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THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2 - Page 8

post #211 of 444
4/1/09 at 10:19am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdee28
Just listening to the music that opens each act, I could tell there were music replacements in "Brass Ring," "Fun and Games and Party Favors," "Scapegoat," "The Survivors," "Everybody Gets Hit in the Mouth Sometime," "May God Have Mercy," and "A.P.B." In each case, one or two opening acts have their music replaced. It's not hard to spot, as the modern synthesizers are a dead giveaway. The carnival music in "Brass Ring" is particularly bad.

The Fugitive is one of the greatest shows ever. It's a shame that CBS/Paramount is not giving it the golden treatment afforded to I Love Lucy, Star Trek, The Twilight Zone. Maybe some day they'll be a "Definitive Edition" with all the music restored and original, to make up for the current musical mutilations.

John, from your info it sounds like S2V2 is a step backward from S2V1. Fuge experts, help me out here but wasn't all of the act openings left intact as original scoring in the new S2V1 release?

All this does is make me thankful that I have a good alternate set in the collection.

I dodged a "$" bullet here with S2V2 since I'm getting it free....another one of those birthdays coming up
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post #212 of 444
4/1/09 at 10:38am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyguy
I went back to my Amazon.com and deleted my 4 star review until I find out what shape S2V2 is in musically.
I have no problem sticking it with a 1 star if necessary as most of us would do !
You are wrong, most of "us" would never "stick it" with a 1 star review, CBS has listened to us, they have done the hard work. Most of "us" have gone back and changed our reviews to 5 stars and you better do that unless you want to find yourself an outcast. There is no room for individualist thinking around here. These Fugitive sets should be on the highest pedestal in our collections. CBS has put some Rugolo cues back in and that is what matters. As long as I hear at least one Rugolo cue per episode then I am satisfied. Please stop complaining, I am sick of people who demand excellence and will not comprimise.
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post #213 of 444
4/1/09 at 10:42am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Love that ignore feature.

Dave
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post #214 of 444
4/1/09 at 10:47am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Terrific. My "Ignore" feature didn't work for me simply because I omitted a period in the name. And from now on I'm making sure I login first.
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post #215 of 444
4/1/09 at 10:55am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_ks
...I'm making sure I login first.
AMEN to that!
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post #216 of 444
4/1/09 at 11:07am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I hate April Fool's Day.
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post #217 of 444
4/1/09 at 11:34am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Yes it's April Fools Day and CBS got you with a good one. I hope you guys can get your money back for this latest turd of a release from them.
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post #218 of 444
4/1/09 at 11:37am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

nevermind
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post #219 of 444
4/1/09 at 12:08pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
nevermind
My Post Total would be double if I didn't count-to-10 before reacting to some of the "gems" posted on HTF.
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post #220 of 444
4/1/09 at 12:16pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Anybody else notice that S2V2 didnt show up on tvshowsonDvd yesterday?

Dave
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post #221 of 444
4/1/09 at 12:22pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdee28
Amazon shipping estimates were wrong, as I got mine today!

Picture quality is excellent. There is a lot of Heyes though. Just listening to the music that opens each act, I could tell there were music replacements in "Brass Ring," "Fun and Games and Party Favors," "Scapegoat," "The Survivors," "Everybody Gets Hit in the Mouth Sometime," "May God Have Mercy," and "A.P.B." In each case, one or two opening acts have their music replaced. It's not hard to spot, as the modern synthesizers are a dead giveaway. The carnival music in "Brass Ring" is particularly bad.

The Fugitive is one of the greatest shows ever. It's a shame that CBS/Paramount is not giving it the golden treatment afforded to I Love Lucy, Star Trek, The Twilight Zone. Maybe some day they'll be a "Definitive Edition" with all the music restored and original, to make up for the current musical mutilations.

jdee, please tell me you're kidding, that S2V2 is NOT a step backward, and your comment is a simple April Fool's joke. Please.
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post #222 of 444
4/1/09 at 12:32pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

If they cant go back to the season one template, I will not be purchasing season three. I will just use my alternate copies. Especially after this insertion of music where there was none. CBS/P, please dont try to be creative, just FIX THE FRIKKIN PROBLEM!

Dave
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post #223 of 444
4/1/09 at 12:42pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I still cant believe it.

The only show I ever really wanted to own, the only real simple pleasure that I wanted to have, and it has been all but destroyed.

I still cant believe it.

Dave
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post #224 of 444
4/1/09 at 12:51pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

If there ends up being more Heyes than we would have liked to hear in V2 compared to V1 it might make me wonder if they put more effort into "fixing" V1 whereas they had a greater crunch with regard to making preparations on V2?

I have only watched "Brass Ring" but for me the Heyes insertions didn't start to annoy me until the latter part of the episode and even there only mildly.
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post #225 of 444
4/1/09 at 1:57pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I'll add this. We really should not have expected V2 to be "perfect" given how all of S2 was remastered at the same time so it wouldn't surprise me if initially all of those episodes had 100% Heyes waiting in the wings and maybe given the rush to get a corrected V1 out, it wouldn't surprise me if the restoration job on V2 might end up slightly less thorough compared to what we experienced in V1 where I feel the job was about 80% minimum, perhaps 90% back to original. The *real* acid test I think is going to be S3 which they're only now just starting the remastering to HD of *after* this whole mess with S2.
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post #226 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:01pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Jack,

You previously said that the "Rugolo" you appreciated the most are the "opening act" intro cues. I'm surprised you didn't burst in here earlier with the news that about half of those Rugolo intros are destroyed in S2V2 (if an earlier poster's comments are accurate, that is)....including "Brass Ring", which you've certainly watched.

Or was the above post about many of those elegant and fabulous Rugolo intro cues being ruined perhaps an "April Fool's" gag after all? (I would like to hope it was.)

I find it hard to believe that CBS/P would destroy the Rugolo intro pieces when ALL OF THOSE INTROS are in place on the replacement discs for S2V1.

That's just....ridiculous!

EDIT:

BTW, my S2V2 set is in transit from Amazon as of this writing.

EDIT #2:

Sorry, Jack. I see now (via your above post) that you said you've watched only "Brass Ring" thus far. Therefore, of course, you can't know at the present moment whether all the "Rugolo Intros" are there or not.

But are all 5 Rugolo Intros there for "Brass Ring"? Or are they ruined by Heyes' intros?
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post #227 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:11pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Although "Brass Ring" is one of the few episodes I have an old VHS of to use for comparison, I haven't done so. I heard different act openings for what I think was I, II and III (I can't be 100% sure if it's for two of the three or all three, going by memory at work right now), which I assumed was to replace carnival music since what I heard was the sound of replaced carnival music in those instances. Act IV though was an original Rugolo Fugitive theme opening and the familiar closing music in the Epilogue was the Rugolo theme arrangement that for me is *always* the most critical of Rugolo cues since it's so essential for that underscoring of Conrad's final narration and then final strong chords of the Rugolo theme and into the End Credits.

And I did hear "Two" and "The Passersby" from TZ as underscore in the middle of the episode.
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post #228 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:16pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

OK. Thanks Jack.

I guess maybe Rugolo's "regular" type opening Intros weren't used much in "Brass Ring". I can't remember right now.

It's still annoying as heck, though. It seems incredible that CBS/P would worry about replacing some generic "carnival" type music for fear of being slapped with a lawsuit by Chuckles The Clown or somebody.

I guess we're living in a "Fear That Chuckles Is Gonna Sue Our Pants Off!" age. Ughhh!

Yes, I know, Chuckles was trampled by a rogue elephant on October 25, 1975, in Minneapolis. But, you get the point.
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post #229 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:29pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I don't remember what the original carnival music was, but often music for carousels etc. would be a lot of old standards that would certainly require music clearance. In one instance, the Heyes carnival music was actually a familar tune that I always hear at circuses (or is associated with them) and I wish I could remember the name of it (if I hummed it you'd know the one I mean) which indicated to me that Heyes in doing these new ones was free to use public domain stuff in addition to doing original stuff.
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post #230 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:31pm
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

There are a number of Act starts in Season Two that originally didn't use the familiar "Fuge-theme"-type cues. I have no idea if they are Rugolo-composed and not on the soundtrack, or cues from elsewhere.

Harry
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post #231 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:45pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I agree with David. When we get to the point where we are hearing replacements for old carnival music we've passed into the Twilight Zone where Chuckles never died, but is instead chasing Mary Tyler Moore around with a seltzer bottle.

Gary "my copy came today, but my week and weekend is pretty busy and I can't guarantee I'll be able to do any serious side-by-side comparisons till next Monday at the earliest" O.
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post #232 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:46pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Where's Carabimero?
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post #233 of 444
4/1/09 at 2:48pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
There are a number of Act starts in Season Two that originally didn't use the familiar "Fuge-theme"-type cues. I have no idea if they are Rugolo-composed and not on the soundtrack, or cues from elsewhere.

Harry

The opening act of Brass Ring (when it says Act I) has only carnival music. There is no fug music.

Dave
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post #234 of 444
4/1/09 at 3:12pm
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by buford2
The opening act of Brass Ring (when it says Act I) has only carnival music. There is no fug music.

Dave

Season Two started the trend to breaking with the Season One tradition of always starting an act with "Fuge-theme" cues. Right at the start in "Man in A Chariot", we hear different music from what had normally occured.

Yes, there were still plenty of "Fuge-theme" cues used, but they were not as heavily relied on in Season Two as they seemed to be in Season One.

All I'm saying is "Be careful" about identifying what you're hearing, when it's a bit different, - it might be Heyes - it might not.

Yeah, if it's obviously synthesized, it's Heyes (or his compatriots of Komie and Winans).

I get the references here to the carnival music, and for my money, they can replace that stuff all day long and it won't bother me, unless it's so loud that it obscures dialog.

Just give me as much original music as feasible, and I'll be OK with it. If anyone has come up with instances of "Rugolo" music being replaced, then we've got a problem, IMHO.

According to Amazon, my set arrived in my city this morning at 11:01. Given that, it'll possibly get to me tomorrow.

Harry
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post #235 of 444
4/1/09 at 4:21pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

TIME OUT! Please.

S2V2 is virtually the same as the replacement S2V1.

The Rugolo Act opens are there, if they were in the original airing.

"Brass Ring" opens with carnival music (be it Heyes or otherwise) in all but either Act IV or the Epilog...which as Harry said is normal. As the seasons progressed, there were plot teasers added at the beginning of the shows, and not all shows had Acts opening with the familiar theme.

Regarding the Party episode (Harry, did we really dance like that in 1965? Please tell me we didn't!), that 'garage scene' has new Heyes music, but it luckily even slightly rips off the first two notes of the Rugolo Fugitive theme...and, IMHO is certainly not a deal-breaker. It's OK, even though there's only faint party music in the background in the original TV airing.

I'll be glad when everyone gets their copy of S2V2 and all the crying "Wolf!" stops. A lot of folks here, without their DVDs yet, are getting upset unnecessarily.

The world is full of crepe-hangers who love to alarm everyone with bad news. Let's try to avoid that here at HTF.

Just saying.

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post #236 of 444
4/1/09 at 4:30pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
A lot of folks here, without their DVDs yet, are getting upset unnecessarily.

Mainly due to this post:

Quote:
Just listening to the music that opens each act, I could tell there were music replacements in "Brass Ring," "Fun and Games and Party Favors," "Scapegoat," "The Survivors," "Everybody Gets Hit in the Mouth Sometime," "May God Have Mercy," and "A.P.B." In each case, one or two opening acts have their music replaced. It's not hard to spot, as the modern synthesizers are a dead giveaway.
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post #237 of 444
4/1/09 at 4:59pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatOz
S2V2 is virtually the same as the replacement S2V1.
I don't know what others expected but I just assumed that it would be that way. Some episodes might have a more changes than others but I think that, in the end, the amount of music replaced in the corrected S2V1 and S2V2 will be pretty comparable.
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post #238 of 444
4/1/09 at 5:20pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Ok here's an idea:

Why not replace the Capitol cues or any cue where the rights holder are "in question" with................*drumroll*..

*More* Rugulo or TLZ Music!

I'm serious. What do fuge fans think of this idea?

This solves allot of problems. Paramount saves money because there's no new music to compose and us fans will get more of the familiar music that we know and love. Surely Peter Rugolo's catalog of music is diverse and plentiful enough to be re-used and played over a multitude of different scenarios and settings of any particular episode. This way, theres No Heyes. No Synthesizer.

Ofcourse this is not perfect solution but I think that would be better to what we have been treated to with season 2.

What do you guys think?
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post #239 of 444
4/1/09 at 5:21pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

The replacement discs for The Fugitive Season 2, Volume 1 had changes for the opening act music in only two episodes, "The Iron Maiden," Act III and "Ballad for a Ghost," Act II.

In The Fugitive, Season 2, Volume 2, the following opening act music has been changed or is suspect:
"Brass Ring," Acts I and III. The music being replaced is the music from the carnival.
"Fun and Games and Party Favors," Acts II, III, IV. The music being replaced is party music from the era.
"Scapegoat," Act II. It sounds synthesized, like a Heyes score.
"The Survivors," Act IV. Those synthesizers again!
"Everybody Gets Hit in the Mouth Some Time," Act III. At first, it sounded off, but upon hearing it again a few times, it could be original. It leads into a scene though at a dive bar where the background jukebox music is replaced.
"May God Have Mercy," Act III. Those synthesizers again! Act II sounds a little off as well, but it might be original.
"A.P.B.," Act II. It sounds a little off to me, but it might be original.

The replacement music would flow much better within these episodes if it was recorded with something truer to the era, like an orchestra, and not those god-awful synthesizers!
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post #240 of 444
4/1/09 at 5:33pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

SECOND TIME OUT... (whistle blows)

One each of the four S2V2 discs, I hit Play All, and chapter skipped to -every- Act and Epilog. (it's surprising, when you play them in a row, how many times the same exactly orchestrated Rugolo Fugitive theme is repeated)

Next, I used my asbestos gloves and put the "Alternate Four-Season Fugitive Set" of the 2nd Season discs in the player.

All the Rugolo Act-opening themes are indeed in S2V2 that were originally aired. Where Acts open with other 'scene setting' music like at the carnival, in night clubs, at parties, etc., those are somewhat different in S2V2 from the original TV versions. I presume they're Heyes recreations.

Again, IMHO, this is by no means a deal-breaker.

I don't wish to preach, but after all, we could be living today with S2V1 as the final CBS/P Fugitive set released...with NO Rugolo music.

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