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How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

post #1 of 15
1/26/09 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 
My reciever was gotten at the dawn of DVD and had an line input for 5.1 but no Dolby Digital or DTS decoding capability.

So, my main DVD player had a 5.1 line out and that has been my system until HDTV.

One of my main requirements for a Blu-Ray player was 5.1 line outs. Fortunataly, I have one in the Panasonic BD30.

I noticed it does decode DTS soundtracks to the 5.1 lineouts.

I also know that it will downmix the 7.1 soundtracks to 5.1.

But I am wondering about the other format options mostly associated with lossless audio like PCM 5.1 or (is it called?) DTS HD audio master.

Will my 5.1 lineouts have increased quality from the lossless formats or can they only be utilized through bitstream or HDMI?

I have no BD's with lossless audio tracks yet and am just wondering.
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post #2 of 15
1/26/09 at 4:37pm

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rogers
My reciever was gotten at the dawn of DVD and had an line input for 5.1 but no Dolby Digital or DTS decoding capability.

So, my main DVD player had a 5.1 line out and that has been my system until HDTV.

One of my main requirements for a Blu-Ray player was 5.1 line outs. Fortunataly, I have one in the Panasonic BD30.

I noticed it does decode DTS soundtracks to the 5.1 lineouts.

I also know that it will downmix the 7.1 soundtracks to 5.1.

But I am wondering about the other format options mostly associated with lossless audio like PCM 5.1 or (is it called?) DTS HD audio master.

Will my 5.1 lineouts have increased quality from the lossless formats or can they only be utilized through bitstream or HDMI?

I have no BD's with lossless audio tracks yet and am just wondering.
From what I read regarding the BD-30, it does not decode any of the advanced audio codecs (DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HR, DD TrueHD), although it will pass them via bitstream whenever you upgrade the receiver.

You should be fine with PCM and can get lossless on those titles, although PCM isn't used much anymore.
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post #3 of 15
1/26/09 at 4:44pm

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

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post #4 of 15
1/26/09 at 7:54pm
Thread Starter 

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

This is the machine from the auction I got it from:

Panasonic DMP-BD30K 1080p Blu-ray Disc Player - eBay (item 250350461864 end time Jan-26-09 14:33:17 PST)

Perhaps it being a 30K indicates it's a 5.1 line out machine.
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post #5 of 15
1/26/09 at 10:07pm

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

I don't have a BD30 but I know they DO have 5.1 analog outputs. Now firmware may have changed things since when these were new, but back then the BD30 only put out decoded *lossy* audio on the 5.1 analog jacks. I am pretty sure this has changed in the meantime, though is still quite limited. "K" just means "black" in Panny model lingo, since silver is also available in some markets.
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post #6 of 15
1/27/09 at 1:29am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigF
I don't have a BD30 but I know they DO have 5.1 analog outputs. Now firmware may have changed things since when these were new, but back then the BD30 only put out decoded *lossy* audio on the 5.1 analog jacks. I am pretty sure this has changed in the meantime, though is still quite limited. "K" just means "black" in Panny model lingo, since silver is also available in some markets.
Wouldn't they output PCM lossless through the analog outs?
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post #7 of 15
1/27/09 at 2:15am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Adkins
Wouldn't they output PCM lossless through the analog outs?
The only thing comes out of analog outs is analog - hence the name. PCM or bitstream are passed though digital outputs. But I think what you are really asking is will the player play back lossless multichannel PCM sound.
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post #8 of 15
1/27/09 at 6:40am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
The only thing comes out of analog outs is analog - hence the name. PCM or bitstream are passed though digital outputs. But I think what you are really asking is will the player play back lossless multichannel PCM sound.
It should, since PCM requires no decoding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rogers
But I am wondering about the other format options mostly associated with lossless audio like PCM 5.1 or (is it called?) DTS HD audio master.

Will my 5.1 lineouts have increased quality from the lossless formats or can they only be utilized through bitstream or HDMI?
First, I should note you can't do bitstreaming via analog. But if what I'm reading is correct, your player will decode DD and DD+ as well as DTS, and output those and lossless PCM through the 5.1 analogs. In addition, DTS-HD and Master Audio tracks already have an embedded 1.5mbps DTS "core" track that will also be decoded and sent through the analogs. Since Blu-ray uses higher bitrates than DVD even on vanilla DD and DTS tracks, the quality should be higher.

In summary: For a 5.1 analog connection DD and DTS will work as usual, you will get full-quality PCM 5.1 tracks if they are available, but TrueHD and DTS-HD:MA will be output lossy (but higher-quality than DVD) versions.
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post #9 of 15
1/27/09 at 6:55am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

I had a BD-30. It's a great machine. You can enjoy DD, DTS, and PCM soundtracks through the analog outs.

The only thing you're missing out on is DTS-MA and Dolby True HD. If or when you upgrade your receiver, you'll be able to listen to all of the new audio formats.

-R
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post #10 of 15
1/27/09 at 6:56am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Blacklow
In summary: For a 5.1 analog connection DD and DTS will work as usual, you will get full-quality PCM 5.1 tracks if they are available, but TrueHD and DTS-HD:MA will be output lossy (but higher-quality than DVD) versions.

That is correct.

If you are not already at version 2.6, you should update to the latest firmware as well. It addresses a few issues with BD playback and improves DVD playback.

DMP-BD30 Firmware Download | Blu-ray Disc Player | Digital AV | Consumer Products | Support | Panasonic Global
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post #11 of 15
1/27/09 at 10:28am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Sorry to hijack Michael's thread...but I have a side-question on this same topic.

I recently tried to watch the BD of Mamma Mia! on my Panny BD-10. My player uses the 5.1 analog outs to an older Sony STR-DE-445 receiver.

As has been explained above, the analog outs have been providing a gloriously wonderful conduit for the lossless audio tracks on all the BDs I've played--until Mamma Mia!

The soundtrack sounds distorted--both music and dialogue. Please, no cracks about the film itself (there's already a lengthy love/hate discussion taking place in the official review thread! ). But, I'm wondering what's wrong.

The Mamma Mia! soundtrack is a DTS-HD MA format. I have played a number of these soundtracks on this system configuration with good results. The BD 10 doesn't decode DTS-HD MA but the results on all other discs (up to this point) have been terrific. While not as good as DTS-HD tracks (which the player will decode) they are still clear and more-than-serviceable. Mamma Mia! sounds bad enough that even my wife (who rarely notices such things) commented "Why does it sound SO bad? Is there something wrong with it?!?"

I can tell you that I have yet to update my firmware for the player to version 2.4. This is next on my list of things-to-do. I was going to do that before writing this note...but couldn't help myself when I saw this discussion this afternoon.

If anyone has any thoughts on this situation, I'd appreciate hearing them.
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post #12 of 15
1/27/09 at 12:29pm
Thread Starter 

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow
That is correct.

If you are not already at version 2.6, you should update to the latest firmware as well. It addresses a few issues with BD playback and improves DVD playback.

DMP-BD30 Firmware Download | Blu-ray Disc Player | Digital AV | Consumer Products | Support | Panasonic Global

I bought the player refurbished and the firmware was already at 2.6 upon receipt.

I wonder why a lossless track gets bumped down to lossy instead of just being unable to be decoded to the analog outs. If the decoding is pretty much the same, some sort of processing should be necessary to make downconvert lossless to analog (i.e. more work).

Or maybe the entire encoding is different and making it possible to be heard on the analog outs is an entire conversion to a more conventional 5.1 track that can be decoded to analog 5.1 out.
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post #13 of 15
1/27/09 at 1:24pm

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rogers
I bought the player refurbished and the firmware was already at 2.6 upon receipt.

I wonder why a lossless track gets bumped down to lossy instead of just being unable to be decoded to the analog outs. If the decoding is pretty much the same, some sort of processing should be necessary to make downconvert lossless to analog (i.e. more work).

Or maybe the entire encoding is different and making it possible to be heard on the analog outs is an entire conversion to a more conventional 5.1 track that can be decoded to analog 5.1 out.


It doesn't get bumped down, the the old DTS and DD are present on the disc. They get decoded just like they did on a DVD.
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post #14 of 15
1/27/09 at 1:26pm

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon

If anyone has any thoughts on this situation, I'd appreciate hearing them.


Maybe it is an issue with the disc. If the firmware update doesn't fix it, maybe try exchanging the BD for a new one.
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post #15 of 15
1/28/09 at 6:14am

Re: How much advanced BD soundtracks are utilized on player 5.1 line outs

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow
Maybe it is an issue with the disc. If the firmware update doesn't fix it, maybe try exchanging the BD for a new one.

I upgraded the firmware on the BD-10 last night from 2.4 to 2.5 and that did the trick.

Mamma Mia! went from sounding wonky in an annoying, distorted way to sounding wonky in that weird, Abba-like way!

I guess part of the "playability & stability" issues had to do with issues with particular soundtracks.
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