THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2 - Page 2

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

What?!!!

Gary "ughhh..." O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

You're -ing me!

Let us know what you hear behind Season 3. That will tell what the future holds for DVD releases. If it's the original music, no S3 or S4 DVDs. If it's Heyes music, then those will likely be released eventually on DVD.

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I appreciate your caveat Harry.
Where do you stand on Global Warming?

Better yet, explain for us, why the Heyes music would now be in syndication and not the original scores?

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You're my hero.*

I didn't intend those predictions to be hard and fast.

*I was a meteorologist in a former life; I guess I've forgotten how to be vague and obtuse.

One can only imagine what CBS/P had to pay Heyes to put the new scores into TV syndication...or...CBS/P paid them so much they figured they'd get more-than-DVD use out of them.

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I think it's safe to assume that if CBS had restored the original music they would have said so in the press release. You lose no customers by saying so and gain customers back you have lost.

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Interestingly on the same date, a box set comprising the complete S1 & S2 episodes from the series is being released at an MSRP of $139.99

I wonder how the soundtrack will be handled for this... will the initial releases be revised to reflect the new score, will the horrible altered soundtrack from S2 be revised to appease protesting consumers who would repurchase the series in packaged sets or will it be a mix and match of currently existing releases? Will the complete S2 differ from the individually released set?

Hmmm...

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I will be expensive for 'someone' to find answers to those questions!

I wonder if CBS/P would go to the trouble of putting out a box set of Season 1 & 2 if they didn't have plans to issue Seasons 3 & 4? (Could they have that much inventory to move?)

But...then again, I'm sitting here with a halfway-released HAVE GUN WILL TRAVEL.

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For the love a god people do not pre order this set until its professionally reviewed. If its altered and the sales come out resounding thud of failure maybe cbs will wise up and avoid this kind of release. Only the sting of a abject sale failure will make cbs wise up. Even if it means end of future releases The fugitive without its original score is only half the show, I couldnt image and would not buy some of my favorites (ie Wild Wild West, Ironside, Mission Impossible, I Spy, etc...) if there signature sound tracks were ripped out of them. They simplely wouldnt be the same. Please dont fall for the sucker punch, dont pre order and dont cross post trashing reviews on other un molested cbs classic sets like Hawaii Five 0 etc.... if you pre order fugitive s2 v2 and its got the same caca sound track you only got yourself to blame. Yeah Im in the same boat Thegreatoz is waiting in vain for S4 and behoned for Have Gun Will Travel too

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I suspect that if S.2, V.2 doesn't sell well (and the studio probably has lowered expectations for it as well), that will be the end of Fugitive releases. Not suggesting people buy an altered set to get more (altered) sets for the remaining seasons, just pointing out that I think bad sales this time will kill the DVD sets.

Very sad that one of the great shows in TV history would be treated so badly.

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Sam,

I think you're right about the future of the altered Fugitive releases. When the story (altered score) first broke here, my initial thought was that it would turn out to be more "smoke than fire" as far as as impacting sales #'s of the series. Since we don't have access to the #'s I'm just guessing here but I think that due to the publicity the story generated, it had a significant impact on sales of S2V1 & probably will have the same effect with V2.

Since this all happened, I had a hard time, even given the altered score, to wish for low sales and for CBS/P to discontinue the releases. After comparing many episodes with & without the original score, it's an easy call for me now.

Bob, just another guess here, but I'd think that there will be very few online pre-orders for S2V2 before an online review is posted. Fans of the show have been widely informed about the altered music at this point in time.

The curious thing to me is, how many sales #'s for S2V1 came from B&M sales and/or consumers that were unaware of the altered score? How many sales were made by the weekend-shopper consumers that remembered the show as a nostalgic memory and have not previously seen the episodes in syndication over the years? How many came from blind-buyers?


Sam, that sums it up for what I believe is almost everyone that's posted in the Fugitive threads.

As far as the altered episodes appearing on various broadcast carriers, I admit that it surprises me somewhat given the speed of airing the altered versions of the series shortly after DVD release.

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I can't believe they are airing The Fugitive Season 2 in syndication with the new scores. I guess cost-cutting, penny pinching CBS/Paramount is too stingy to do two digital masters for the episodes, one for DVD, the other for TV; the one for DVD will stand. It's a travesty; can you imagine classic movies televised this way? CBS/Paramount shows absolutely no respect to classic television whatsoever.

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I suspect that the neurosis over Season 2 music rights also spread to legal worry over syndication rights of the music for Season 2.

On the other hand, CBS/P might be exposing TV audiences to the Heyes music in an attempt to "mainstream" it...so it matches what buyers of the DVDs will hear.

Sadly, if love of the the Rugolo music is bred out of future generations of viewers, we posters here are going to become known as those "old geezer purists."

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Exactly. It's not penny pinching or arrogance (which makes no sense), it's the fear of lawsuit. Whether that fear is real or not.

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John,

You bring up a very good point that some of us on the TV Bd discussed sometime go and that's the comparisons of the movie/film DVD vs TV/DVD markets. While I realize that there's legal/clearance issues prevelant in TV/DVD that may not be as widespread in theatrical DVD releases (that's my perception but it may not be worth much ), it's always appeared to me that the TV/DVD industry is viewed somewhat differently vs film releases on DVD. For example, what if some of the box office successes of the past 10+ years had wholesale music scores altered or replaced? ie, Peter Jackson's King Kong ('05) or Titanic ('97), etc. Imagine what the consumer response would have resembled if that had occurred.

Maybe it's just my inaccurate take on this, but it's always seemed to me that the mainstream consumer's mindset is different when it comes to TV/DVD releases. I can't name anyone I know at work, etc, that would have read the disclaimers on the Fugitive releases to date, be it music or episode edits. Most consumers, imo, will say upon seeing a Fugitive set at their local store,


I don't know....maybe it's just me, but I think that most TV/DVD sets are viewed as "This stuff was on free TV once. As long as we can buy the DVD set we won't know the difference" (edited eps, music, time-compression, etc). The collectors here that will identify edits in the DVD releases are a small online community. I wish it were otherwise.

As for CBS/P, I have tried to look at the overall picture with their other TV releases....Mission:Impossible, Wild Wild West, Rawhide, etc. As we remember here, CBS/P stated that, given a choice of leaving the Fugitive vaulted due to (presumed) Capitol Music clearance issues or continuing with the show's release using a different score, they chose to go the "release" route. If I'd been a CBS/P employee at the time this was discussed, and had no knowlege of the Fugitive TV series, I could understand how the decision was made to go that route. I didnt agree with it but that's me. If I could have. I'd have picked any one of about 1000 shows instead of the Fugitive to get an altered score.

To me, all of this is an unfortunate part of being a TV/DVD collector of the older shows.

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The music rights to television shows are much more narrow when measured against motion picture music rights. Music has been edited from TV shows on VHS/DVD because the original agreements were for 'one-time/one-rerun' use only. Movies were acknowledged up front to be screened over and over again and, therefore, rights assigned accordingly, even before the advent of home video. When TV shows found their way to home video, a whole new can of worms opened up. [legal term]

National Geographic Magazine published their entire run from the first issue to 1999/2000 on CD-ROM. However, subsequent digital years of the magazine were brought to a grinding halt by a couple of photographers who sued...claiming their photos were intended for one-time-print publication ONLY. NGM has been fighting this one vigorously through the courts. Hopefully, they'll prevail, because my basement is a firetrap with back issues awaiting the recycle truck when the digital versions are published.

I repeat what I said earlier, which Jeff expands: we're just a handful of online Fugitive "geezer purists." I'm probably the oldest poster here, so I speak for myself as being a 'geezer.'

Future generations won't give a fig who Maestro Rugolo was.

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My Profile reveals my geezerhood. But you and I and others of our general age can revel in the fact we watched most of these shows on TV with all the original Rugolo theme/stingers burning into our memories as broadcast.

I stopped buying Married With Children seasons when they exorcised Frank's "Love & Marriage" from the show opens.

We narrow-minded purist collectors are a strange breed.

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I wonder what doing a boxed set of half a series (two seasons out of four) means? That they're releasing no more so here's the boxed set? How uncommon is it to release a box set when you're only half finished with the run of a series?

By the way, I'm truly bummed that Patrick McGoohan died. He was probably my favorite living actor.

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I suspect it's to move inventory. I don't mean to stir the pot, but I also suspect there will be a Season 3 and a Season 4 DVD release with Heyes scores...and then a box set of those. Hey, I'm a retired meteorologist...who believes weather forecasters??

Yes, Prisoner Number Six. He turned down the role of The Saint (picked up by Roger Moore) and the role of James Bond. He would have been great in both!

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Look Im happy to run the risk of being called a purist I would not have bought Hawaii Five 0 , wild wild west or mission impossible if the signature scores had been striped, the shows simplely wouldn't be the same without the music. Its a no go for me, do it right or not at all, I've great saying a Job done half arsed is usually worse than no job at all, Fugitive S2 v1 is living proof of that saying.

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There's no risk involved...we are purists.

I've just spent the past five hours sampling shows from both Season 1 and Season 2 DVDs and Season 2 VHS tapes. What really cranks my chain are those missing four notes of the Fugitive theme...played in all sorts of moods at high points in the drama and opening each Act & Epilogue.

At the very least, those should have been preserved. I don't care if they were rerecorded and played on a kazoo for Season 2 DVDs...those are as integral a part of each episode as a supporting character.

By the way, it didn't take long for flames to erupt over at the Smiling Box web site's new listing for S2V2.

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I AGREE 1,000%!

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Whether heard in that lonely, plaintive mode or in bold fashion with the opening of an Act, those notes completely embody the character of Richard Kimble, as much as say, the six note phrase used for Simon Templar in "The Saint". Imagine watching Templar in action minus the title theme quote in the body of an episode? I don't think I could stand it.

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Of course not, Michael. It's nothing short of insane to think one can remove the entire underscore of any classic TV show and it NOT adversely affect the viewing of said show. I don't care if we are talking about a drama/action show like ROUTE 66, a western like RAWHIDE, a comedy like THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW, or a pop culture sensation like BATMAN - it's just silly to even consider such an outrageous proposal. To remove the backscore from an iconic TV show like THE FUGITIVE is the height of stupidity. Just no two ways about it. It's like replacing David Janssen's face with someone else's because of a weird legal problem. The show would not be the same. And that holds true for the underscore as well. It's simply not the same show when that beautiful music is removed.

Gary "it still staggers me that someone at CBS/P thought this would be acceptable" O.

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Earle Hagens music in The Andy Griffith Show is just beautiful, as good as the Alexander, Morton, Rugolo, and DeVol music in My Three Sons. If TAGS was just coming up for release on DVD I am sure the new CBS/Paramount would have replaced it's music. We are lucky to have it. These are sick people that just cannot leave things alone. They have to ruin anything that is quality.

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All great examples, Gary. I was even thinking of "Rawhide" when writing the post. Though this series uses alot of stock music cues, just the omission of a couple oft repeated phrases that appear in just about every episode of "Rawhide's" first three seasons (a six note phrase and a completely separate, sometimes repeated 7 note one comes to mind) would be enough to completely alter the "color" or "feel" of the show. You probably know the ones I'm referring to--the 7 note cue is often heard with establishing shots of the cattle drive, the other in night time campsite interludes.

It's so odd how, in the case of "The Fugitive" that stripping a four note title theme quote from the soundtrack can so disrupt the aura of the drama--but in this case, along with other short Rugolo scored cues, (in particular, a five note ascending phrase I'm very fond of) they're tantamount to the empathy we feel for Kimble's plight.

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I know exactly what notes you are referring to on RAWHIDE, Michael. And I agree that extracting them from the show would change everything. Heck, even with a simple thing like a cartoon the musical backscore is important. Think about THE FLINTSTONES for instance. Even there we have music that's ingrained in our memories about the show, and to remove those would be to severely alter the series. It's just nothing short of sheer stupidity to think otherwise.

I've been enjoying the 2nd season of FATHER KNOWS BEST over the holidays and I can't imagine ripping the underscore from that show. All it takes are a couple of notes, played at the right time, and the tears start flowing. That's the power of music! And to take that element away from a classic like THE FUGITIVE just ruins the entire atmosphere.

Gary "still shaking my head, wondering who's bright idea it was to do this in the first place" O.

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Watch out, Oz...I may running a close race for the oldest poster I was born in '55. "The great & powerful Oz has spoken" (I'm guessing that Wizard of Oz is in your top list of favorite movies....mine too)


Tell us how you really feel, Gary Just kidding. Agreed, completely. It showed that the ones making the decisions with the older shows don't identify with the era that the shows were broadcast originally. I'd guess that to the decision-makers at CBS/P, it's just another 60's series to sell.

Mike, as a Rawhide fan, you're right on target with the comparison. When we think of these classics getting their scores changed, it's hard to imagine the effect on the shows.