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THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2 - Page 6

post #151 of 444
3/30/09 at 2:42am
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdG
I watched Fun Games and Party Favors last night and it sounded like there was a Heyes cue at around 28:00 minutes when David Janssen is talking to Mark Goddard in the garage. Like Gary O. said earlier it sounded like Heyes. Today I found the same episode on youtube that someone recorded from a tv broadcast and that music was not in the scene on the youtube version. It lasts about 1m 20 secs. Also the background music played during the party and the background music during the pizza parlor scene (with Anthony Call) were different than the episode posted on youtube much like when they changed the music that Kimble listened to on the radio in one of the S1 sets. So even though Rugolo is now the only composer listed in the credits Mark Heyes et al is still present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buford2
Well that kinda sucks if they are adding Heyes music where there was no music previously. I thought the whole point was to avoid music rights issues. If there was no music originally, why cant they just leave it that way?

I will probably buy the whole series, but this is irritating.

Dave

Dave, I think you misread EdG's post. He wasn't saying that a Heyes cue was added where NO music was originally. He was merely reporting a substitution.

Did anyone really think that S2V2 would be somehow radically different from the re-done S2V1? Does not the same situation apply as it did in the first half? Did anyone think that the owners of the Capitol Music cues suddenly made themselves known and gave their approval?

I expect exactly the same as the fairly well-done S2V1 replacement discs - mostly Rugolo, some TZ thrown in, and a scattering of Heyes to cover the Capitol music cues - all with the ever-present replacement of radio, jukebox and background incidental music.

Harry
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post #152 of 444
3/30/09 at 4:33am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Did anyone really think that S2V2 would be somehow radically different from the re-done S2V1?

Well, it's kind of hard to tell. Paramount never gives out any detailed info regarding any of this music mess....so who can know with certainty? Answer--nobody can.


Quote:
Does not the same situation apply as it did in the first half?

Again -- Who knows? Who can know for sure?


Quote:
Did anyone think that the owners of the Capitol Music cues suddenly made themselves known and gave their approval?

Again -- Who knows?

An alternate answer that could also easily apply to your last inquiry is: Why not?

Are the people who represent Capitol Music supposedly on the moon or something? They could be contacted by someone at CBS/P at any time during this music debacle, I reckon.

Plus: We're still left with the head-scratcher of --- What on Earth is so drastically different between both halves of Season 1 (which are in perfect "Rugolo & CBS Music Is All There" form on DVD) and Season 2?

There are certainly "Capitol" cues throughout Season 1. And Season 1 is still being sold--in totally-unmutilated (i.e., "no Heyes") form.

Curious stuff indeed.

And all we can do is speculate, since we have gotten no "official" info from CBS/P on any of this stuff.

~big ol' shrug~

BTW, below is a link to the DVD Beaver review for S2V2. The Beaver reviewer said: "The big issue to the die-hard fans is Rugolo's score and in this DVD set it seems intact for all my ears can discern."

The reviewer didn't mention hearing any replacement (Heyes) music at all. But, then again, he only mentions the "Rugolo score", and he wasn't specific about any non-"Rugolo" cues. ~another shrug~

The Fugitive Season Two Volume 2 TV Series David Janssen
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post #153 of 444
3/30/09 at 5:46am
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

David, you raise good points. And in the end, all we're left with is more of the same unanswered questions and a lot of speculation.

The only thing we have to go on is what we've actually experienced. I cannot recall a single instance in any of these long threads of anyone coming up with a definitive identity of a Capitol Music cue (the apparent devil in all of this).

There don't seem to be any "experts" in Capitol Music cues, the way we have TWILIGHT ZONE and OUTER LIMITS aficionados, and those who know the GUNSMOKE, etc. cues as they've appeared in THE FUGITIVE. At least there are none HERE, at the HTF who've made their presence known.

All we know for sure is from the statement issued by CBS/P at the height of the S2V1 debacle, that "some" music caused the problem. The VARIETY article dug a little deeper, giving us the "Capitol Music Library" as the source of the problem.

Quote:
...Sources suggested that the occasional use of music from the now-defunct Capitol Music Library was problematic and that confusion existed about which music was Capitol's and which belonged to CBS.

It would appear from the re-issued S2V1 discs, that most of the "confusion" of which music was the problem has been mostly solved, and from personal testimony here from people who've done side-by-side comparisons, we can tell that much of the original music is back where it belongs.

There were still some questionable replacements, suggesting either a bit of carelessness, or some lingering questions, remained.

My point in all of this - and I do have one - is that here in March of 2009, we know the result of whatever CBS/P did to fix S2V1 to the level that they did. Therefore, I think it's reasonable to expect the same from S2V2.

Knowing how difficult it was to re-do video for end credits, and given that the totality of music scores no longer belongs to Mr. Heyes, the end credit screens do not surprise me, being left in the altered state. It would have been a difficult task to "fix" S2V1 back to their origins, and it would have been just as difficult - and meaningless - to apply the same change to the S2V2 credits, given Mr. Heyes limited involvement.

The whole changing-of-the-end-credits was a bit of an eyebrow-raiser in the first place. I don't think we've seen anything like that done for any other series (and hope we never do again!). Even when movies have additional restoration-type credits for an update, they usually tack them on to the end.

But hopefully in a few days we can turn this thread around from speculation and into celebration as THE FUGITIVE SEASON TWO VOLUME TWO plays on our home screens.

Harry
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post #154 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:02am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Here is a link of the scene from youtube.

YouTube - The Fugitive MARK GODDARD Fun and Games (Part 3 of 6)

At 9:18 a car in the link above a car is pulling into the garage. This is where the Heyes cue starts there and lasts about 1min 20sec. on the DVD. So if this version on youtube is the original version then Heyes has been inserted and it is not a substitution. The background music played during the party that the kids were dancing to and the music played in the pizza parlor in this
episode are music substitutions.
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post #155 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:14am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdG
Here is a link of the scene from youtube.

YouTube - The Fugitive MARK GODDARD Fun and Games (Part 3 of 6)

At 9:18 a car in the link above a car is pulling into the garage. This is where the Heyes cue starts there and lasts about 1min 20sec. on the DVD. So if this version on youtube is the original version then Heyes has been inserted and it is not a substitution. The background music played during the party that the kids were dancing to and the music played in the pizza parlor in this
episode are music substitutions.

Ed, there's still party music playing in the background of the original. You can hear it in the Youtube clip you linked. It's faint, but it's there. So I imagine they just continued to insert Heyes party music in its place. But it's not a brand new insertion. It's still just a substitution.

Gary "you have to listen closely to hear the background party music, but trust me - it's there" O.
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post #156 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:17am
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Thanks for clearing that up Gary, as it turns out that it was "I" who misread Ed's original post!

Harry
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post #157 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:23am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry-N
Thanks for clearing that up Gary, as it turns out that it was "I" who misread Ed's original post!

Harry

Well, I could have misread Ed's point too. In thinking about it more maybe Ed is saying that instead of the same type of Heyes substitution "party music" that was used in the house and at the Pizza parlor instead we have a more traditional Heyes substitution "Rugolo" type music inserted. If that is the case, then I can understand the confusion. But there was background music being played in the garage scene even in the original. It was just background party music that was very faint since they were no longer in the house.

Ed, can you clear up a little more what you mean about the garage scene? Thanks.

Gary "I guess we should all be able to judge this one for ourselves in one more day" O.
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post #158 of 444
3/30/09 at 7:47am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary OS
Ed, there's still party music playing in the background of the original. You can hear it in the Youtube clip you linked. It's faint, but it's there. So I imagine they just continued to insert Heyes party music in its place. But it's not a brand new insertion. It's still just a substitution.

Gary "you have to listen closely to hear the background party music, but trust me - it's there" O.

If that is the case then I have no problem with it. It is very faint in the youtube clip and lasts for about that long. Wouldnt it be nice if this volume was like season one.

Any other episodes anybody has looked at?

Dave
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post #159 of 444
3/30/09 at 7:49am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

When the car is entering the garage the Heyes music plays. It's like a Heyes version of the Fugitive theme probably used on the first volume before they
changed the cues back to Rugolo on the replacements. I thought it was different because the cue tries to build up suspense when Mark Goddard's character gets out of the car to talk to Kimble. Gary O. you can hear faint background party music after the Heyes cue ends on the DVDs. Sorry it's been so hard explaining this but when you get the set tomorrow I know you will see what I am talking about during that scene.

I watched The End Is But the Beginning last night and I did not hear anything there that took me out of the show. Please understand there may have been changes made but nothing for me that kept me from enjoying it. I am not very familiar with the capitol cues mentioned earlier. I had only seen a handful of episodes from the library on VHS before these sets came out so most of the episodes I am watching for the first time. I am really enjoying the show and can't wait for the rest to come out.
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post #160 of 444
3/30/09 at 1:07pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

This is getting way too picky for me. As long as it fits in with the rest of the Rugolo/CBS cues, I don't care if any Heyes is tracked in. It's not like all those Capitol cues were timeless masterpieces. They weren't, and neither were some of the CBS cues.

I only care if S2V2 looks and sounds like the series I remember from its original run and the various VHS releases. Arguing about Heyes being at this spot or that, and going over side-by-side listenings just to determine it, is as useful as those medieval scholars debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Is S2V2 the "Fugitive" I remember? That's all I care about, and how much Heyes is or isn't there matters not at all.
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post #161 of 444
3/30/09 at 1:15pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Thompson
This is getting way too picky for me...how much Heyes is or isn't there matters not at all.
Hush thy mouth blasphemer, else thou be smote by the Almighty Curators of Cues!

I agree
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post #162 of 444
3/30/09 at 2:06pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Myself, I rather marvel at the minute attention to detail "Fugitive" fans possess so I enjoy every morsel of detail about music cues that's being tossed out there. Fan obsessiveness with a TV show and seeing to it that its integrity stays intact is directly proportional to its quality and timelessness. I'm more than OK with that.
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post #163 of 444
3/30/09 at 2:09pm
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Just having gotten a shipping confirmation from Amazon on both THE FUGITIVE and VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, I'd hoped for perhaps a bit earlier, but this will do. With luck these'll show up in the next day or so.

It's a good week for this classic TV fan!

Harry
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post #164 of 444
3/30/09 at 2:10pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_ks
Myself, I rather marvel at the minute attention to detail "Fugitive" fans possess so I enjoy every morsel of detail about music cues that's being tossed out there. Fan obsessiveness with a TV show and seeing to it that its integrity stays intact is directly proportional to its quality and timelessness. I'm more than OK with that.

I completely agree, Michael. I'm just hoping that the Heyes in this second set is less intrusive still, and that Season 3 will see a return to the Season 1 template.

Gary "still not convinced that the people in charge of these music edits really know what they are doing" O.
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post #165 of 444
3/30/09 at 2:37pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

To my annoyance while Amazon shipped "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea" early to me so that it arrived today, they have still not shipped "The Fugitive" yet which means there's no way I'm going to have it arriving tomorrow even with two-day shipping which I had thought would guarantee its arrival on release day.
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post #166 of 444
3/30/09 at 3:21pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

If I were very, very, very anxious to screen on street date, I might buy S2V2 tomorrow morning at Best Buy, and then return the unopened one from Amazon to BB in a couple of days when it finally arrives.

Yes, the price stickers peel off carefully.

Just saying.
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post #167 of 444
3/30/09 at 3:26pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

LOL, I'm not ready to go that route. If I must I'll just blitz through Voyage tomorrow (and finish the remaining four episodes of "Barney Miller" S3).
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post #168 of 444
3/30/09 at 3:32pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P
...even with two-day shipping which I had thought would guarantee its arrival on release day.
On a more serious note than mine above, Amazon shipping/arrival times vary with the item's dispatch location and the buyer's location. These are highly variable. Occasionally, I've received the email shipping notice and the item on the same day when the dispatch is from Philadelphia (where I am located). Other items take all sorts of round-about routes, according to the Amazon tracking page, and several days.

The Fugitive shipped from Kentucky last time.

I've never tried 2-day shipping.

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post #169 of 444
3/30/09 at 3:37pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

LOL! Jack P, if you're like a lots of us here, there are DVDs in our libraries, some still shrink-wrapped on shelves, and Series half-viewed that could tie us over between Amazon packages for many, many weeks.

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post #170 of 444
3/30/09 at 3:42pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

There's nothing with the shrink wrap still on, but I'd be ashamed to admit just how much accumulation over the last few years has gone unwatched or only partly watched.
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post #171 of 444
3/30/09 at 4:07pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

At my age (64), I feel like Burgess Meredith on the steps of the library after the bomb.

I can't afford to retire in this economy...and when I do, chances are we'll all be living like the Flintstones, getting aid from Haiti, here in the US.

Hijack apology... "And now, back to THE FUGITIVE....
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post #172 of 444
3/30/09 at 4:28pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I have never seen an episode of Voyage To The Bottom of The Sea !
When did it run and is it a good show, as I am looking for some new shows to try !
Just got Season 3 of Perry Mason, Season 1 of Hawaii Five-0 and the entire Twilight Zone going right now, but it won't last forever !
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post #173 of 444
3/30/09 at 5:54pm
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyguy
I have never seen an episode of Voyage To The Bottom of The Sea !
When did it run and is it a good show, as I am looking for some new shows to try !
Just got Season 3 of Perry Mason, Season 1 of Hawaii Five-0 and the entire Twilight Zone going right now, but it won't last forever !

Again, if you're in the US with a broadband conncetion, you can check out episodes for the first two seasons of VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA at hulu.com:

Hulu - Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea

VOYAGE was another Irwin Allen series, predating TIME TUNNEL by a couple of years, with its first season in black & white. In that first season, the stories tended to be of a more serious nature, dealing with Cold War issues, with more tense, gripping dramas than in the later years.

In season two, VOYAGE went to color, the stories got a little more science-fiction oriented, but there was still a taste of the Cold War stories going on.

By the third season, the show pretty much became a monster-of-the-week show, as it seemed to ABC that everytime in the first two years that they did a monster story, the ratings increased. So the third season is a bit on the juvenile side.

That trend continued into the fourth and final season which is just coming out now on DVD. Some say that the stories got a little better in year four, with once again a mixture of a few serious episodes in with the silly monster yarns.

If you want to see a gritty, no-nonsense drama on VOYAGE, there's none better than the first season's "Submarine Sunk Here". Check it out on Hulu.

Harry
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post #174 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:03pm
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatOz
Other items take all sorts of round-about routes, according to the Amazon tracking page, and several days.

The Fugitive shipped from Kentucky last time.

According to the tracking page for me, Richard Kimble has boarded the SSRN Seaview and they are in Campbellsville, Kentucky.

If only they were coming here via the Flying Sub...

Harry
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post #175 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:21pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I still get nothing but the "preparing to ship" message with no tracking number, nothing. I have never seen this happen with any Amazon title I pre-ordered a month plus before the release date where it wasn't already shipped Sunday night before the release date (and always arrived on the release date)
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post #176 of 444
3/30/09 at 6:34pm

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P
I have never seen this happen with any Amazon title I pre-ordered a month plus before the release date where it wasn't already shipped Sunday night before the release date (and always arrived on the release date)
I'd venture a guess that the demand for Fugi has been kicked up a notch.
Or maybe, Amazon has cut back on its staff a little, which has slowed shipments down a wee bit.

I know how you feel. The stuff I'm not all that anxious to get quickly comes practically overnight. The titles I'm anticipating receiving move like snails.

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post #177 of 444
3/31/09 at 2:14am
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

As of 4:11 this morning, Dr. Kimble, aboard the Seaview were sighted in Cincinnati, OH. It looks unlikely that I'll receive them today, release day.

Oh well. Another day or so won't kill me I suppose, but it will be hard.

Harry
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post #178 of 444
3/31/09 at 3:58am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

I too ordered it on Amazon hoping to get it today, release day, but after checking, apparently I'll be lucky to get it by the middle of next week.
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post #179 of 444
3/31/09 at 6:27am

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdG
When the car is entering the garage the Heyes music plays. It's like a Heyes version of the Fugitive theme probably used on the first volume before they
changed the cues back to Rugolo on the replacements. I thought it was different because the cue tries to build up suspense when Mark Goddard's character gets out of the car to talk to Kimble. Gary O. you can hear faint background party music after the Heyes cue ends on the DVDs. Sorry it's been so hard explaining this but when you get the set tomorrow I know you will see what I am talking about during that scene.

I watched The End Is But the Beginning last night and I did not hear anything there that took me out of the show. Please understand there may have been changes made but nothing for me that kept me from enjoying it. I am not very familiar with the capitol cues mentioned earlier. I had only seen a handful of episodes from the library on VHS before these sets came out so most of the episodes I am watching for the first time. I am really enjoying the show and can't wait for the rest to come out.

I have watched the first DVD in the Season 2 Volume 2 set. If the remainder of the DVD's resemble this one, the set resembles the replacement DVD's that were issued. The Rugolo music is intact but you still have Heyes messed in here and there. All in all, if the remainder of the DVD's in this set is done the same, I will be able to live with it and be happy with them. But in the episode "Fun, Games, and Party Favors" , EdG is correct. When Mark Goddard pulls into the garage, you don't hear the party music, you hear a Heyes theme and as soon as it stops, the party music bleads into the rest of the scene. It is very out of place! First you don't hear any party music and all of a sudden about a minunet and a half into the scene, it starts up. Very out of place when you compare it to the Youtube offering.
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post #180 of 444
3/31/09 at 8:13am
Thread Starter 

Re: THE FUGITIVE - Season 2 Volume 2



Does anyone else find the cover picture to Season Two Volume Two a bit odd looking? I'm not referring to the fact that it's a color photo with his prisoner number below, we all know that it's a fabrication.

I'm just talking about the picture of David Janssen himself. It looks odd to me, like there's something off about his cheeks or mouth or something. Perhaps it'll look better on the actual package than in this scan that appears everywhere (?)

Harry
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