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NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 378
5/31/09 at 9:01pm

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
^^^

Mark,

Hmmm. I've been thinking that Orlando had their hearts broken when they were swept by the Rockets in the finals years ago. I think it's their turn this year.

Yeah that's true but that was a different era and different players. Heck Howard was only 9 when that happened. I hope you guy are right though. Especially given that I've already bought my plane ticket and my cousin is working on the tickets. It would be great to go there and witness a win.
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post #332 of 378
6/1/09 at 6:18am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Reports started coming out of Orlando during the weekend that Jameer Nelson might be ready to play in the finals.

Quote:
Magic say there's a chance Jameer Nelson can return vs. Lakers
posted by Bschmitz on May 31, 2009 10:41:03 PM
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If he’s judged healthy enough to return within the next few days, Orlando Magic all-star point guard Jameer Nelson will play against the team he was instrumental in beating twice this season --- the Los Angeles Lakers --- in the NBA Finals. Game 1 is Thursday night in Los Angeles.

General Manager Otis Smith told the Sentinel on Sunday that Nelson would only play if he passes “a litany of tests” and the club is comfortable with a decision that won’t risk his future.

Nelson has not played since tearing the labrum in his right shoulder on Feb. 3 against the Dallas Mavericks. He underwent what was believed to be season-ending surgery on Feb. 19, but his rehabilitation is dramatically ahead of schedule, as much as two months.

Smith said Nelson underwent an MRI as recently as last week and has participated in contact drills.

“It’s up in the air. We’ll see how Jameer looks the next few days,” Smith said. “There’s a few more things we have to get comfortable with. We’re looking at the pros and cons. Doctors will have to talk to doctors. If we’re at a place where Jameer can help us accomplish our goals, then maybe he can play and give us some more punch.

“There’s a litany of tests he’ll have to pass. His health is the main thing. We’re not going to mortgage his future.”

Nelson keyed the sweep against the Lakers. He scored 15 of his 27 points in a third-quarter stretch to spark a 106-103 victory in Orlando on Dec. 20 and scored 15 of his 28 points in the fourth period of a 109-103 Magic win in L.A.on Jan. 16.

Nelson also will have input in the final decision. “Would I like to play? Of course. I’m a competitor,” Nelson said. “But I don’t want to do anything that would jeopardize me long-term.”
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post #333 of 378
6/1/09 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I don't know what is more surprising to me. The fact that nine out of ten ESPN writers are picking the Lakers to win the series, or the fact that Tim Legler is one of the nine....

Legler was the only writer over there in his right mind last year [ ], picking Boston (although I believe he called them in seven).

Hmmm.
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post #334 of 378
6/1/09 at 9:00am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Orlando in 6.

I tend to agree here.

The Lakers have struggled throughout the play-offs with most of their series going 6 or 7 games. Plus the fact that Orlando beat the Lakers in both of their regular season meetings..
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post #335 of 378
6/1/09 at 9:56am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

It is going to take a monumental effort for the Lakers to defeat Orlando, especially the way the Magic are playing right now. Goodness, they really do live and die by the three-pointer. Thus far, they have been next to devastating with it. At least four shooters are a legimitate threat from out there.

I do see the Lakers winning this series if either of the following happens:

1) An injury to a major Orlando player;

or

2) The Magic shoot around 20% from the three-point arc. They could go cold, as they are streaky. But I think that when the series is over, they will have hovered around 44% from the arc. That's astonishing, actually.
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post #336 of 378
6/1/09 at 11:46am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Yeah, I remember that game where Jordan scored all of those points. It may have been a double-overtime game, but I'm not certain (without looking it up).

I remember that too. It was either a double-OT or triple-OT game. IIRC, John Paxson hit a shot at the buzzer to send it to one of the OTs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
One thing is pretty certain, however. Before Pippin (and eventually Rodman) got into the act, the Bulls could not defeat the Celtics handily in the playoffs.

2009 was the first time the Bulls ever won even a single playoff *game* against the Celtics. They were 0-10 all-time against the C's in the playoffs before this year. I was amazed when I saw that! Even though I followed the Celtics throughout MJ's career, I would never have guessed that he'd never beaten them in a postseason game.
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post #337 of 378
6/1/09 at 2:01pm

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
2) The Magic shoot around 20% from the three-point arc. They could go cold, as they are streaky. But I think that when the series is over, they will have hovered around 44% from the arc. That's astonishing, actually.

The Lakers are a solid perimeter defense team, so that could have an effect.

I'd really like to see Rashard Lewis win a ring. I still remember the footage of him crying his eyes out on draft day because he's from Houston and the Rockets had promised him they'd use one of their three first round draft picks on him that year. Instead they chose Michael Dickerson (not especially remembered now but a good player that was prematurely retired due to injuries), Bryce Drew (never did a damn thing), and Mirsad Turksan (supposedly a good player but he's never set foot in the NBA). Even though he's known as a soft player, I sometimes wonder if Lewis plays with an extra chip on his shoulder because of that snub.
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post #338 of 378
6/1/09 at 8:12pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Silverman
I remember that too. It was either a double-OT or triple-OT game. IIRC, John Paxson hit a shot at the buzzer to send it to one of the OTs.



2009 was the first time the Bulls ever won even a single playoff *game* against the Celtics. They were 0-10 all-time against the C's in the playoffs before this year. I was amazed when I saw that! Even though I followed the Celtics throughout MJ's career, I would never have guessed that he'd never beaten them in a postseason game.
Aaron,

You're right. I knew that, but had forgotten it. I only learned about it this year when the Celtics defeated the Bulls in the playoffs. (I will admit, I wrote 'handily' because I couldnt' recall. Just covering my bases, in other words.)
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post #339 of 378
6/1/09 at 8:24pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sheets
The Lakers are a solid perimeter defense team, so that could have an effect.
True enough. They aren't always committed on the defensive side of things, but when they are, good things to seem to happen for them.
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post #340 of 378
6/2/09 at 9:38am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

There's all this talk of "when the Lakers put it all together" they are dangerous. But the reality is (and remember I'm a Laker fan) they've only done so in very few games this post season. So suddenly, because of one good game at the end of the Nuggets series, has the "light finally come on" for them? Does one game make a trend? Because they blew out other teams in the playoffs (like Houston) only to have the favor returned the next game.

I do agree with Barkley in that the Lakers, when they're playing in top form, are the best team in the NBA (assuming all teams are playing in top form). But the reality is, they have rarely ever done so, at least in the post-season. The Magic have played much closer to their top potential than the Lakers have, on a more consistent basis, which is why I'm worried about these finals.
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post #341 of 378
6/3/09 at 8:28pm

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Team loyalty and personalities aside, from a basketball stand point, this should be a very entertaining Finals. Like many (most?) others, I thought a Lakers-Cavs Finals was inevitable, but this Magic team is so much more fun to wach than the Cavs. They have been the team of the playoffs so far. And even if I weren't a Laker fan, I would think this is the most entertaining team in the league since the "SSOL" Suns. They play at a fast pace, play at an incredible offensive efficiency, and is one of the best passing teams in the league.

I'm taking the Lakers, probably in the popular pick of 6 games (except in this thread). The season series between the teams, besides being a two game small sample size (unlike the many times the Magic have beaten the Cavs in recent times), also only yielded a total of 9 points differential. That is to say, not much. Nelson was tremendous in both of those games; if he comes back, I don't think we can assume him to be in mid-season form.

The Magic pose matchup problems to every team at the 3 and 4 spot with Hedo and Lewis, but the Lakers are probably the first team in the playoffs who could potentially exploit them as well. The Cavs got beat by them badly, but could not reciprocate the damage. Glen Davis looked like an all-star caliber player against Lewis a few times in their series. Big Baby is not as skilled, long, or athletic as Gasol and Odom (who routinely destroyed Sean Marion, a better defender than Lewis).

So yeah, I could see Gasol having trouble guarding Lewis when Bynum is in the game, but I see Gasol's advantage over Lewis to be even greater, as Lewis is frequently not aggressive enough in his own ball demands and shot selection. When Bynum is out, Odom is an ideal matchup against Lewis, and Gasol is a much quicker defender than Big Z against the Dwightmare.

Speaking of Howard, I sure hope he doesn't suddenly add another 3 moves that I've never seen from him before, as he did in the Cavs series. He was unbelievable.

I would also agree with Carlo that the Lakers have been more inconsistent in the playoffs than the Magic. But this wasn't just a complaint in the playoffs, but throughout the regular season as well. I don't know if they have "put it together" either, but they seem to frequently play up or down to the competition. Obviously, I hope the Magic bring out the best in them.

Just in case the Lakers lose, and my bitterness comes out, I must say once again that I love the Association and its playoffs. It's beyond my contemplation that anyone who loves basketball wouldn't love the NBA playoffs (yes, you NCAA bracket fillers). It's good to see some NBA discussion alive and well in here.

EDIT: Mark, even though I don't know about your certainty of Howard winning 3+ championships (life is hard to predict; see, e.g., Ralph Sampson, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, the Shakobe Lakers, etc.), I loved your first 05/31 post. I think all of us who follow a team can relate.
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post #342 of 378
6/4/09 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

From reading the articles over at ESPN, one would get the impression that the series is already over, and that the Lakers are the World Champions. Has this occurred yet? I may have missed it.

Los Angeles has a ton of experience, and some of their players have been to the Finals before. This should work in their favor. But I also like how the Magic have thus far been down 0-1, 1-2, and 2-3, and have come back to win each series. They've also proved that they can win anywhere during the regular season and in the playoffs, whereas the Lakers have not during the regular season, and in my view have been somewhat unconvincing during the playoffs. This may not seem important, but last year, the Lakers were 0-4 in Boston (and 2-6 overall against the Celtics). The good news for the Lakers is that they don't have to win another game away from the Staples Center in order to be crowned NBA champions. But, no team likes holding serve only to be down 2-3 with two games (albeit at home) remaining in a series.

Another thing about this Magic team -- and I can't say this about too many teams -- is that being down twenty to twenty-five points or so does not mean they are out of a game. They seem to have the ability to get themselves back into games that they look to be out of, at least this year. I can't make that claim for the Celtics, Cavaliers, or Lakers.

Interesting tidbit: I didn't realize that the Magic have not lost at the Staples center for a couple of years.
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post #343 of 378
6/4/09 at 10:06am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Interesting tidbit: I didn't realize that the Magic have not lost at the Staples center for a couple of years.
But don't they only play there like once a year? So that means they're 2-0?

Seriously, both teams have shown that they can win on the road (and conversely, lose at home). Both teams are battle tested. Experience does reside with the Lakers, but sometimes that youthful exuberance that the Magic have can translate to not knowing that you should be nervous (which in turn translates to playing more loose and pressure-free, as opposed to the Lakers who will be feeling the pressure of expectations, as well as the spectre of last year's results).

I'm really looking forward to this series. I see it going 6 or 7, I would be really shocked if either team won it in less than that, barring injuries to a major player (and knock on wood that both teams stay relatively healthy).
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post #344 of 378
6/4/09 at 11:28am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
But don't they only play there like once a year? So that means they're 2-0?
Yeah, unless you count preseason games, in which case the Magic are 49-0. J/K.

Playing loose and more pressure-free? Agreed. I thought of this during the Cavaliers - Magic series. What did the Magic really have to lose? They sure seemed as though they were playing very loosely. Cleveland had a lot more to prove, I believe.

I was astonished at how many three-pointers the Magic hit in the Cleveland series. If they can keep that up, the Lakers will be in for a battle.
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post #345 of 378
6/5/09 at 6:18am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Boy, last nights game was hard to watch, but not entirely unexpected. The whole magic team had that "So this is what it is like in the finals....was that Kobe dunking?" look about them. Hopefully they got that out of their system and the rest of the series will be more competitive.

It was a real thrill to see Nelson out there again. He looked VERY rusty though. I would like to have seen him in more limited minutes.
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post #346 of 378
6/5/09 at 7:29am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Leiter
Boy, last nights game was hard to watch, but not entirely unexpected. The whole magic team had that "So this is what it is like in the finals....was that Kobe dunking?" look about them. Hopefully they got that out of their system and the rest of the series will be more competitive.

It was a real thrill to see Nelson out there again. He looked VERY rusty though. I would like to have seen him in more limited minutes.
Mark,

Nelson's passing skills are a joy to watch. In some respects, I thought I was seeing Steve Nash out there.

The Magic just have to forget about this game and move on. I'm confident that they will.
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post #347 of 378
6/5/09 at 7:38am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I do wonder about Nelson returning so quickly. If he doesn't have his outside shot [he made his first one, then airballed one and barely grazed the front of the rim on another], the Lakers will cease to honor the shot and play his drives and the passing lanes (which to some extent they did after he made a few early assists when he first went into the game). He has to be effective from outside to ensure that the Lakers keep their hands up contesting his shots instead of looking to deflect his passes.

Also have to wonder about team chemistry. I know he was a huge part of the regular season in the games he played [especially the two wins over L.A.], but this Magic team really went through the wars of the postseason without him, learned to win without him, and you could see that they were a bit out of step with him in there. The postseason is a whole different beast and you could tell the Magic learned to play without him, and people who compensated for his loss really grew into their new roles, and now those same people went MIA. But now the genie's out of the bottle, it's not like Van Gundy will now say "thank you, but we lost, so sit down" to him. They will have to readjust to playing with him on the fly, and Magic fans should hope they are quick learners.

Game 2 will now go a long way in telling how this series will go. If the Magic bounce back and are competitive, or win, then we are going to have that hotly contested 6 or 7 game series we thought we'd have. If it's a repeat, I don't think the Lakers will sweep, but it will likely be over in 5.
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post #348 of 378
6/5/09 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

^^^

I too have wondered about Nelson's return. I was thinking during the Celtics post-season run that eventually having Garnett play (assuming that this were possible) might have been a bit of a distraction, for many of the reasons you mention above.

The Magic are a well-oiled unit thus far in the playoffs -- I hope that as good as Nelson is, he doesn't curtail that chemistry too much at this point. I don't know how this will work out, nor do I know what van Gundy's plans are for him for the rest of the series.
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post #349 of 378
6/7/09 at 8:15pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Well, I want to be the first to say I was wrong about the Magic splitting in Los Angeles. That's a shame -- the game was theirs for the taking before OT.

That was a wonderful call by Orlando with 6/10ths of a second remaining. I had no idea C. Lee was going to take that shot. The Magic had the Lakers beat -- too bad the shot wouldn't go for them.
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post #350 of 378
6/10/09 at 8:57am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

This is quite interesting. I guess the Magic did gain a split in Los Angeles after all.

Phil Jackson: Pau Gasol goaltended on Courtney Lee's key miss - ESPN

BTW, I'm probably the only one on this Board who believes this, but I still believe that the Orlando Magic will win the series against the Los Angeles Lakers.
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post #351 of 378
6/10/09 at 11:01am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I fully agree, Pau goaltended.

But so did Howard (who clearly reached THROUGH the basket to block Pau's shot) earlier in the game.

So Lakers still sweep at home

Overall a great game last night though. If the Magic can do that the rest of the way, we'll have a very hotly contested series.
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post #352 of 378
6/11/09 at 9:07am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I think the refs intentionally let that go (assuming they didn't all just miss it). No way was that shot going in, regardless of Gasol's move.
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post #353 of 378
6/12/09 at 5:46am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Wow, the Magic's free throw shooting did them in last night, that was just terrible basketball IQ on display in crunch time.
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post #354 of 378
6/12/09 at 6:33am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
Wow, the Magic's free throw shooting did them in last night, that was just terrible basketball IQ on display in crunch time.
Agreed. If Howard makes even one of two free throws in the waning seconds, Orlando goes up by four, and the series is probably 2-2. Free throw shooting has been the Magic's achilles heal this season, at least for some of the players. Now I guess we'll really see what the Magic are made of, eh?
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post #355 of 378
6/12/09 at 8:30am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
terrible basketball IQ on display in crunch time.

How do you defend a 3-point shooter inside the 3-point line?!?

This game never should have gone into OT.
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post #356 of 378
6/13/09 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Here's a fun and interesting article on one of the most effective shots in the history of the game. I agree with most everything in Part 1 (heck, I remember Lew Alcindor vividly when he played with the Bucks); Part 2, however, makes a few claims that I don't necessarily agree with. I don't think the all-time scoring record is unbreakable, but I do think it will stand the test of time for quite a while.

ESPN - Secrets of the Skyhook
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post #357 of 378
6/14/09 at 8:30pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Well, I was dead wrong about the Magic's chances of defeating the Lakers in the Finals. I really thought they were going to pull it off.

Congratulations to all Los Angeles Lakers fans. You deserve this championship. The Lakers handled Boston and Cleveland in the regular season, and Orlando in the playoffs. They defeated three of the four toughest teams in the NBA en route to their fifteenth championship.
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post #358 of 378
6/15/09 at 7:59am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
Congratulations to all Los Angeles Lakers fans. You deserve this championship.

The team deserves the championship. The fans, based on the following article, leave much to be desired.

At Least 25 Lakers Fans Arrested After Near-Riot
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post #359 of 378
6/15/09 at 8:17am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I don't think it's fair to judge Laker fans as a whole based on that one incident. And to pick on Laker fans based on that incident is a bit unfair: I seem to recall quite a few cities suffering similar fates when their team wins championships in most major U.S. sports. Let's not even talk about what happens internationally when teams win the World Cup.
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post #360 of 378
6/15/09 at 10:22am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Well, the Lakers made the big shots when they had to, and the Magic did not do the little things they had to in order to win the close games, and that gave the Lakers a deserved win in the finals. Liked Phil's X hat that his children made for him.
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