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Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

post #1 of 53
2/6/09 at 8:05pm
Thread Starter 
I've been reading some threads elsewhere about Pioneer quitting the Plasma TV business, and possibly going out of business. Cnet has a report of the rumor.

Has anyone heard anything about this?

Having bought a Pioneer plasma two weeks ago, it doesn't make me especially comfortable thinking they may be going out of business. I'm not sure how warranty and repairs go in such a case (if ever needed).

This seems to make sense of the plummeting Pioneer prices -- I bought at 40% off MSRP, and prices have fallen another 10% since I bought I guess I can only hope there's a further price drop at BestBuy that I can match against and save a few more $$$.
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post #2 of 53
2/6/09 at 8:58pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Wowzers.
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post #3 of 53
2/7/09 at 1:01am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Bye bye Kuro Lounge and the fuzzy white chair?
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post #4 of 53
2/7/09 at 6:30am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
....I'm not sure how warranty and repairs go in such a case (if ever needed)....
It should make no difference. The first year there will be circuit boards available for repair. The second year, there will still be some boards available for your extended warranty company to use for repair. The third and beyond, the warranty company will have to replace your TV: just the same as if the company was still producing sets.
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post #5 of 53
2/7/09 at 8:47am
Thread Starter 

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Wowzers indeed. I like the TV and will keep it. But I'm not sure I'd have bought it had I know a priori that Pioneer might be gone next month.

Ah well. If it doesn't have technical problems past year 2, all's good. And maybe I can sell it later as a collectible
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post #6 of 53
2/7/09 at 9:03am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Dave- Thanks for the link to this thread, I should have used this section of the HTF!

I have a Pioneer plasma Pro-1130HD that I got in late 2005 for the Holidays. It's a champ and still has a beautiful picture. I had hoped to upgrade to a 60" sometime soon. This is really unfortunate news as I think their displays are the most beautiful, not only the picture, but the simple and pure design of the display itself.

I'm torn about getting a Kuro way sooner then planned or sitting out and see what happens. Panasonic could take over where Pioneer has left off. They were going to work together as Panasonic was going to supply the glass to Pioneer's specs. I'm tempted to get one now!
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post #7 of 53
2/7/09 at 9:46am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

RIP Kuro
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post #8 of 53
2/7/09 at 11:48am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Unfortunately, the poor economy is taking a toll on the electronic industry. Panasonic, Sony, Samsung and others have already closed plants and laid-off many workers. With the massive lay-offs we are experiencing the middle class can't afford electronic goods, especially those that are high priced.

Pioneer was committed to Plasma and even though Plasma is a great product they did not sell very well. I don't know what the rap is but LCD is the product everyone seems to want. LCOS, DLP died (Toshiba's SED never got out of the gate) and maybe this is now the end of Plasma. Panasonic is the other big Plasma maker and they announced plant closings and lay-offs.

4 years ago I purchased a 55" Philips LCOS close-out at REX's and the set has performed without problems. (In the meantime REX's went out of business.) At that time I also purchased a replacement bulb for fear that when the original died I may not be able to buy one. After 4 years I am certain if something goes besides the bulb I will have to buy a new set. If I can get 5 years out of the set it will be time for a new one. Good luck on your purchase.
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post #9 of 53
2/7/09 at 5:03pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

The video industry is hard on manufacturers, as they all race each other to zero. They all kill their own profit margins to gain market share...

Same thing happened to computer manufacturers IMO.
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post #10 of 53
2/7/09 at 6:18pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

so since I was considering getting a Kuro, what should I do? Do prices in this situation typically go up, down, remain the same? You think they would still continue warranty service as is?
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post #11 of 53
2/7/09 at 7:32pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

I haven't read anywhere that Pioneer Corporation itself is going out of business - that would be HUGE news (and incredibly depressing). Don't forget Pioneer's main business is audio, car and home, and building/selling raw drivers.

I'm a fan of plasmas myself and no flatscreen expert, but for regular home viewing use (i.e. not broadcast studios) it seems LCD sets are getting very close to plasmas in image quality, so maybe the price difference is enough to push many people to buy an LCD instead?

Plus there's the "green" issue: plasmas in general supposedly use more power than LCDs, possibly another factor in the lower sales of plasmas.
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post #12 of 53
2/8/09 at 12:43am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Hello Guys,

Rumour's, speculation, news reports, ya' di' ya' di' yarrrrr!

All the manufacturers are down sizing....guys, but they are still producing the goods...all be it reduced output......

what about the news with a Japanese manufacturer who produces Projectors ''lets say'' they were in heavy losses and have been for years.....and guess what? they are still producing equipment.

Their projectors ar amongst the best in the business and are in great demand

Try reading the UK ''HOME CINEMA CHOICE APRIL 2009''

Under Features 24 HCC gets exclusive accessto Pioneer's R&D lab in Japan to learn about the future of KURO and it's new FUGA Processing tech.

Two page spread.........read this guys and do not worry, PIONEER have product's which are highly respected........throughout the AV industry.

They have invested so much time and effort in there product ''the actions and product speak for themselves here and we all know the benchmark of which they have set from production since the late 1990's to now, they have protected patents that the rest of the industry would die for........stay calm right or wrongly....will it or won't it, will they or won't they?

Read this article and keep the faith.......the product will go on....
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post #13 of 53
2/8/09 at 9:21am
Thread Starter 

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceJ
I haven't read anywhere that Pioneer Corporation itself is going out of business - that would be HUGE news (and incredibly depressing). Don't forget Pioneer's main business is audio, car and home, and building/selling raw drivers.
I had that part wrong. I gather they're exiting the Plasma TV and Blu Ray player businesses.

Why did plasma fail? The big reason right now, I think, is for Joe Consumer, LCD simply looks better than Plasma at the store. Had I not read "pro" articles that Plasma looks better at home, tuned up, I would have bought an LCD. My brother-in-law bought an LCD over plasma. When I asked why, he said the LCDs had better contrast and the Plasma's blacks all looked gray compared to the LCDs. This is completely opposite of what magazine reviews note for "realistic" viewing at home. But it's how things look with TVs in "Torch" mode under bright Best Buy lighting.
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post #14 of 53
2/8/09 at 9:44am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Plus there's the "green" issue: plasmas in general supposedly use more power than LCDs, possibly another factor in the lower sales of plasmas.
Though this wasn't a factor in my purchase at the time, it can be pretty significant difference. My LCD uses 290W while a comparable sized plasma is 638W!!!
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post #15 of 53
2/8/09 at 9:52am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroomoLDmadness
Try reading the UK ''HOME CINEMA CHOICE APRIL 2009''

Under Features 24 HCC gets exclusive accessto Pioneer's R&D lab in Japan to learn about the future of KURO and it's new FUGA Processing tech.

Two page spread.........
There's a reason why print media is suffering today. By the time it appears, events have often outstripped it. I'm sure your two-page spread is very interesting, but how long ago was it written? In today's world, a lot can change in a month, or even a week. Just ask a former Lehman Bros. employee.
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post #16 of 53
2/12/09 at 12:33am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

welp...looks like it's official now per the press release
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post #17 of 53
2/12/09 at 8:39am
Thread Starter 

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

They are out of the Display Technology business completely and will focus on "audio".

I'm a little uneasy having a brand new TV from a company that's giving up on making TVs. It's mostly irrational: it's not as if I ever contacted Sony for the six years I had my WEGA.

It's not a good sign for the HDTV technology in general. By all accounts Pioneer has the best "blacks" and contrast ratio for current HDTVs, this will reduce (but no eliminate) competitive pressure on improving those TV traits.
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post #18 of 53
2/12/09 at 9:59am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

More recent news about it: Pioneer to exit flat TV market, cut 10,000 jobs - News Wires - CNBC.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Why did plasma fail?
I'm sure there's many reasons, including these...........
Compared to LCD, plasmas use much more electricity.
Plasmas put out a lot of heat.
Compared to LCD, plasmas are heavy.
The glass screen reflects way too much (my personal favorite gripe).
Plasmas, especially Pioneer, costs too much, compared to other technologies.
I also hear they are very expensive to repair.
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post #19 of 53
2/12/09 at 10:40pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
More recent news about it: Pioneer to exit flat TV market, cut 10,000 jobs - News Wires - CNBC.com

I'm sure there's many reasons, including these...........
Compared to LCD, plasmas use much more electricity.
Plasmas put out a lot of heat.
Compared to LCD, plasmas are heavy.
The glass screen reflects way too much (my personal favorite gripe).
Plasmas, especially Pioneer, costs too much, compared to other technologies.
I also hear they are very expensive to repair.

It all may be true, but the Pioneer Elite plasmas are the top of the mountain!
Thursday morning I ordered a Pioneer Elite 111FD. I spent a long afternoon a few months ago comparing that HDTV to other HDTVs - Plasma & LCD. NOTHING came within a country mile of the Elite 111FD. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #20 of 53
2/13/09 at 4:49am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_HR
It all may be true, but the Pioneer Elite plasmas are the top of the mountain!
Thursday morning I ordered a Pioneer Elite 111FD. I spent a long afternoon a few months ago comparing that HDTV to other HDTVs - Plasma & LCD. NOTHING came within a country mile of the Elite 111FD. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you say so............though that's a matter of opinion.
It's MY opinion that the reflective screen makes plasmas not worth having!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That one thing keeps a plasma from ever being in my house. If I have to see everything reflected in the screen, I'll just keep my CRT.
But this is just my opinion, as the above is your opinion.
I guess it's good we don't all like the same things. Then there would only be one brand and model of tv, one brand, model, and color of car, one style and color of house, etc.
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post #21 of 53
2/13/09 at 5:24am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
If you say so............though that's a matter of opinion.
It's MY opinion that the reflective screen makes plasmas not worth having!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That one thing keeps a plasma from ever being in my house. If I have to see everything reflected in the screen, I'll just keep my CRT.
But this is just my opinion, as the above is your opinion.
I guess it's good we don't all like the same things. Then there would only be one brand and model of tv, one brand, model, and color of car, one style and color of house, etc.

It is your eyes & your $$$$ AND my eyes & my $$$$ & matters of opinion make the world go round. Enjoy your HDTV & I'll enjoy what is IMHO the BEST.
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post #22 of 53
2/13/09 at 7:32am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Boy, this is sad. Since they haven't turned a profit in years, even when the economy was good, I suppose it's inevitable.

Of course, I don't suppose I really helped- my Elite Pro 510HD (53" CRT) is still going strong- bought (for stupid money, compared to today's prices) in 2000. The picture still puts a smile on my face, particularly since it's utterly devoid of pixel structure. Just think- there's a whole generation of videophiles stepping up that will never know this.
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post #23 of 53
2/13/09 at 12:46pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Wow I didn't know Pioneer Inc. as a whole was losing money. My first piece of gear from them, an SX-6 stereo receiver I bought new in 1983, it still going strong (just needs a couple of its mechanical switches cleaned to get rid of some intermittant static) & has never been repaired; I also own two pairs of their home speakers, a dvd-audio player and have owned a home CD changer & car speakers & a car CD player.

I sure hope they pull through.

**************************************************

BTW: for those on a budget, their entry level speakers - remember, they build their own drivers so they can price their speaker systems accordingly - sound very good IMO for what they cost and just plain nice no matter what they cost.

Parts-express.com sells them (Circuit City did too until a few months ago).

The smallest bookshelf received a full review here and the writer seemed to like them quite a bit (I've heard these myself; I own the previous version of the 8" woofer model).

And don't forget about their hi-end EX series (up to @$9,000 per pair), and their ultra-hi-end loudspeakers built by their TAD division.

Parts-express also sells some of Pioneer's raw drivers, including the 8" B20 full range driver, a popular choice among many full range loudspeaker builders. The Fullrangedriver Forum.
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post #24 of 53
2/15/09 at 1:01pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

According to their announcement Pioneer is exiting their plasma TV's business in 2010. For now, they are not going out-of-business. As an incentive to sell their existing inventory Pioneer is offering a 5 year warranty. The announcement did not mention they would stop production on any other products. Plasma represented 14% of Pioner's overall business and was not turning a profit.

Pioneer makes top-of-the line products and unfortunately with the downturn in the economy higher priced TV's are not going to sell. It doesn't matter that it doesn't get any better. Right now the most important product feature is price and that is why WalMart and other cost conscious sellers are doing okay.

It is sad because we could loose some really good manufacturers that are replaced by marginal companies. Then when the economy picks up the consumer is struck with the marginal companies. Deflation takes its toll on the high end manufacturers.
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post #25 of 53
2/16/09 at 2:25pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Here's a quote from today's Display Daily:

"And what happens to those gorgeous Kuro plasma TVs? Presently, 200 of Pioneer's best PDP engineers are now working at Panasonic's plasma labs to bring forth the next generation of Kuro displays. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Panasonic could simply take over the Kuro technology, lock, stock, and barrel -- that is, if HDTV sales start to pick up again. "
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post #26 of 53
2/16/09 at 7:07pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
IHaving bought a Pioneer plasma two weeks ago, it doesn't make me especially comfortable thinking they may be going out of business. I'm not sure how warranty and repairs go in such a case (if ever needed).

Likewise: we bought a KRP-500A (not sure what the equivalent Elite model no. is) last month. And for the record I'm very happy with it.

Having said that, we've had a 434 for five years, no trouble at all to date (although one set of inputs seems a bit wonky now). So hopefully the 500A remains trouble-free as well.

It is rather sad, I guess consumers do chase the lowest price, and not many are prepared to pay a premium for a top-quality product. When the 500A was launched here at a trade show, the distributor had set up a display section in a darkened room, with the new 500A, the previous 5080, a Panasonic PY850, and a Sony Bravia LCD, all showing the same material, which had a lot of scenes with black backgrounds. Even the 5080 was noticeably "greyer" than the 500A, let alone the PY850. As for the LCD, it was positively "glowing".

As for power consumption, IIRC whilst plasma peaks at higher levels, that's when the scene is bright, and power consumption is lower if scenes are dark. The power rating is peak, not average, whereas LCDs with their constantly lit backlights consume power at the stated level regardless of what they are displaying. So the difference isn't as large as LCD manufacturers/salesmen say it is.
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post #27 of 53
2/18/09 at 2:52pm

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Pioneer have for some time produced the best Plasma TVs on the market. It is a real pitty that people arent prepared to pay for a quality product. This is a big loss for the TV market
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post #28 of 53
2/20/09 at 6:46am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Yes, Pioneer leaving the industry was a shocking.

But it makes sense, and I'm not sure the consumer will suffer. If you compare side-by-side Pioneer Kuro with Panasonic Plasmas, you find that Panasonic was already very close. Panasonic was already working with Pioneer on producing Plasma panels.

The killer was the price. Panasonic MSRP was, on average, 50% of the Kuro's. In other words, Panasonic already gives us almost as good PQ but at half the price. This stiff competition is the reason why Pioneer is calling it quits with Plasma's.

At CES, Panasonic looked goooood. Very good! They were slim (some under an inch in thickness). And they had uber technology (internet tv's, 2-way cable cards).

This will be blasphemy to many, but I think the industry and consumers will be better off with this passing of the batton.
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post #29 of 53
2/20/09 at 8:00am
Thread Starter 

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Jingle
The killer was the price. Panasonic MSRP was, on average, 50% of the Kuro's. In other words, Panasonic already gives us almost as good PQ but at half the price. This stiff competition is the reason why Pioneer is calling it quits with Plasma's.

At CES, Panasonic looked goooood. Very good! They were slim (some under an inch in thickness). And they had uber technology (internet tv's, 2-way cable cards).
Depends on what is meant by "almost as good". Professional reviews have indicated Panasonic is two generations behind Pioneer in performance. Maybe that's imperceptible to the typical consumer so it's "almost as good".

As for being super thin...most TVs go on a stand that's 12" deep, so what does going from 2" to 1" thick on a TV do for anyone? No real space is saved.

Ultimately, Consumers lose out somewhat by no longer having the best technology competing and driving other companies to innovate further.
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post #30 of 53
2/24/09 at 9:26am

Re: Pioneer quitting Plasma TVs, going out of business?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF

Ultimately, Consumers lose out somewhat by no longer having the best technology competing and driving other companies to innovate further.

Companies are still going to be competing against each other with LCD as they did for all of those years where we only had CRT. Not all CRTs were created equal for sure. The question is, how far can LCD go in terms of PQ? It should be interesting.
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