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Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far - Page 2

post #31 of 93
1/27/09 at 3:44pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

For what it's worth, shows like Lost and Heroes have 5 episodes per Blu-ray disc so I'd imagine that this release could do at least that many too. Although I guess that could vary based on where and how the original versions are on there.
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post #32 of 93
1/27/09 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Travis, I also wonder though, Star Trek episodes are 51 minutes long and modern shows are 42 minutes. I wonder if those 9 minutes or so will make that much difference in how much they can fit.
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post #33 of 93
1/27/09 at 4:03pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

^I suppose that's possible but they fit 7 (!) episodes on one of the discs of Supernatural: Season Three Blu-ray set and, to my eyes, there was no problem with quality. The show only has a DD 5.1 track but I would think that if they can fit 7 episodes on one disc then there shouldn't be a problem with the Trek episodes running a little longer than today's shows.
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post #34 of 93
1/27/09 at 4:04pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Keep in mind 4:3 AR's take up less disc space than 1:78 or 1:85 too.
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post #35 of 93
1/27/09 at 8:42pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
Travis, I also wonder though, Star Trek episodes are 51 minutes long and modern shows are 42 minutes. I wonder if those 9 minutes or so will make that much difference in how much they can fit.
It will to a point--5 episodes will be as long as 6 episodes of a normal show. But other discs have managed more, and at full frame size.
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post #36 of 93
1/28/09 at 5:49am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Very cool. I'll buy it all. But it will be over a long time period since I just picked up the SD for everything over the past 6 years or so.
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post #37 of 93
1/28/09 at 9:01am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Yes, i think that is what he meant and I hope he is right. I hope we get the 5 per disc at least.

For folks who own various TV series on Blu-ray......

How many hour long episodes do they fit onto discs usually??
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post #38 of 93
1/28/09 at 9:59am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper
How many hour long episodes do they fit onto discs usually??
I'd say it's usually 5 episodes or about 3 and a half to 4 hours.
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post #39 of 93
1/28/09 at 10:21am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

I just looked up Smallvile season 7.............

20 episodes on 3 discs !!!! 6 or 7 to a disc ??? Holy cow!

The TOS Trek episodes are 51 minutes long and the smallville maybe only 43, but still that would allow at least 5 trek episodes per disc---
Go for it Pramount---less is sometimes better!!


Whoops, didn't read some of the previous posts---it's already been stated they get up to 6 or 7 modern shows per disc.
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post #40 of 93
1/28/09 at 5:05pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

People are forgetting that Blu-ray has a dual layer storage capacity of 50 gigabytes, compared to HD-DVD which only had 15 gigabytes single layer, which is a better than 3-to-1 ratio!
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post #41 of 93
1/29/09 at 6:43am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Why are you comparing dual-layered Blu-ray discs to single-layered HD-DVDs? HD-DVD can be dual layered, too, in which case their capacity is 30 GB, so Blu-ray has two-thirds again the capacity of HD-DVD. A pretty significant difference, but nowhere near three-to-one.
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post #42 of 93
1/29/09 at 8:50am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

I think that early on, combo discs were limited to single layers on each side (or at least, on the HD DVD side); I'm not sure which way Paramount went with the TOS discs. I think they were dual layer, but I'm not sure.
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post #43 of 93
1/29/09 at 9:54am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
I think that early on, combo discs were limited to single layers on each side (or at least, on the HD DVD side)...
It depends, also, on whether it's a flipper or single-sided. The single-sided were limited to three layers total, while the flippers could have two of each on a side. (Don't know if there was an initial single-layer "teething" period or not.)
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post #44 of 93
1/29/09 at 9:59am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATimson
It depends, also, on whether it's a flipper or single-sided. The single-sided were limited to three layers total, while the flippers could have two of each on a side. (Don't know if there was an initial single-layer "teething" period or not.)

I'm really confused.

The "combo" discs under discussion are ALWAYS "flippers," aren't they--DVD data on one side and HD-DVD data on the other?

And if I'm not mistaken, no single-sided disc of ANY format can have three layers. Dual-layer is the maximum, isnt it? I recall that during the format war, there was talk of manufacturing a trilple-layered HD-DVD to (nearly) match the capacity of a dual-layered Blu-ray disc, but nothing ever came of it, as far as I'm aware.
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post #45 of 93
1/29/09 at 10:02am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafink
The "combo" discs under discussion are ALWAYS "flippers," aren't they--DVD data on one side and HD-DVD data on the other?
Supposedly not. But then, I waited for the war to end, so I have never actually seen an HD-DVD disc--combo or otherwise--in person.
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post #46 of 93
1/29/09 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

I have the HD-DVD of Star Trek Season One which is why I was mentioning the length of the episodes and that each HD-DVD disc had 3 episodes per HD-DVD side. The SD side had the same 3 episodes, plus the trailers and extras spread over the 10 discs.

So each side was specifically HD on one side and SD on the other. So I was wondering that BD discs have more capacity and that they might have more room to fit more episodes per side.
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post #47 of 93
1/29/09 at 10:31am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

According to High-Def Digest, the Freedom discs came out as "hybrids" - single layers of DVD and HD DVD on a single side. Not many people bit, though, because the prices were well out of line with what Americans are used to paying - $40 SRP for single 25 minute episodes and Amazon wasn't giving them the customary 30% discount. I'm not sure how much of that high price was manufacturing and how much was "Japan has crazy prices".
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post #48 of 93
1/29/09 at 12:33pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson Au
I have the HD-DVD of Star Trek Season One which is why I was mentioning the length of the episodes and that each HD-DVD disc had 3 episodes per HD-DVD side. The SD side had the same 3 episodes, plus the trailers and extras spread over the 10 discs.

So each side was specifically HD on one side and SD on the other. So I was wondering that BD discs have more capacity and that they might have more room to fit more episodes per side.

I suppose it's also possible they will re-encode the episodes to larger sizes and higher bitrates on BD50's while keeping to three episodes per disc.

My sheer guess is though they will add more episodes per disc even if re-encoded.
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post #49 of 93
1/29/09 at 2:39pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafink
Why are you comparing dual-layered Blu-ray discs to single-layered HD-DVDs? HD-DVD can be dual layered, too, in which case their capacity is 30 GB, so Blu-ray has two-thirds again the capacity of HD-DVD. A pretty significant difference, but nowhere near three-to-one.
I've got several hundred HD-DVD titles and NONE of them are 30 Gigabyte dual-layered(to my knowledge)! Toshiba pretty much threw that spec out during the format wars in order to answer Sony's 50 Gigabyte Blu-ray capacity. Does anybody in the Forum Membership actually HAVE a 30-Gigabyte HD-DVD title in their library? If so, I'd like to hear from them.
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post #50 of 93
1/29/09 at 3:19pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

I think you're confusing HD-DVD with Blu-ray. It wasn't until several months after the Blu-ray format was first introduced that any dual-layered discs were released, but HD-DVD had dual-layered discs ready right out of the gate, and tons of them were released, including such high-profile titles as Apollo 13, Batman Begins, all the Harry Potter films, King Kong, Ocean's Eleven, and Serenity, to name but a few--there were dozens, perhaps hundreds, more. Dual-layered HD-DVDs were quite common.
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post #51 of 93
1/29/09 at 4:27pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukejosephchung
I've got several hundred HD-DVD titles and NONE of them are 30 Gigabyte dual-layered(to my knowledge)! Toshiba pretty much threw that spec out during the format wars in order to answer Sony's 50 Gigabyte Blu-ray capacity. Does anybody in the Forum Membership actually HAVE a 30-Gigabyte HD-DVD title in their library? If so, I'd like to hear from them.

I don't know of a single major HD DVD release that was single layer. Every HD DVD I have is a 30 gig. The Star Trek: TOS HD DVD was double layer on both sides.

Doug
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post #52 of 93
1/29/09 at 5:54pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

When comparing ST Season 1 to other current shows, don't forget the number of episodes. Most recent shows have at most 22 episodes per year, where Season 1 of ST had 29 episodes!

Another Doug
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post #53 of 93
1/30/09 at 9:57am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

^^Right.

TOS season 1 has 29 'hours' of episodes--so if they could get a least get 5 per disc---they'd only need 6. That's better than ten for sure.
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post #54 of 93
2/5/09 at 10:50am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

If the original broadcast versions are not included in HD I'll be giving this a pass.
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post #55 of 93
2/5/09 at 1:25pm

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Yes, I too want to see those 19th generation prints used for the space shots in HD................

And cleaning them up will surely help the fact that in dozens of shots parts of the Enterprise simply are not there.
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post #56 of 93
2/6/09 at 7:53am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
According to High-Def Digest, the Freedom discs came out as "hybrids" - single layers of DVD and HD DVD on a single side. Not many people bit, though, because the prices were well out of line with what Americans are used to paying - $40 SRP for single 25 minute episodes and Amazon wasn't giving them the customary 30% discount. I'm not sure how much of that high price was manufacturing and how much was "Japan has crazy prices".


I can confirm this; I reviewed one of the FREEDOM combos, and it was indeed a single layer of DVD and a single layer of HD DVD, on one side and artwork on the other. It worked beautifully. Only a single layer was needed because there was less than an hour of programming, so I don't know whether that could have been extended to dual layer. Might have, had Warner not killed the format.

The prices on the FREEDOM discs were indeed nuts; they did eventually release the whole series, I think, on the combo HD DVD format, with the last few volumes being amongst the very last HD DVDs to be released, but I never saw any kind of good deal on them. The FREEDOM 2 disc I reviewed was pretty interesting so I may pop for the Blu-ray box set (though word of mouth is that it gets pretty bad in the 2nd half).
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post #57 of 93
2/6/09 at 10:49am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper
Yes, I too want to see those 19th generation prints used for the space shots in HD................

And cleaning them up will surely help the fact that in dozens of shots parts of the Enterprise simply are not there.

Nevertheless.
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post #58 of 93
2/6/09 at 10:55am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Right.

The thoroughly cleaned-up, color corrected, contrast-perfected brand new HD transfers of the live-action should be attached to the same 17 repetative super-dirty, super-grainy, non-specific to the episode, where sometimes the ship isn't even all there-----FX shots or
some folks won't buy the season sets.

There it is------accept it Paramount!!!

And if you read the opening post of this thread----they have----and are including the original FX versions.
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post #59 of 93
2/6/09 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

Jay, if you have not seen the high definition HD-DVD set of the first season, then you've not seen what the optical effects look like in HD. Not that I am putting them down, we all know that they are made with many layers that degrade them and we do see the Enterprise edges sometimes dissolve away!

It's not a fair measure, but during the end credits of the each episode, the HD-DVD's use the original end credits, so you can see the still frames they use for the backgrounds that include optical effects of the Enterprise. Some of those shots look pretty bad. But as I said, it's not a fair measure as it's a still. If it was moving, then I bet it will look better.

At any rate, I want to see the original broadcast episodes in hi-def too.
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post #60 of 93
2/6/09 at 11:20am

Re: Star Trek TOS Season 1 coming to BD in May-what we know so far

I never picked up the HD DVDs of TOS because of the price and although the UK discs were going for $30 on eBay last I checked (summer) I didn't bother because I heard the extras were in PAL format so I was hoping the BDs would eventually be announced. These are a definite purchase for me.
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