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Make my HT better please! - Page 2

post #31 of 37
2/27/09 at 11:24pm
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Re: Make my HT better please!

Okay all,
I know I've been off of here for a while but the military is a demanding adventure at times if you know what I mean. Just figured something out tonight though when I purchased my Logitech Harmony One today. Through shear dumb luck I have discovered a problem with my system. Apparently ATT U-Verse does not output 5.1 sound via the HDMI out. This only happens when you connect the optical audio wire. Sounds absolutely stupid to me!!!!! It's getting late so I will get into deeper tomorrow I guess but for tonight I went backwards in the wire technology realm and ditched the HDMI for Component video and optical audio. Crazy world!
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post #32 of 37
2/28/09 at 11:55pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Make my HT better please!

Wow, I feel dumb! Anyway I have the U-Verse setup "correctly" now. I have trained the the receiver to use the TV/SAT button to accept the HDMI for the video and the optical from the U-Verse for the audio. It sounds so much freaking better. I'm no longer relying on my receiver to make 7.1 sound out of 2 channel. Now it broadcasts 5.1 that the receiver makes 7.1 at a much better result. I suppose it only does this on HD channels but that doesn't matter being I only watch HD. It's a 73". In SD, god don't get started on that.

Next, I found out that the 5200ES doesn't upconvert when it's feed via HDMI. Only S Video, composite, and component upconvert. I never found this in the owners manual. I found it in a review from ultimateavmag.com. Providing they are right.

I've upgraded a little as well. I just scored a Harmony One remote from CC for 125 bucks. Pretty nice remote. Seems to be working as described so far. Also I replaced my Sony 5 disc DVD player (that I forgot to mention in the original post) with a Sony BD player. The S350. I got that beast for 99 bucks at a Navy Exchange on the clearance shelf. Missing the remote but SCORE!!!

So for the next question, I'm happy as a pig in slop that I was able to name the input on my receiver since I'm not using the HDMI input for U-Verse anymore. You cannot change the name of the HDMI inputs for whatever reason on the receiver only the TV/SAT, MD/DAT, etc inputs. So the question is what do you lose by using the optical input for the PS3 and BD player versus only the HDMI cable via the HDMI inputs? Is the optical out on the PS3 and BD player the same sound output as the HDMI?

Brent S,
You mentioned a THX optimizer. What is that and where can I find that? I bought an "optimizer" for the picture side of the house. It was nothing more than a contrast, tint, brightness, etc tuner for the TV via a DVD. I'm still to get the SPL meter as I haven't had alot of time. Glad I actually get the explanation of the wattage increase in comparison the dBs now!!! Thanks!!!! As far as the LFE config, the wire comes out of the receiver into the Dynamo. The Dynamo has an LFE out. From the Dynamo LFE out I have a splitter. From the splitter I'm feeding each 2004TL via the audio interconnects. As far as crossovers go, the 5200ES I believe is set at 30 Hz? I honestly forget. But, the Dynamo when fed via the LFE input its crossover will not be used. So the receiver would control the Dynamo and the the Dynamo's controls would do nothing. The Dynamo's controls only work when fed through the L/R channels when operating in 2 channel stereo mode (basically). So the Dynamo has no control on the output line of the LFE as well. As a result, to the best of my knowledge, the built in crossover of the 2004TL's control the low freqs once the signal hits them. There is a huge difference when I use the LFE's on the speakers as opposed to only using the line level inputs. The line level with the LFE sounds so much better!

Lance J,
I don't know the bitrate of my connection with U-verse either. I hear that bitrate is everything. I will try the the U-Verse forums to see if I can figure it out.
Even when I set the speakers to small I can still go in and adjust the crossover cut off in 10 Hz intervals so I don't think the 80 to 50 thing is a problem. I actually have the fronts set at large with the the crossover set at it's lowest point already.
My 5200ES only has a subwoofer output and no "LFE" output. But I really am overly happy with bass output so I don't think that this is an issue. I wasn't aware there was a seperate LFE and sub on some receivers so thanks for that info!

In conclusion, I don't know if everything is still the best possible way to do it and I still have the couple questions mentioned above. Thanks for all help and hope to continue to get the pro's help here.

For all U-Verse customers there is a forum called U-Talk which for U-Verse problems and/or solutions. I wish someone would told me about it.
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post #33 of 37
3/1/09 at 7:47am

Re: Make my HT better please!

The THX Optimizer routines are found on every THX certified DVD, such as "The Incredibles". I haven't checked for it, but Indiana Jones 4 is a THX certified Blu-ray so the optimizer patterns shoudl be there as well.

SP/DIF optical/coax cannot carry the latest lossless audio from Blu-ray. You need to use HDMI to have enough bandwidth. The question then becomes "can you hear a difference between lossless and lossy?". While you'll find much religious fervor in the same vein as DD vs. DTS if you search the forums, these self proclaimd "golden ears" did a true blind test between various lossless and lossy codecs and found the results to be small to nonexistent depending on the lossy bitrate used. There are a few true discrete 7.1 Blu-ray discs out there. Using optical/coax would limit you to 5.1 which the Sony would then matrix back to 7.1 while HDMI would carry the 7.1 mix as encoded on the disc.

You should double check your U-Verse box settings. I find it hard to believe that it won't output a DD 5.1 bitstream via HDMI if it will carry 2 channel audio. Usually audio via HDMI is on or off. You're not connecting the box -> TV -> receiver are you? That route would probably kill the DD signal and downres it to 2 channel since the TV can't output 5.1.

Tongue in cheek: why would you want the Sony to "upconvert" HDMI? What's format would you convert it to? Upconverting/transcoding is the process of going from composite->s-vid->component->HDMI. Upscaling is changing the resolution from 720x480 -> 1280x720 -> 1920x1080, etc. Even if the Sony would upscale, unless it's using an ABT or Reon video processor, you're likely better off letting the display do the scaling to its native resolution.

-Brent
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post #34 of 37
3/1/09 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Make my HT better please!

Easy day on the THX optimizer thing. I wasn't even aware of that on DVD or BD honestly. Thanks.

I also get the optical audio thing as well. That's what I thought would happen. I know most disc don't come with 7.1 sound and don't know if I could tell the difference. I may walk down that road to give that a try.

The U-Verse box has basically no options for anything with the exception of output resolution. Here's a U-Talk link that describes unhappy people talking about it.

HDMI 5.1 surround sound. - Equipment - U-talk Peer-to-Peer Forums

I'm basically taking that as gospel on the subject. As stupid as it seems.

The 5200ES manual describes it as converting the resolution. So I went with upconvert versus upscale. If that makes sense. It's on page 88 and 89 of the owners manual. What I was trying to get at regardless of calling it the wrong thing is that the receiver has a Faroudja chip in it. If I'm feeding the receiver a 480p pic via HDMI it will not use the Faroudja chip to attempt to make it a 1080P pic. I realize that the chip is not some super miracle worker but has to do a little to improve the pic.

The reciever has 3 HDMI in and 1 out. So I use the 3 ins for the U-Verse box, the PS3, and the BD player. And of course the 1 out goes to the TV. That's the way I have it set up. I still think a may go to monoprice and pick up a few more optical cables to try and use the HDMI for video and optical for the audio and give that a try.
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post #35 of 37
3/1/09 at 5:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Make my HT better please!

Oh and the alledged bit rate in 25.8 MBPS per house. But also alledgedly it only uses a max of 8 per HD channel. I'm not smart enough to tell you anything else. LOL!
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post #36 of 37
3/2/09 at 5:00pm

Re: Make my HT better please!

According to that thread, you are correct. Some quick Googling found other sites also discussing the lack of 5.1 via HDMI. Couldn't tell for sure if it applied to both Moto and Cisco boxes, though...most threads only mentioned the Moto U-verse box.

Since we (in the HT world sense) are making up words, there's no right definition of upconversion. I like using upconversion to apply to composite->s-vid->component->HDMI transcoding since it's a process of converting from one physical transport to another. This is also how Onkyo uses it.

That leaves upscaling for what you're referring to. You can change resolution (scale) without changing physical carrier.

Regardless of terminology, you missed my point. Your display likely has a better scaler in it than the 5200, even if it would scale HDMI signals. All fixed pixel displays *must* scale the input signal to their native resolution to display it; they can't change their resolution to match the signal like a CRT display could. So, your display is scaling that 480p signal to 1080p.

-Brent
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post #37 of 37
3/7/09 at 4:50pm

Re: Make my HT better please!

Hi ,
I like the open and wide soundstage of a planars speakers,
Can you try Marttin Logans, Magnepans?
Rubén
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