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FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 5

post #121 of 170
4/21/09 at 12:04pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shout Factory has done a great job in the past with McHale's Navy, You Bet Your Life, My Two Dads, Mr. Belvedere, and Spin City so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt with Rhoda.
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post #122 of 170
4/21/09 at 12:36pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like Shout and I like this series. Hopefully it's not as bad as they say. I'd like to pick it up, but I would like a 2nd review of someone who has actually seen it.

Any other online reviews yet besides DVD Talk?

Anyone else in this thread bought it and able to report back yet?
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post #123 of 170
4/21/09 at 12:48pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sitcoms online was the first to review it weeks before DVD Talk did. And they were the first to break the news on the edits. Stuart simply confirmed what that review already said.
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post #124 of 170
4/21/09 at 12:57pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm waiting for my set to arrive from UPS. Once I have it, even though I'm at work, I'm going to pop it in the computer and check it out. I fear that the two reviews that we've gotten are probably pretty accurate. We'll see but I'm not expecting much.
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post #125 of 170
4/21/09 at 1:13pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnisanian2001
Jon, how do you know this? Your review for the set isn't even up yet.

Also, what about the original music? Is all of it cleared?

I'll have a review before release date, but I checked and all the episodes are 23-24 minutes.

As far as music, the theme is there, but I don't remember the show well enough to see if there was any music replacement. Anything I should look for?
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post #126 of 170
4/21/09 at 2:18pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm watching episode one right now. I'll be back with more detail once I've seen the whole episode.
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post #127 of 170
4/21/09 at 3:01pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, well the first episode isn't as bad as has been reported. Yes, there is quite a bit of dirt and grain to the episode. The colors are kind of on the soft side but not totally washed out. There is still plenty of colorful things to see in Brenda's apartment. The show still has that very mid 70s look.

The sound on the first episode is decent. I could hear everything fine.

As for the edits, well, other than the Mary Tyler Moore parts, the episode plays exactly lilke it did on Nick at Nite in the late 90s.

The picture is an improvement over those worn out syndicated episodes that Nick at Nite showed. However, I do have to say that there is still room for even more improvement. If, and this is a really big if, Shout does go ahead with season two, there needs to be a marked increase in the picture and sound quality.
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post #128 of 170
4/21/09 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched the first two disks. After reading the reviews I had such low expectations, that I was pleasantly surprised that it was not as bad as I expected. That's NOT by any means to disagree with the reviews on DVDTalk or sitcomsonline, but rather to say I was expecting the absolute worse.

The quality varies greatly from episode to episode with one episode being well above average in clarity, while another has obvious flecks and grain. ("Parents Day" for example was on the high end of the clarity scale, as contrasted with the pilot ep. "Joe" which had a lot more obvious imperfections)

I have all 5 seasons taped from Nick-At Nite in the 1990s and this set was an improvement over that (which is not necessarily saying a lot).

I'm not as much a sound/video officianado as many of the posters here, and am therefore probably not as sensitive to minor imperfections as many of the more discerning eyes and ears who post here. With that said, I did notice a subtle hissing sound on a few of the episodes, but not enough to be overtly distracting or interfere with my enjoyment of the ep. It was only really noticeable on my TV if I cranked the volume way up. At a normal listening volume, it wasn't much of an issue for these ears.

Overall, I thought that the picture quality was SUPERIOR in most cases to the Room 222 set which I rented, but didn't buy. As for the edits, since I only saw the show in syndication, I can't attest to specific scenes that are missing from the cut episodes.

My overall assessment is that the quality is below the standard I've come to expect from Shout! Factory based on past purchases. I have other Shout! series (Here's Lucy, That Girl 1-4, Ozzie and Harriet) and this set , by far, has the most inconsistent quality of any of my purchases.

On the upside, I was expecting "God Awful", and the eps I've seen so far didn't fall into that category. That said, I fully understand the sentiment of those who oppose paying $30, on principle, for a sub-par release.

This set was at the top of my personal "Most Wanted List". I held onto my Nick-at-Nite copies thinking I'd never see it on DVD, so while mildly disappointed, I am still glad to have access to it.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that if there is a second release, that as was the case with Father Knows Best, that they will get UNcut eps and improve the overall quality. Time will tell.
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post #129 of 170
4/21/09 at 7:28pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ollie, did you notice any time compression? That was something that the DVDtalk review pointed out, but the SitcomsOnline review, for some reason, didn't. If so, were they in the syndicated episodes or the network episodes?
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post #130 of 170
4/21/09 at 7:54pm
Thread Starter 

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnisanian2001
Ollie, did you notice any time compression? That was something that the DVDtalk review pointed out, but the SitcomsOnline review, for some reason, didn't. If so, were they in the syndicated episodes or the network episodes?

If it was there I didn't notice it. But I offer the disclaimer that I'm not the connoisseur that many on this board are. I've read posts which mention minor imperfections on some sets that would have totally escaped me had I not known to look for them. So if the time compression was there, it was not overtly obvious to my sometimes "less than discerning" senses.

You could always Netflix a disk or two first if you're thinking about it but unsure.
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post #131 of 170
4/21/09 at 8:55pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I watched only the first two episodes on the set, and I really enjoyed the show a lot. Keep in mind I haven't seen it since those late at night Nick@Nite airings when I first fell in love with the show.

I would love to have seen full length uncut episodes but I can't yell too much. I really want a season 2 set etc. I will keep my fingers crossed for the best. I am sure it was a very tough decision on SHOUT factorys part on releasing the Season 1 set as is, I don't think they took it lightly. we may not like the outcome but I am sure they are aware of fans being a bit saddened by the syndicated cuts on I think someone mentioned 15 episodes on the set.

I still have to highly recommend the set. I love RHODA and it was a joy revisiting the show again after so many years.

I love the Billy Goldenberg music and theme, the sets, and the mood of the show.
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post #132 of 170
4/21/09 at 9:23pm
Thread Starter 

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the Shout! Factory staff members (B. Ward) posted this recent comment (4/17)in a thread on their forums discussing the Rhoda release. Here's an excerpt of the quote. It may shed some additional insight on what transpired with this release and why. A link to the actual forum post is contained beneath the quote for those who'd like to read the thread and original quote in its entirety.


" I'm positive that the original film elements exist SOMEWHERE. The question is where? And how do we get to it? In fairness to Fox, no one working there today dealt with these elements when they were initially stored, which was prior to easy digital cataloging. So even the people I work with aren't money-grubbing suits. They legitimately don't know where those elements are, either. So it would take a great deal of sleuthing to find those elements and restore them. Not that we're not willing, but it would also take a great deal time and resources, meaning folks would certainly have to be patient between volumes. And, as you've seen on other threads, some fans aren't always as understanding or forgiving, when it comes to waiting between sets.

We certainly aim to please, but we also know that, while we try, we certainly can't please everyone. Despite its flaws with the tape damage and syndicated episodes, I still enjoy Rhoda very much. In fact, I was just watching a couple of the episodes for pleasure yesterday."


Direct link to the forum thread containing the post:

Shout! Factory Community - Rhoda: What can be done?
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post #133 of 170
4/22/09 at 12:59am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The pilot episode tag with Rhoda calling Mary on the phone - said to be deleted in syndication - I remember seeing it, which would've probably been when Comedy Central was airing Rhoda in the early 90s.

Unless there was another episode where Rhoda calls Mary that I'm just not remembering.

It is pretty shameful to put out substandard product when it's said some of the elements exist in places like the Museum of TV & Radio. Shout! has done such a great job finding elements in the past; it's embarrassing that they screwed up on this one.
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post #134 of 170
4/22/09 at 6:27am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Byrne
Unless there was another episode where Rhoda calls Mary that I'm just not remembering.
Well, there's an episode of "Mary Tyler Moore" where Mary calls Rhoda (who's in bed with Joe) for advice on her own boyfriend (also named Joe). Is it possible that's what you're thinking of?
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post #135 of 170
4/22/09 at 7:56am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
One of the Shout! Factory staff members (B. Ward) posted this recent comment (4/17)in a thread on their forums discussing the Rhoda release.

"I'm positive that the original film elements exist SOMEWHERE. The question is where? And how do we get to it? In fairness to Fox, no one working there today dealt with these elements when they were initially stored, which was prior to easy digital cataloging. So even the people I work with aren't money-grubbing suits. They legitimately don't know where those elements are, either. So it would take a great deal of sleuthing to find those elements and restore them. Not that we're not willing, but it would also take a great deal time and resources, meaning folks would certainly have to be patient between volumes. And, as you've seen on other threads, some fans aren't always as understanding or forgiving, when it comes to waiting between sets."
I don't agree with this statement at all. I don't know of any TV on DVD fan who is unwilling to wait between seasons when they know a QUALITY product is at stake. The ONLY reason TV on DVD fans get nervous about long gaps between season set releases is because there is now an all too familiar studio history of abandoning some series all together.

How may people reading this thread do not already have three, four, five or more abandoned series in their TV on DVD library?

Reading between the lines, if SHOUT! Factory's position is that it is better to rush out poor quality, sub-standard (syndicated cuts, etc.) season sets of Rhoda on a faster timetable, rather than taking the time to do it right, then they just made my buying decision a whole lot easier...
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post #136 of 170
4/22/09 at 10:09am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchman
I don't agree with this statement at all. I don't know of any TV on DVD fan who is unwilling to wait between seasons when they know a QUALITY product is at stake. The ONLY reason TV on DVD fans get nervous about long gaps between season set releases is because there is now an all too familiar studio history of abandoning some series all together.

How may people reading this thread do not already have three, four, five or more abandoned series in their TV on DVD library?

Reading between the lines, if SHOUT! Factory's position is that it is better to rush out poor quality, sub-standard (syndicated cuts, etc.) season sets of Rhoda on a faster timetable, rather than taking the time to do it right, then they just made my buying decision a whole lot easier...

The problem is that Shout Factory is at the mercy of Fox for any original materials. And if Rhoda were a high priority at Fox, they'd release it themselves. Fox obviously decided that a restoration from original materials wasn't going to be cost-effective.

Given that the time and resources necessary to find, transfer and clean up the original materials isn't going to be expended in the foreseeable future, Shout rightly decided to do the best they could with what they have, rather than wait indefinitely for a restoration that isn't on anyone's horizon.

It's a sad state of affairs but it's also common knowledge that the MTM shows were never properly handled. Even the original syndication prints of MTM that aired immediately after its network run were notoriously slipshod.
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post #137 of 170
4/22/09 at 10:25am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I got mine yesterday and tore through the first disc and a half last night. With all of its issues, I am really happy I got it.

There seems to be a direct correlation between the a/v quality of a particular episode and its running time. The two uncut episodes on disc one (YOU CAN GO HOME AGAIN and PARENT'S DAY--incidentally one of my favorite episodes of the entire series) look phenomenal, while the syndicated episodes are softer and dirtier.

I haven't come across anything that I recognize as time compression yet.

One interesting thing is that YOU CAN GO HOME AGAIN contains a longer opening than I have ever seen. After "the first thing I remember liking that liked me back was food" there is a passage in which she discusses all of her grades in school being good, except for self control. I have never seen that bit anywhere before. It's the only episode with the longer intro that I've yet come across so I don't know if it appears again or how often it was actually used in the show's first run.
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post #138 of 170
4/22/09 at 10:32am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I too, have watched the first two discs and this is certainly not as bad as has been reported. Given that statement, please keep in mind that I don't have one of those fancy new 16x9 HD widescreen TV sets nor a top of the line DVD player. So, in all porbabilty most of the video issues aren't going to be all that discernable to my eyes. Certain things like dirt, flecks, lines and a couple of more noticeable video flaws I did notice. The quality does vary from episode to episode. The vidoe quality is not, in my opinion, pathetic, bootleg quaitly or even (as has been stated by one online reviewer) 'something you'd expect from a fly by night public domain outfit.' Honestly, I've seen some public domain DVDs that were trully pathetic and the Rhoda set doesn't come quite that close to being that bad.

As for the sound, I could here everything clearly even though I did notice a drop in volume from episode to episode. Some episodes were certainly clearer than others.

I did pull out my old VHS tapes from 1997 when I taped Rhoda off Nick at Nite and the episodes on this set are certainly an improvement over those old beat up versions they showed. While that isn't saying much, it's at least something.

As for the poor edits that have been reported. I didn't notice any really bad or poor edits. Most seemed to be smooth. Again, this could be my TV and DVD palyer not picking up on every flaw that may be present. While to most viewers these edits are not quite so obvious as has been reported, they are present. Even though I've only ever seen the show in syndication, I did notice a couple of spots where it was obvious that something was missing. That has more to do with the fact that the dialogue suddenly just doesn't make sense for a couple of seconds. Instances where characters are responding to something that was said earlier but we as viewers don't know what was said because the previous line or two is missing. Places where the studio audience is laughing at some joke or visual gag but the joke or gag is missing so all we here is the laughter and don't really know what was funny. In other words, pretty typical for any syndicated cut of a sitcom.

I know in previous posts I have been rather harsh in my criticism of Shout Factory and this release in particular. I think I may have let my passion for this show rule my emotions and possible good sense. For that I do apologize. The only defense I can give is that, along with Soap, Rhoda is one of my all time favorite shows and I have waited a long time for it to be released on DVD. The early reports and reviews certainly painted a picture of a real disaster and this turned out to not be the case.

This set is not as bad as the reviews have stated. The set is not pathetic. It is not perfect by any means. I do feel that instead of trying to rush this set out to just to be in time for the 35th anniversary, Shout should have taken much, much more time and care to track down better masters and more uncut episodes. If that meant waiting another year or two, then fine. I had waited this long, another year or two wasn't going to kill me.

The down side to all of this is that, and I stand by my previous statement, Shout pretty much shot themselves in the foot with this release. The early bad press pretty much (in my opinion) guarantees that we will not be seing any more Rhoda on DVD. Even if down the road better source materials are found for season one, we will never get another, better season one set. The damage is done.

Is this a quality release? In all honesty, no it is not but is certainly isn't as bad as previously reported.

Am I pleased with the set? Not really. While I do feel that it certainly is better that what I already have on VHS, it's not perfect. I think with more time and care the set could have been a steller release.

Am I going to keep my set? Yes. Only because, sadly, at the end of the day, this will probably be the only release we are going to get.

Would I recomend this set inspite of the flaws? Honestly, no. While I praised Shout for thier Room 222 set inspite of the low video quality, there is a big difference between that and Rhoda. First, Room 222 hasn't been seen in decades and is a much less remembered show than Rhoda. Secondly, Room 222 was all complete and uncut episodes. That went a long way in my overall opinion of that set and acceptance of the less than steller video quality. I can't say the same thing for Rhoda.

On a final note, the famous wedding episode that has supposedly been edited when released on VHS before. Well, all I can say is that I have the four tape set The Best Of Rhoda and the wedding episode is on the first volume in that set. I have watched that tape for years and I certainly didn't find anything on the DVD version that is different or new compared to the VHS version. The VHS version is the hour long presentation and so is the DVD so I didn't see any difference. Well, other than better picture and sound quality. Now, this might just be a bit of nit pick, but the second episode on the DVD has the 100% complete season one opening. So far, this is the only time that it is shown on the DVD. Including the wedding episode. There lines, 'In school my grades were ok. Mostly Bs and Cs. Except for self control. Bleh.' are missing. Now, whether or not these lines were cut out of the opening while the show was in production or cut out after the first few episodes originally aired, I don't know. If they weren't cut out until the show went into syndication, then (now here comes the nit pick) since these few lines are missing from the wedding episode, the wedding episode is not complete and uncut as stated. Trivial, I know but I thought I'd mention it.

So, after viewing the first two discs of Rhoda Season 1, there is my honest assessment of the set. I really can't be more honest than this.

If, and I do mean if, Shout does release the second season, I feel that instead of waisting time and resources to produce any featurettes or interviews, they should focus more on getting better quality masters. And if they really want to have a bonus feature on the set, then they need to get to the Paley Media Center in Los Angeles and get permission to transfer the complete and uncut pilot episode that the Paley Center has to DVD. If Shout could find a way to make that happen...well let's say it would restore some of my previous faith in Shout and thier products.
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post #139 of 170
4/22/09 at 11:35am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The wedding episode originally had a song called "Lady of Spain" that was played on accordion. It was replaced by a generic tune in VHS and in syndication. I asked skees53, who reviewed it, if "Lady of Spain" is intact on the DVD, and he told me that it is.
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post #140 of 170
4/22/09 at 11:59am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes. Lady of Spain is on the DVD.
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post #141 of 170
4/22/09 at 12:10pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian,

Thanks for that review from (obviously) a *real fan* of the series. It was very much appreciated!

Unfortunately, now I'm *really* on the fence regarding this release. Even though you expressed some enthusiasm for the set, you ended by stating that you still couldn't reccomend it!

I dunno': I know it's probably a little trivial in the grand scheme of things, but this set got an immediate negative vibe from me when I learned that the Mary Tyler Moore cameo had been cut out of the initial episode. I agree with you that if "Shout" will promise *right now* that they will provide an uncut iteration of this episode as a bonus on the second season set then that would go a long way toward getting me (and probably many others) off the fence.
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post #142 of 170
4/22/09 at 12:55pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike*SC
Well, there's an episode of "Mary Tyler Moore" where Mary calls Rhoda (who's in bed with Joe) for advice on her own boyfriend (also named Joe). Is it possible that's what you're thinking of?

You know what, you might be right. Though for some reason I am remembering it as a Rhoda episode... I could just be confused.

Either way it had me thinking "they must've done crossovers like this often back then" when I was watching.
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post #143 of 170
4/23/09 at 9:25am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

After reading the DVD Talk review, I immediately jumped over to Amazon.ca and cancelled my order of Rhoda Season 1. There's no sitting on the fence with me - if they can't get us an unedited version of the show, what's the point. How would you like it if scenes from The Godfather were cut and then charged $29.99 for that version? I'm not that fussed about the quality of the video (some All in the Family episodes look horrible but the content is still great).

I was stupid enough to purchase WKRP after all the warnings against it and they were all right; I'll not be made a fool of twice.

Thanks Brime Hines for an honest assessment of the quality of Rhoda.
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post #144 of 170
4/23/09 at 11:05am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe*A
After reading the DVD Talk review, I immediately jumped over to Amazon.ca and cancelled my order of Rhoda Season 1. There's no sitting on the fence with me - if they can't get us an unedited version of the show, what's the point. How would you like it if scenes from The Godfather were cut and then charged $29.99 for that version? I'm not that fussed about the quality of the video (some All in the Family episodes look horrible but the content is still great).

I was stupid enough to purchase WKRP after all the warnings against it and they were all right; I'll not be made a fool of twice.

Thanks Brime Hines for an honest assessment of the quality of Rhoda.

Hard to compare RHODA with WKRP ... those song cuts hurt a lot more then the syndicated eps of Rhoda, hard for WKRP to work with the new music cues, it really killed the flow of WKRP.

I don't care for the edits of RHODA but it isn't near as bad. I am still happy I got the set. Esp since most who were skeptical like I was gave it a try and it is not as bad as it could be or would seem.

I wish WKRP didn't get released as it did for sure.. same to Rhoda maybe try to rent a disc and give it a try. It is a such a great show.
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post #145 of 170
4/23/09 at 12:53pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've been watching more of this set, and despite the cuts, I have to admit I do LOVE having Rhoda on DVD. It's really not a different experience from watching in syndication.

I'd wish for something better, and think Shout! should definitely look into some fixes, but this is definitely better than no Rhoda at all. To skip it, I think, would result in seriously missing out on some still-good episodes.

I guess I liken it to "what if I taped them off the air when it was on N@N or Comedy Central" - I'd still be missing these scenes most likely, and I'd have to fast forward through pesky commercials. Although, I still think I may have seen that Mary scene from the pilot...

Interestingly with the pilot, it's pretty obvious they're trying to fill some time as the end credits approach, to cover up for something. I almost wonder if maybe Mary was cut for royalties purposes, or she said she'd appear in it but only the first xx runs of it, and THAT's why Fox would've cut it. I dunno.
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post #146 of 170
4/23/09 at 1:03pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

****I liken it to "what if I taped them off the air when it was on N@N or Comedy Central"****

If I want DVDs that are basically the equivalent of my taping them myself off the air with their cuts, then I have a better and less costly way of getting those. For a professional release that dresses itself in fancy packaging and creating the illusion of something better than that and which costs usually five times more than the alternative route, the standard for me is always going to be different. Hence, no sale.
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post #147 of 170
4/23/09 at 1:46pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P
****I liken it to "what if I taped them off the air when it was on N@N or Comedy Central"****

If I want DVDs that are basically the equivalent of my taping them myself off the air with their cuts, then I have a better and less costly way of getting those. For a professional release that dresses itself in fancy packaging and creating the illusion of something better than that and which costs usually five times more than the alternative route, the standard for me is always going to be different. Hence, no sale.
Yep. I agree 100%! I am not going to bash SHOUT! Factory because I think (all things considered) they are a good company and are capable of doing exemplary TV on DVD work. That said, every dollar spent on an inferior product like this, only further reinforces the ever popular studio belief that you can toss out any kind of shoddy release and still make money on it. Until such time that studios realize they can't (i.e. it is NO LONGER profitable,) the practice will continue. You can bank on it...
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post #148 of 170
4/23/09 at 4:16pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P
****I liken it to "what if I taped them off the air when it was on N@N or Comedy Central"****

If I want DVDs that are basically the equivalent of my taping them myself off the air with their cuts, then I have a better and less costly way of getting those. For a professional release that dresses itself in fancy packaging and creating the illusion of something better than that and which costs usually five times more than the alternative route, the standard for me is always going to be different. Hence, no sale.

Blank DVDs and video tape still cost money.

But hey, if your route works, then good luck getting further seasons.
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post #149 of 170
4/23/09 at 10:22pm

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I purchased my set today. I still love the show & will purchase any futture sets released. And I agree, you can't compare these cuts to the butchery which happened to WKRP..
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post #150 of 170
4/24/09 at 9:17am

Re: FINALLY.....RHODA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's another posted review of the set from "DVD Verdict":

DVD Verdict Weighs In

It's pretty much the "same ol', same ol": The reviewer praises the series, but trashes the presentation.
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