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Caprica - Page 6

post #151 of 349
3/9/10 at 5:26am
Point taken, with some reservations. The writers may just surprise the both of us.
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post #152 of 349
3/9/10 at 11:50am

You read a little more into my post than I said.  I didn't say that STO was mentioned in BSG.  Don't know that I need to spoilerize the point anymore but
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 I was referring only to the fact that the religion of the monotheistic cylons was the result of the influence of the STO, unless the writers are going to throw a curveball.  All we can guess is that we are seeing the creation of the cylon race and culture in its infancy.  Zoe gave the cylons their self awareness; Daniel (with an assist from Vergis) gave them the ability to live outside cyberspace; and the STO appear to give them the basis in their religion.  Having a belief system and a religion all their own, while maybe not a motivation for the actions of the individual cylons, certainly allowed them to believe that they were more enlightened than humans and not their slaves.
Knowing that the STO will play a large part in what makes the Cylons Cylons, gives me encouragement to wait out the developing story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Dial View Post




Soldiers of the One aren't mentioned at all in BSG, other than
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
the infinity symbol the Cylons displayed during the mass funeral in "Islanded in a Stream of Stars."
There was a group in BSG called the Sons of Ares, but they aren't related at all.

Unless, however, you are referring to Baltar,
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
and his monotheistic cult
I guess what I'm saying is we don't know anything about STO, other than what we've seen in Caprica.
 



Edited by Charlie Campisi - 3/10/10 at 10:31am
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post #153 of 349
3/9/10 at 3:13pm
I enjoy the universe of this series so much that I sit thru even the dullest episodes with a smile on my face. This is science fiction at its very finest, IMO.
 
More than the specifics of the plot, I am excited about finding out more about this world, or worlds, to be precise. I hope we get to see all 12 planets at some point, and that their cultures are disctinct, without falling into Trek-style stereotypes.
 
Even more, this is some serious wishful thinking, but if the series could involve some political interplay between the worlds, I would be in heaven. But I understand that's not the story they wish to tell, though anything could happen.
 
Just wishing out loud. Already love the show as it.

--
H
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post #154 of 349
3/9/10 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Campisi View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 I was referring only to the fact that the religion of the monotheistic cylons was the result of the influence of the STO

Given what we know from BSG, I'd say it's more likely that:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The last surviving five skinjobs from the original earth are actually behind STO.
I haven't seen The Plan, so it's possible something in that contradicts my theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem View Post

Even more, this is some serious wishful thinking, but if the series could involve some political interplay between the worlds, I would be in heaven. But I understand that's not the story they wish to tell, though anything could happen.

This is what frustrates me about the show. There is an inherent tension to the concept that the father of the last Battlestar commander was a peer of the inventor of the Cylons.

On one hand, it sets William Adama's childhood artificially far back: if the bombing of the maglev took place 58 years before the events of the miniseries, and William Adama was eleven at the time of the bombing, that makes him 69 when the miniseries opens. A perfectly plausible retirement age, but 13 years older than Edward James Olmos at the time. I never got 69 from his performance.

On the other hand, it sets the timeline several years before things really start to get interesting (BSG spoilers):
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Fall of the Twelve Colonies we can assume as the year zero line of demarcation. "Caprica" takes place in year 58 BTF. The Cylons went into exile 40 years BTF. The first Cylon War lasted 4,571 days, or roughly twelve and a half years, which means it started ~52.5 years BTF, or roughly five and a half years after the start of the show. The twelve colonies, united by the common threat of the Cylon menace, unify under the Articles of Confederation several months later.

This tells us a couple things: 1) Daniel Graystone is the biggest fuck-up in the twelve colonies. His invention manages to go from military asset to threat against the species in less than a decade. 2) This show, which is designed specifically to be a peace time complement to BSG, will probably last no more than five and half years of story time, assuming Syfy renews it after this season. 3) The stuff I'm most interested in likely takes place directly after where this series is to end.
All of that being said, quality television is quality television. I'd love to see a TV miniseries built around Nico Cortez as Husker while also exploring the political forces at work in the war time.
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post #155 of 349
3/10/10 at 8:08am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

Given what we know from BSG, I'd say it's more likely that:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The last surviving five skinjobs from the original earth are actually behind STO.
I haven't seen The Plan, so it's possible something in that contradicts my theory.

Spoiler-info about the Final Five (for those who still haven't seen Season 4):

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Actually, the Final Five are still on their way from Earth at relativistic, subluminal velocities during this first season -- remember that they don't arrive in the Twelve Colonies until after the war has been going on for about a decade or thereabouts. Their journey only lasted a few years' shipbound time for them, but millennia in "real" time.

Some spoiler-info about The Plan:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Plan begins around two weeks before the destruction of the Colonies, after the Five have been "inserted" into Colonial life for about 30-35 years, or thereabouts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

This is what frustrates me about the show. There is an inherent tension to the concept that the father of the last Battlestar commander was a peer of the inventor of the Cylons.

On one hand, it sets William Adama's childhood artificially far back: if the bombing of the maglev took place 58 years before the events of the miniseries, and William Adama was eleven at the time of the bombing, that makes him 69 when the miniseries opens. A perfectly plausible retirement age, but 13 years older than Edward James Olmos at the time. I never got 69 from his performance.

As a matter of fact, if you download a copy of the leaked pilot script draft, it turns out that the original timeline-setting for Caprica was 51 years before the Fall of the Colonies -- this got moved way back to 58 years at some point in between shooting and broadcast. Taking seven years off of Edward James Olmos's age during BSG is much, much more plausible -- this bugged the living crap out of me, too.

Glad to see I'm not the only one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

On the other hand, it sets the timeline several years before things really start to get interesting (BSG spoilers):

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Fall of the Twelve Colonies we can assume as the year zero line of demarcation. "Caprica" takes place in year 58 BTF. The Cylons went into exile 40 years BTF. The first Cylon War lasted 4,571 days, or roughly twelve and a half years, which means it started ~52.5 years BTF, or roughly five and a half years after the start of the show. The twelve colonies, united by the common threat of the Cylon menace, unify under the Articles of Confederation several months later.

This tells us a couple things: 1) Daniel Graystone is the biggest fuck-up in the twelve colonies. His invention manages to go from military asset to threat against the species in less than a decade. 2) This show, which is designed specifically to be a peace time complement to BSG, will probably last no more than five and half years of story time, assuming Syfy renews it after this season. 3) The stuff I'm most interested in likely takes place directly after where this series is to end.
All of that being said, quality television is quality television. I'd love to see a TV miniseries built around Nico Cortez as Husker while also exploring the political forces at work in the war time.

Totally, and even this might be possible if the series does something of a "New Caprica" timeline-jump down the road, to during the days of the war. Or else Syfy might commission a parallel TV movie or miniseries going into greater depth about the war, and featuring the slightly-older Billy Husker...there are several possibilities, here.

That said, for myself, I've long wanted to see the social and political seeds behind the original Cylon uprising planted and brought to germination, and this seems to be exactly what the show is giving us right now, so I'm pretty happy with that aspect. Examining where this will eventually lead to is why I'm hooked on this show -- for example, Daniel outright proclaiming that the Cylon "race" will have no civil rights whatsoever, and will essentially become slaves to humanity, got me more excited than I've been in ages.

The slower pace helps things significantly, I think, and serves to lay that groundwork gradually and deliberately. I can certainly see Joseph Adama somehow getting involved in the nascent Cylon civil-rights movement, and taking this to the endpoint we know is coming.


(EDIT: Also, it was the "Articles of Colonization" that unified the 12 Colonies. )


Edited by joshEH - 3/10/10 at 1:22pm
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post #156 of 349
3/10/10 at 8:45am
Josh, you may want to spoiler your first response there about the sub-light travel, etc.  For the time being, as annoying as it is, we're keeping everything BSG-related in spoiler tags.

Also, you are correct about the source the STO:

 


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

It can't really be the Final Five, as they are still 50-odd years out, hanging out on the resurrection ship, listening to the same old jokes from each other.  I believe this is even beyond the redline, so even if someone in the colonies had a jump drive (Vergis, maybe?), I don't think they could come in contact with the Final Five.

That would actually be cool, if Vergis invents FTL (and Daniel steals that, too!).  I think it was implied that FTL was a newer technology in the mini-series, but I don't think it was ever specified when it was developed.

I think the source of the STO is meant to be One God (he hates it when we call him that).


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post #157 of 349
3/10/10 at 1:09pm
Woops...fixed it. Hadn't heard about the BSG spoiler-masking, but I'll be doing it from here on out.

Also, regarding the development of FTL travel (spoilerized, just in case):

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Apparently, coming up at some future point on Caprica, it's going to be established that the Twelve Colonies are in fact spread across three different star systems in a trinary/ternary cluster, sharing some orbits with each other (as seen in the broadcast version of the Caprica pilot -- Gemenon is seen hanging in Caprica's sky).

According to Jane Espenson herself, this was actually set up in The Plan, per the Basestar Hybrid's dialogue: "And when the machine stops, time was an illusion that we created free will. Twelve battles, three stars, and yet we are countless as the bodies in which we dwell, are both parent and infinite children in perfect copies. No degradation."

(Another Espenson Twitter-comment on this subject can be found here.)

Which pretty much means that there would have to be some regular form of FTL transit in place, just to travel from star to star, without time and some cultural lag setting in -- for example, Baxter Sarno's program is regularly transmitted to the "twelve worlds," probably using some type of FTL tachyon relay, I'd assume.

That said, as we've seen countless times throughout our own history, it's highly probable that the upcoming Cylon War likely kick-starts a great deal of refinement and upgrading of Colonial FTL technology (for military puposes), which carries over into the BSG time period to some extent.


Edited by joshEH - 3/10/10 at 1:23pm
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post #158 of 349
3/10/10 at 3:15pm
Yup.  If you read "Serge's Twitter" (I checked it out a few times just for laughs), he says that the colonies orbit four stars in the same cluster, but that really, it's three star stars, plus an outlier.  I guess given that fact, FTL transit must be in place--relativistic travel would just be far too slow (even from the traveller's point of view).

Interesting.
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post #159 of 349
3/10/10 at 10:43pm
All you BSG fans ought to get a kick out of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQ0bqsJSJ8
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post #160 of 349
3/10/10 at 11:55pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt View Post

This is what frustrates me about the show. There is an inherent tension to the concept that the father of the last Battlestar commander was a peer of the inventor of the Cylons.

On one hand, it sets William Adama's childhood artificially far back: if the bombing of the maglev took place 58 years before the events of the miniseries, and William Adama was eleven at the time of the bombing, that makes him 69 when the miniseries opens. A perfectly plausible retirement age, but 13 years older than Edward James Olmos at the time. I never got 69 from his performance.
 

Yes and no, IMHO.  He doesn't seem 69 by our perception,  but given that the Colonies appear to have better tech than we do, and therefore presumably better medical science and nutrition, who's to say 69 isn't the new 55 (so to speak)?  So for them retirement age, even for a military commander, is 70 and life expectancy could be close to 100.  And in any case some 69-yr olds today are rather spry individuals.

But yes, the Adama-Graystone connection is one heckuva coincidence.  But by their nature, prequel stories (or even sequels) always have to create all sorts of coincidences, in order for the later story (writing-wise) to ride on and be connected to the earlier one.  Just think Star Wars and the whole business of C-3PO's creator, and indeed the whole saga could be sub-titled as "the adventures of R2-D2".
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post #161 of 349
3/15/10 at 4:07pm

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR View Post

For the incredibly small number of Caprica viewers that haven't seen BSG, I'll use spoilers.

Thanks.  I recently caught up on Caprica and just started reading this thread.  I still haven't finished the second season on BSG, but do plan to eventually finish seeing the series when I have the time.  I am hoping that I know enough to appreciate Caprica and that plot points that come in the rest of BSG won't be spoiled. 

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post #162 of 349
3/15/10 at 7:22pm
I am probably going against the grain here, but I would strongly recommend staying away from Caprica until you're done with BSG. So far, Caprica has had no spoiler that I can think of. But it does spoils BSG in a different way: Caprica humanizes the Cylons of BSG by showing their human origins, and undermines some of their implacability.

When BSG begins, although we know that Cylons are human creations, they were so mysterious they might as well have been aliens. In many ways, they were. I think that mystery is an essential aspect of BSG that Caprica undermines.

Caprica undermines BSG in a even bigger way by creating sympathy for Cylons. Take the board room scene where Graystone order the U-something to tear its arm off, after gloating about creating a new race of slaves. If you found that scene disturbing in any way (and you should), then Caprica has already altered your view of Cylons in BSG away from what it should be. But you're not supposed to feel that way about Cylons before you watch BSG, or at the point where you are in BSG, if ever.

No matter how good a job Caprica does of avoiding BSG spoilers, BSG was simply not meant to be watched in conjunction with, or after Caprica, and I believe it will not be the same. 

--
H
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post #163 of 349
3/15/10 at 7:40pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem View Post

I am probably going against the grain here, but I would strongly recommend staying away from Caprica until you're done with BSG. So far, Caprica has had no spoiler that I can think of. But it does spoils BSG in a different way: Caprica humanizes the Cylons of BSG by showing their human origins, and undermines some of their implacability.

When BSG begins, although we know that Cylons are human creations, they were so mysterious they might as well have been aliens. In many ways, they were. I think that mystery is an essential aspect of BSG that Caprica undermines.

Caprica undermines BSG in a even bigger way by creating sympathy for Cylons. Take the board room scene where Graystone order the U-something to tear its arm off, after gloating about creating a new race of slaves. If you found that scene disturbing in any way (and you should), then Caprica has already altered your view of Cylons in BSG away from what it should be. But you're not supposed to feel that way about Cylons before you watch BSG, or at the point where you are in BSG, if ever.

No matter how good a job Caprica does of avoiding BSG spoilers, BSG was simply not meant to be watched in conjunction with, or after Caprica, and I believe it will not be the same. 

--
H

I would agree, going so far as to say that watching Caprica before/alongside BSG will *ruin* the BSG experience.

Regarding Holadem's comment specifically, I actually have a few friends who were basically rooting for the Cylons the entire time :)

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post #164 of 349
3/16/10 at 10:52am
I agree with Holadem and Josh.  Watch BSG first.  For the most part, when they make prequels, they are meant to be watched after the first movie/series airs, or for people that haven't watched it at all.  One of my neighbors showed their kids the Star Wars series in order from Ep 1 through 6.  I never understood that and figured it would ruin it for them.  Of course, the kids loved it anyway ... but knowing the experience they missed always bugged me. 
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post #165 of 349
3/16/10 at 4:51pm
According to The Hollywood Reporter, Syfy is developing another BSG spinoff project.

From the article:

Quote:

The network also is looking to order another "Battlestar"-related project. Details were slim, but [Syfy VP Mark] Stern said the title would mark a return to the franchise’s space-opera roots.
 

"We're looking for other ways to spin off 'Battlestar' beyond 'Caprica,' " he said. "That world is so rich. We're sitting down with (executive producer) Ron Moore and his team. It would not necessarily be a traditional series."


So...who else here was also hoping for a First Cylon War mini-series?? Also, according to multiple sources, the odds of Caprica's renewal for a second season are looking pretty damn good at this point.

Edited by joshEH - 3/16/10 at 9:24pm
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post #166 of 349
3/17/10 at 6:03am
Someone will have to do a STO/B5 Rangers mash-up at some time.  "We live for the One, we die for the One."
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post #167 of 349
3/17/10 at 2:09pm
I have been thoroughly enjoying watching Caprica

as a big fan of BSG, that is saying something!

Caprica feels very developed, mature and intricate, I am not sure I am completely understanding all the characters and their story arcs, but am definitely enjoying what I have seen so far....
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post #168 of 349
3/17/10 at 8:59pm
Ronald D. Moore comments on Caprica's renewal chances, and officially discusses Syfy's interest in a third BSG-universe project:

http://scifiwire.com/2010/03/caprica-season-two-bsg-sp.php

From the article:

Quote:
As for that other potential BSG-related project, Moore insisted it was "really nothing yet." Syfy approached him and producing partner David Eick, and it's still early stages. "[They] said, 'We have this concept for a format in which to do a show. Would you be interested?'" Moore recalled. "We kind of said, 'Yeah, that's interesting. What would it be?' And we had some conversations about what the parameters of the show would be. We're really at the very beginning of that whole process, so there's really nothing definitive yet, but we are sort of talking back and forth about what it might be. It'd be in this [BSG/Caprica] universe."

Whatever it is, Moore added, it won't necessarily be for TV or, for that matter, a theatrical release. "It's potentially something that may be not TV, or not TV exclusively," he said. "It's very fluid."
 
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post #169 of 349
3/18/10 at 10:39am


Quote:
Originally Posted by joshEH View Post

Ronald D. Moore comments on Caprica's renewal chances, and officially discusses Syfy's interest in a third BSG-universe project:

http://scifiwire.com/2010/03/caprica-season-two-bsg-sp.php

From the article:

 


I wonder if they'll do us the favor of writing it as if it were a Stargate series, since the SG writers are trying to write a BSG series with Universe. 
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post #170 of 349
3/19/10 at 6:11am
Sounds like the new project could be DVD movies which would then air on TV, not unlike Babylon 5's "Lost Tales" project (which unfortunately only saw one release) or BSG's Razor and The Plan. The description by SyFy a few days ago suggested something akin to an anthology.

SyFy and Universal probably also have an interest in keeping Moore happy, since having his work under their banner is a big feather in their cap.


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post #171 of 349
3/19/10 at 1:18pm
Yeah, this is along my own same lines of thought, too -- Universal will probably be producing either an anthology project of sorts, or else a new mini-series or series of interconnected telefilms; very likely for Blu-Ray/DVD release, followed by a TV broadcast (the same as with The Plan).

They're certainly trying to keep Moore onboard as much as possible, which is a good thing -- he's an expensive showrunner, but he brings a lot of prestige to the network. If they were to do, say, a First Cylon War project, the only "returning" cast member from the "Razor Flashbacks" (potentially) would be Nico Cortez as Billy Husker, but even then they could still go with an entirely new cast, if they wanted -- Colonial military personnel and the like; characters unaffiliated with either BSG or Caprica.

At the Paley Festival presentation the other night, Moore actually mentioned that the producers are considering six different "organic endpoints" for Caprica to finish out on, assuming it runs several seasons like BSG, and the start of the First Cylon War would almost certainly be one of these. According to Moore (and Galactica Sitrep), each endpoint is a "landmark event" within the timeline between the current present on the show, up through to the events of the BSG miniseries.
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post #172 of 349
3/19/10 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
 There has also been quite a bit of talk on an option for an animated version.  I'd be very interested in that.
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post #173 of 349
3/20/10 at 1:24pm
Same here -- in fact an animated project would be a way to tell stories way outside the usual BSG box, and not be constrained by budgetary issues, etc. Want to, say, go to ancient Kobol? Show the founding of the 12 Colonies, or life on the original Earth? Right there's your answer (and personally, I'd LOVE to get an adaptation of the recent BSG: The Final Five comic book series in this format).

You wouldn't even have to worry about aging actors, etc., if you want to bring back Adama and Tigh years from now. All kinds of possibilities.
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post #174 of 349
3/20/10 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
Last night's episode I thought was the best of the series so far.  Though Zoey has really turned into a completely unlikable brat of a character, which may be the point.. and the actress who plays her does a great job.  I love to hate her character, if that makes sense ;)
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post #175 of 349
3/20/10 at 3:33pm
Also, apparently Esai Morales announced at Paley Fest the other night that there's going to be a Sam Adama-centric episode called "The Dirt Eater" coming up.
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post #176 of 349
3/20/10 at 6:13pm
I actually thought last night's episode was entirely composed of padding/filler. All of the characters ended the episode at the same place they began the episode. That being said, the V-world storyline kept my attention, and the psychological warfare between Daniel and the Zoe Avatar was absolutely riveting. The thing I find fascinating is that the Zoe Avatar is, for all intents and purposes, Zoe. But she doesn't have the complete picture of what the real Zoe knew when she died. Since the real Zoe tried to stop Ben, there's serious reason to believe that the real Zoe wouldn't be acting as the Zoe Avatar is acting. I know Alessandra Torresani has stated in interviews that she plays the two characters differently.
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post #177 of 349
3/20/10 at 7:00pm

I am starting to dislike Caprica for brooding Hamlet-like people with minimal action/comedy relief glimpses of what that Cylon will or can do and whether it is going to that place it wants to be shipped to and what it will do.  Zoe standup conflict with Dad, glimses of her refusals to let him know she's in there and determined control of Cylone/slave operation were great.  The setting has been set--can we not get on with more action/conflict driven story line where a least someone does something more than setting a fire around his cylone or shoots a dog.  Does any go to the other colonies or are they staying put in gangster town.  What about that lab assistant who programmed Zoe/Cylon to do stuff human...did some kill him because he does stuff that influence her evolution, or what. I wish some of the plot lines can be edited to still give the point of the episodes and character driven plots with revelations rather than taking upteen more episodes to get to the point of Cylons creation--more than one only being created.Who did it. Zoe?

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post #178 of 349
3/20/10 at 7:35pm
I'm actually really liking Caprica so far.   I must say I really glad that some of the folks giving up on the series 8 shows in weren't aroung during S1 of Stargate and Babylon 5 or even the first season of DS9 otherwise we would have had a lot more Firefly's One and Done.

Even with it's so called faults it's more intriguing than 95% of the dreck that's out there. 
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post #179 of 349
3/20/10 at 9:42pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Norman View Post

I'm actually really liking Caprica so far.   I must say I really glad that some of the folks giving up on the series 8 shows in weren't aroung during S1 of Stargate and Babylon 5 or even the first season of DS9 otherwise we would have had a lot more Firefly's One and Done.

Even with it's so called faults it's more intriguing than 95% of the dreck that's out there. 
 

That last statement is made at least once in each TV show thread, and I'm beginning to believe it's a mathematical impossibility for all of them to be true. ;)


I liked this episode of Caprica. I really liked Zoe and Daniel going at it.I thought the episode explained well why Zoe's doing what she's doing. I think what I most liked about it is the characters acted intelligently and reasonably. Oftentimes when you're watching TV, you end up thinking "Well, the character could do or say that, but it isn't likely." Everything seemed organic in this episode to me.
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post #180 of 349
3/20/10 at 10:08pm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco View Post




That last statement is made at least once in each TV show thread, and I'm beginning to believe it's a mathematical impossibility for all of them to be true. ;)


 

Well, you may very well be right about the first half of the statement, but the last part is perfectly reasonable to believe since it comes from the perspective of a single individual and not a group-think (unless of course it's the same person making the statement every time).

Now from my side -- I hate all reality shows including Races, Idols. Trump, Housewives, Models, Cooking shows, so that immediately puts Caprica into the top 50%.   I like Caprica better than any of the current incarnations of L&O, CSI, NCIS, etc.   I don't have any sitcoms on my watch list.     The only current show on my TIVO list that I have above Caprica is House.   Dexter will be when it comes back, but not now.   

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