or have a pro do it.  The person who installed my NEC used software to calibrate that machine.  I've talked to him about this Pioneer one and has given me some ideas on how to calibrate it (the Pioneer is in Houston in our "new" home.  The NEC is here in Denver.  I've even scoured Craigslist for used NECs since December and they are very rare to find.  A few months ago, before our house was purchased in Houston there were 2 50" NECs for sale from businesses that used them for presentations and not as TV sets (they don have speakers..so they are called monitors).   A Marantz 61" tv was on cragislist here in Denver a few months ago.  The frame around the tv (from the pic on craigslist) and the associated controller (downloaded from the internet) showed that it is identical to my NEC (my conclusion is that NEC made that TV for Marantz, similar to the Bang & Olufsen 50" I saw at Cherry Creek mall 5 years ago).  The salesman at B & O said that NEC made the "glass" for their TV.  So with that background, I bought the NEC from a home theater installer.  I saw a 37" NEC in his retail business and was amazed (back in the summer of '05).  Ob viously since then there has been enhancements galore in this market (plasma, LCD, LED backlit LCD and the future OLEDs), but comparing what I see now, nothing comes close to the NEC I have.  After calibrating the pioneer elite, I hope to get a picture that is better than this older NEC, but I'm not holding my breath!.  I wouldn't think the fewer pixels the Pioneer has would make that much of a difference, but the one who does the calibration for me should be able to explain that.  Hooked up to a brand new Sony blue ray player didn't help much.  If fact the best part of that Blue ray movie (Casino Royale with Daniel Craig) was the lead-in credits, music overlaid, and playing cards dancing all over the place.  The NEC was amazing and the Pioneer very average.  The action scenes in the movie also disappointing.  Color is not as bright or accurate (purely subjective on my part).

 

Sorry about the run-on about my tv, but a fuller explanation was needed, I feel.  Again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Reply
post #47 of 53
6/23/10 at 9:11am

Mr. Clack the url isn't found.  Any other ideas?

Reply
post #48 of 53
6/23/10 at 10:10am

hi guys

Parker, I fixed your link...thanks for mentioning me!!

 

 

Quote:
 it has no competition that I've seen

 

To be honest...you have not looked very hard then. Any thing from Panasonic since 2004 would out perform the NEC. As would any Pioneer from 2004.  The new Samsungs are also very nice, not to mention the LGs.

Reply
post #49 of 53
6/23/10 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 

Kuro is Pioneer's branding for their plasma line. It appropriately means "black", as Pioneer was touting their excellent black-level reproduction (a long-standing problem with LCD and DLP-based TVs and projectors).

 

Manufacturer's claims of things like "68 Billion colors" are usually meaningless. (In this case, that means 12-bit color, and I don't think any source today, much less from 2004, supported that.) What matters is that your TV, according to the review, has good to great color reproduction :)

 

When I was shopping in 2009, I didn't see any NEC TVs on the market. Perhaps they had a technological marvel in 2004 that was years ahead of the competition, but they seem to have quit the market a few years back. Too bad, if they perform as well as you say.

 

Again, if you have a Kuro that you don't want, I suggest shopping it around. Kuro has very strong brand recognition and you may find a buyer on the various HTF forums or even eBay.

Reply
post #50 of 53
6/23/10 at 3:09pm

Hey Gregg,

 

Thanks for the referral to Doug via my email.  He's coming to Houston in July, so he might be able to help me directly!

 

As a new home gift to our daughter 2 years ago, I helped them buy a Panasonic 50" Viera (HDMI) TV.  While looking at other sets in the Ultimate Electronics store, nothing compared to my NEC.  I've read articles however that you can't really judge TVs in the store because of interference and lack of calibration and other set-up issues.  5 years ago I even looked at Fujitsu (the only other (than the NEC) tv made at that time with a standard 3-year warranty, I believe).  Other custom audio/video dealers I visited 5 years ago included Listen-Up and Cherry Creek audio, both here in Denver.  As far as looking recently for a good TV, I probably was lacking.  So I think I did my homework back then.  At one time I read on the net that Pioneer bought NEC's production line in Japan (around '06 when NEC decided to get out of the commercial TV business).  As this subject on the forum at Home Theater is so similar to the NEC production, I thought I would read about what people had said about the "demise" of the Pioneer. 

 

I know this is very subjective when it comes to judging picture quality, especially when the tvs are so good.  I reserve judgment on the Pioneer until it is calibrated, but I was really disappointed in the picture after they hooked it all up.

 

Reply
post #51 of 53
6/23/10 at 3:28pm
Thread Starter 

You say that Pioneer may have bought NEC -- perhaps the Kuro line is in some way derived from  NEC technology? I'm not an expert. But the range of reviews I when I was shoping in early 2009 convinced me that Kuro was generally considered tops (or in a heated contest with Samsung LCD). That lead me to buy my 50" Kuro. 

 

But if I were shopping today, I'd have to start anew on the research. I don't know what's best in 2010. :)

 

And I think shopping for TVs is pretty tough, and the stores don't do us any favors. Even if they have them connected to a good HD signal -- which isn't always the case -- you're viewing them under bright, fluorescent lighting and the TVs are set to "torch" mode. Unless you normally watch movies with the mid-day sun streaming in, it's nothing like your home setup. It dramatically skews the appearance so that bright, but low contrast TVs will look better than less-bright but high contrast TVs -- when in fact in normal home viewing, you'd prefer just the opposite. And small, boutique shops don't usually have TVs setup for easy side-by-side comparison. 

 

Fortunately, it seems that today even budget TVs to a respectable job.

Reply
post #52 of 53
7/24/10 at 1:33pm

I just had my Pro 1010 "adjusted" to max out its performance, without Doug's input.  It made a terrific difference and compares favorably to my NEC.  Adjustments were made from software run through the receiver.  I won't be using Doug's service however as I am now satisfied with the picture I am getting.  I just wanted to update the forum.

Reply
post #53 of 53
7/24/10 at 4:56pm

 the Pioneer should be able to kick the NEC's a@@.  Glad its looking better :-)

 

Quote:

 made a terrific difference and compares favorably to my NEC

 

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Hardware › Display Devices (TVs/Projectors/Screens) › Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?