side bars

Re: side bars

Many programs aren't widescreen. When you see those bars, the program isn't in widescreen. Rather than distort the picture, or cut off information, those bars are shown.

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A great majority of TV shows are made for 4x3 sceens (square), you have a 16x9 screen (rectangle), hence, a square in a rectangle...black/grey bars on the sides.

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... unless you want to crop or stretch it, like how I see 4x3 content on all of the 16x9 displays at stores. Just horrible, but the same people who wanted pan/scan transfers so "the picture fills the screen" also want 4x3 films to fill the screen on their 16x9 televisions.

I have a 42" HDTV and don't mind the bars on the sides for 4x3 films, just like I didn't mind the letterboxing of widescreen films on my prior 25" 4x3 SDTV. It's all about showing the original aspect ratio of a film, or using the format buttons to modify it to fit what you want.

Dish Network's HD receiver has a format button to allow all of the different viewing modes (gray bar, normal, stretch, partial zoom and zoom) on any SD or HD channel. I'm sure DirecTV's HD receiver has something similar if you look.

Re: side bars

Greg,

Conrats on your recent purchases. I bought that 50" Panasonic Plasma myself this past August.

Jon, John, and Chuck answered your questions very well. I also have the DirecTV HD service and they have some adjustment options for viewing formats although I don't recall seeing any "zoom" options available as with Dish Network's receivers. I have my DTV HD Box set to "Native" format wich means that the Receiver will automatically set the format to the channel's originating format, either 4:3 or 16:9 . The DTV box apparently sends out a sig to my Plasma TV to adjust the TV format accordingly. It's been working good for me. One thing that is a slight inconvience to me, anyway, is that if you've been watching a 4:3 format show on your TV, the screen will remain at that format until you tune to a 16:9 show. In other words, the on-screen displays, channel guides, etc, will remain in 4:3 mode until you select a 16:9 channel.

The DTV Receiver will also let you select the "piller box" (side bars) color schemes if I recall. I think the choices are grey or black. The options are available from the "setup" menu under the "HD" sub-menu if I recall correctly.

Regarding the sidebars & vertical bars, I'm one of the "orig aspect ratio" guys. I don't use the "zoom" modes to fill up the screen for a 4:3 or LB picture. It's a matter of personal preference.

Re: side bars

I'm sort of afraid that we are going to see a sort of return to the "I hate black bars" complaints of years past. I've read many complaints recently (even on HTF!!) with people saying how much they hate the bars on the side of the picture. Many of these are from people who would look down on those who complain about letterboxing.

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Many predicted this is exactly what would happen when widescreen TVs became the norm. All those people who had 4.3 sets and wanted their screens filled now want their widescreen set screens filled - the other way.

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I've been wondering what will happen to the "This film has been modified to fit this screen" disclaimer when widescreen TVs become the norm. I just hope they don't crop and stretch.

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Considering the studios released all but a handful of titles in their correct AR during the era of 4x3 TVs, I don't see any need to panic about the studio suddenly deciding to only release cropped material for 16x 9 TVs.

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I don't think the studios will do anything incorrectly - I think the owners of the sets will do everything all by themselves.

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That's exactly what I figured was going to happen. But while I personally don't stretch the image, at least those people who for whatever their reasons can't tolerate the side bars, now have the technology to "stretch" their 4:3 picture to fill the screen. Hey, if it means they'll be quiet and the DVD companies don't start caving into them by making all 4:3 TV shows and film releases "artifically wide" , let them do what they want.

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B

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What? OAR is not a floating standard. It stands for Original Aspect Ratio. In other words, the aspect ratio the director intended, the cinematographer set up for, etc. You can put your 16x9 on zoom for 4x3 material if you want, but you can't say, "That's my OAR. You can have your OAR on your TV."

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First off, Merry Christmas. That said, this is one of most ignorant posts I've ever read. Please explain how 4.3 fills the screen of a widescreen TV. It doesn't. And it's "losing" not "loosing." Oh, maybe I'm misunderstanding - maybe you meant this post as a joke. That would explain everything.

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My "ignorant" post was clearly aimed at "Ernest", not you - his is the post I quoted in my response. "Ernest's" post is ignorant - filled with information that is not correct. I'm sure he's a nice person and all, but really, either his post was meant amusingly or he doesn't know what he is talking about.

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Except for a very, very few titles, widescreen OAR DVD's have outsold their fullscreen counterparts, even in the early days of DVD, when all TV's were 4:3. Please do not state things about the "majority" that you have no clue about.


My 4:3 Blu-ray titles are displayed on my 65" widescreen with pillar box bars on the side. Care to take back the above statement?


No, no network can broadcast upconverted SD and call it HD. Please show me where this is going on so I can notify the FCC.

Re: side bars

A lot of channels do this. TNT and TBS HD do sometimes play true HD programming, but more often than not, they are simply zooming on the exact same source they are running on their non-HD channels. The effect is quite horrible. You get some really strange geometrical defects with this. I don't think they're violating their charters, however.

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No need to apologize. And I'm glad you know I wasn't heckling you and, in fact, just made a general observation until Ernest posted what he did. I simply could not let his post go without comment.

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Greg,

Welcome to HTF! This place is an amazing source of information, to say the least. The gang here knows the subjects and I've learned a lot since becoming a member. I'm mainly a TV/DVD collector but I jump over to the film Bd occastionally to get some info Plus it's a well-admin'ed forum site. When a thread starts to get "out of control", it doesn't last too long here.

Billy, thanks for the clarificaiton post. I'm somewhat new myself to the HD world having recently entered it with my 1st WS TV & upgraded DTV HD svc. Fortunately, I'm one of the "4:3 sidebars don't get to me" crowd. It's good that I am since I watch a lot of 4:3 OAR material.

One thing I can say for certain for anyone out there considering entering the WS TV market. You'll never want to go back to a 4:3 CRT TV I've found that my 50" Plasma set doesn't take away anything from watching even some 50's/60's TV/DVD's on it. And anamorphic films...WOW

The only "peeve" that I have is waiting for (hopefully) the anamorphic releases of a few of the older LB movies in my collection.

Re: side bars

I have a "wide screen" TV and not the "normal" 4:3 TV. I will define "stretch" which will distort a picture such that a circle is no longer a circle but an oval.My german TV "Loewe" has various picture options: 16:9, 4:3, "Pan", "Cine", and "Zoom". I'd forget the names and use : 16:9 and 4:3, Zoom1, Zoom2, and Zoom3.

16:9 is for most DVDs that are not 4:3 (or "Letterboxed"). All TV programs will use 4:3 or one of the Zooms.The german stations ARD and ZDF have a widescreen "PALPLUS" which fills the screen. This is a widescreen LB. No picture information is missing and a circle is a circle. Other german stations use zoom2 or zoom3. Depending on the particular TV, if one has a picture with black bars left & right AND top & bottom, one must then use the zoom function to adjust the picture. This a widescreen Letter Box. As described above, TV programs that are 4:3 will have only black bars left & right. For a 4:3 picture, if you choose 16:9. you will distort or "stretch" the picture. The whole screen will be used but the picture will be distorted. There are some DVDs that are not 16:9 but are letter-boxed. Examples are the original Star Wars 4,5 and 6. Also "Barry Lydon" and surprisingly DGG's Verdi Macbeth. Most DGG, Philips, and DECCA DVDs are 16:9 wide screen.

I usually watch 4:3 programs with the left & right black bars. A friend told me that after 6 months, you will fill the screen but not me!. For my TV the first setting "zoom1" almost fills the screen with 2 very thin bars left and right and a small bit of info is missing. I also have a friend who zooms further so that there are no bars, but then alot of picture information is lost.

There are some 16:9 DVDs, that have black bars top and bottom due to the Aspect Ratio of the film such as Ben Hur but no picture information is lost. For many widescreen films this is normal.

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gcan, Summnernor sums up all the black bar options nicely. I never stretch anything on my TV, and the only time I zoom is if I am watching a non-anamorphic widescreen movie. As long as you have a big screen, I do not think you will regret watching anything in its proper aspect ration. I have a 62" screen, but your 50" screen is still pretty big, and movies should look fine on your display without any zooming.

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greg you'll find a lot of friends here.

billy great job quoting that ridiculous post by ernest, he must have been kidding.

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Ah, I just noticed that Ernest completely nuked his post. I don't get it - can someone explain that to me - is he a troll?

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A bad attempt at humor or thought better of that post??? Either way, let's move on.





Crawdaddy

Re: side bars

Greg, first of all, congratulations on your new TV.

Movies and TV programming come in all sorts of different aspect ratios. That's just the reality of it. It's been like this since the beginning, but this may have been hidden by the fact that, frequently, movies are cropped to fit the entire frame of TV set.

I think if you try to get used to each show or movie's correct aspect ratio, eventually you won't mind the bars at the top and bottom or on the sides. In my opinion, those are preferable to having your picture distorted or cropped by zooming or stretching, where in some cases you'll be missing some important information.