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NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread - Page 11

post #301 of 378
5/27/09 at 4:46am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Somewhere right now, David Stern and ABC Sports executives are sweating bullets.
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post #302 of 378
5/27/09 at 6:14am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

It's over for Lebron. They don't have an answer. I can understand why the NBA wants Kobe/Lebron. If it's magic and nuggets I probably will not watch more than 20-30 minutes for the entire finals. Not because I don't like the NBA, just no interest in those teams.
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post #303 of 378
5/27/09 at 6:44am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield
Somewhere right now, David Stern and ABC Sports executives are sweating bullets.

Maybe if the NBA promoted competition instead of individual players and large market teams they wouldn't have to be sweating bullets They should take a lesson from March Madness and the NFL and realize that the possibility of upsets is a big part of what drives casual viewer interest. Not that they should go to a one-and-done format, but things like making the first round longer a few years ago to reduce the possibility of high seeds being eliminated early aren't helpful because it makes the league predictable.

As for Lebron, I wouldn't count out the Cavs just yet as you can come back from 3-1 but it's just really hard. What I question is whether Cleveland's coaching staff is good enough to make the right adjustments to let that happen (I don't think they've been very impressive so far).
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post #304 of 378
5/27/09 at 8:10am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_Tk
It's over for Lebron. They don't have an answer. I can understand why the NBA wants Kobe/Lebron. If it's magic and nuggets I probably will not watch more than 20-30 minutes for the entire finals. Not because I don't like the NBA, just no interest in those teams.

The NBA playoffs is not and should not be a popularity contest. It should not matter which team or in this case which player is the most popular. It should be about which team is the best team. Having the best player on your team dosent make your team the best team. This is being proven most emphaticly in the Orlando/Cleveland series, though it most definately is not over yet.

If popularity is all that matters then why even bother with the playoffs at all? Why not just have a 82 game exibition season and at the end of that season take a poll of which players everyone wants in the finals? But then we already do that. It's called the All-Star game.

Anyone that won't watch a potential NBA Finals between Denver and Orlando when they have PROVEN themselves to be the best 2 teams in the league through a grueling 82 game season then a highly contested and hard fought 12-21 game playoffs because they arent popular isn't a real basketball fan and the NBA is better off with out you.
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post #305 of 378
5/27/09 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
I get that feeling that LeBron won't get a ring until he gets his own "Scotty Pippen" on the Cavs, plus some sharp-shooters that can fill the basket with driving dishes by LeBron.
Agreed -- 100%. Which for me, begs that I ask the question which team LeBron will be playing his games for next year. And this is a question that I hadn't even seriously considered before I watched the Cleveland - Orlando series. The media wanted us to consider it, but only after having seen the supporting cast of the Cavaliers in the playoffs had I given it serious thought.
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post #306 of 378
5/27/09 at 9:34am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Scottie Pippen is available. Cleveland can sign him. Problem solved.

Go Magic! (I can't stand the Not-really Basketball Association, but I still pull for the local teams, no matter what the sport).
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post #307 of 378
5/27/09 at 9:35am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Leiter
Unbelievable, just unbelievable. What an incredible played game by both sides. I think this is the best game that Cleveland has played so far. This finally is the team that won 66 games this year. They got big contributions from all their starters. Lebron was a beast in the fourth. But Howard just took over in OT and he again hit his free throws (7-9). If he become consistent with that kind of FT shooting the league better watch out, he'll be unstoppable.

I don't know how many of these games I can take. I was about to have a heart attack the whole fourth and OT. Even now this series is not over, I really like Orlando's chances from here but it is still not over. But just in case they do win it, I've already talked to my cousin and I will be taking a plane ride to go to a finals game come June.
Mark,

I can help you out a little concerning Orlando's chances. The Magic will win this series (probably in six as I wrote above, but maybe in five). The Lakers will defeat Denver, and then Orlando will take the championship in six games against the Lakers, much like the Celtics did last year, except that the Magic will (IMO) win the series on Los Angeles' home court (game six). I think it will go something like this. The Magic will split in L.A., and then take two of three at home. Then they will win game six on the Lakers' home court.

That being said, I did not think before the NBA playoffs began that the Magic would be in the NBA Finals. Now that they will be, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
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post #308 of 378
5/27/09 at 9:41am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Leiter
The NBA playoffs is not and should not be a popularity contest. It should not matter which team or in this case which player is the most popular. It should be about which team is the best team. Having the best player on your team dosent make your team the best team. This is being proven most emphaticly in the Orlando/Cleveland series, though it most definately is not over yet.

If popularity is all that matters then why even bother with the playoffs at all? Why not just have a 82 game exibition season and at the end of that season take a poll of which players everyone wants in the finals? But then we already do that. It's called the All-Star game.

I agree with you Mark, but I do not think the casual fan does. During two different eras here in Detroit we had to listen to why the Pistons were not good for the NBA. They played physical, defensive basketball, and it worked -- three NBA titles and five Finals appearances. However, there was constant whining that it was not "entertaining".
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post #309 of 378
5/27/09 at 9:44am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Leiter
Having the best player on your team dosent make your team the best team. This is being proven most emphaticly in the Orlando/Cleveland series, though it most definately is not over yet.
Mark,

And it was proven last year when the Celtics defeated the Lakers. They had (in many people's estimation) the greatest player on the planet, if not the greatest player ever to play the game. And they were trounced, both in the regular season and in the NBA Finals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sheets
As for Lebron, I wouldn't count out the Cavs just yet as you can come back from 3-1 but it's just really hard.
I heard on ESPN that it's currently 192-8 (eight teams have done it). I did not realize that that many teams had rallied back from being down 1-3.

I remember vividly the Celtics - Sixers series of 1981. It was a battle for the ages. The Celtics came back from a 1-3 deficit by winning the final three games of that series. M. L. Carr was not a huge scorer, but he almost willed that team to victory over the Sixers and their Boston Strangler (a.k.a. Andrew Toney). (N.B.: The term 'Boston Strangler' for Toney was not created by me. It was given to him by various fans/sports writers during the series. Andrew Toney was a remarkable shooter and almost single-handedly defeated the Celtics in that series.)
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post #310 of 378
5/27/09 at 10:38am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

The way some are talking you would think the Lakers are down 3-0.
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post #311 of 378
5/27/09 at 10:45am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

You know what's sad is that there are casual fans out there who will look at Lebron's stat sheet, see that he's scoring 40+ point a game and think to himself "with scoring like that he should be in the Finals". All the time not realising that the reason LBJ wont be in the finals is because he is scoring 40+ point a game.
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post #312 of 378
5/27/09 at 11:31am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Lebron looked pretty gassed towards the end of that game. He was running on fumes.

Orlando's only the best team 'cause KG's knee was messed up!
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post #313 of 378
5/27/09 at 11:33am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I think the only way the Cavs win this series is if they can get Dwight Howard to get a technical foul that would boot him out of the remainder of the next current game, and then also the game after that game. Otherwise, the Cavs have a tough row to hoe to win 3 straight against the Magic, but having 2 home games helps their cause a little bit.

LeBron has to figure out how to get his teammates involved in scoring because the Magic want LeBron scoring a lot because it makes playing defense a lot easier than if the Cavs are getting more scoring from 3-4 other Cav players.
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post #314 of 378
5/27/09 at 11:36am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Leiter
The NBA playoffs is not and should not be a popularity contest. It should not matter which team or in this case which player is the most popular. It should be about which team is the best team. Having the best player on your team dosent make your team the best team. This is being proven most emphaticly in the Orlando/Cleveland series, though it most definately is not over yet.

If popularity is all that matters then why even bother with the playoffs at all? Why not just have a 82 game exibition season and at the end of that season take a poll of which players everyone wants in the finals? But then we already do that. It's called the All-Star game.

Anyone that won't watch a potential NBA Finals between Denver and Orlando when they have PROVEN themselves to be the best 2 teams in the league through a grueling 82 game season then a highly contested and hard fought 12-21 game playoffs because they arent popular isn't a real basketball fan and the NBA is better off with out you.

I never said it "should" be a popularity contest, I said I can understand why they want Kobe/Lebron and that I personally would not watch Nuggest/Magic. This is not just an NBA thing, MLB wants yankees/redsox in ALCS, NFL wants big names like Steelers, Manning, Brady in superbowl. I guess I'm not a "real" basketball fan, ouch, hitting me where it hurts. However I know for a fact that the NBA is Not better off without me.
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post #315 of 378
5/27/09 at 8:26pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

LOL. I had a complete mental lapse above. I wasn't even thinking something that is very obvious through very well. I completely forgot that the Orlando Magic would not have home-court against the Lakers -- duh. Obviously, that would change the order of wins and losses in the six-game NBA Finals victory I had planned for them.

I really despise the 2-3-2 format. I remember the year it came into being, and I hated it then. Anyway, I'll need to think about this more carefully before making any future predictions.

Okay, I amended my post above. The Magic will win their series with Cleveland (probably in six as I wrote above). I believe that the Magic will then split in L.A., and then take two of three at home. Then they will win game six on the Lakers' home court for their first-ever NBA championship.

Did I mention how much I despise the 2-3-2 format? Yeah, I did.
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post #316 of 378
5/29/09 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

So, does anyone think that the Nuggets and Cavaliers will win their respective series? I don't, but I do think that Cleveland has a better chance than Denver of advancing.

I think the Orlando Magic will wrap things up in six games. If the Cavaliers win in Orlando, I still don't see Cleveland winning game seven at home against the Magic. Orlando is peaking remarkably well and at the right time. They look like they can defeat anyone at this point. I believe them to be the best team in the NBA at the moment -- something I never thought I'd say with regard to primarily a three-point shooting team. Then again, the Magic did have the number three defense in the league, which may be why they are here in the first place.

It is possible that Denver will extend their series to seven games. Assuming that they do, I believe that it is still all but over for them in a game seven in Los Angeles. But game six (tonight) should be a fun time for all.
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post #317 of 378
5/29/09 at 11:24am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
It is possible that Denver will extend their series to seven games. Assuming that they do, I believe that it is still all but over for them in a game seven in Los Angeles. But game six (tonight) should be a fun time for all.

I, too, think that Denver has a chance to win at home tonight.

I think that a Game 7 in LA has the possibility of going into overtime but will not predict a winner. At this point, for me, it is still too close to tell.
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post #318 of 378
5/29/09 at 11:39am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

John,

It is a good series. I did not think that this Nugget team would get this far with the Lakers.

BTW, it has occurred to me that with all of my predictions in this thread, I am either going to turn out being perceived a fool or a genius. When the latter occurs, I will be accepting NBA basketball queries of all varieties on a per-hour basis.*

*Heck, this may spill over into the MLB and NHL threads as well. I would suggest that Mike Frezon and Jeff Gatie have their checkbooks ready.
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post #319 of 378
5/30/09 at 8:43am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ockeghem
So, does anyone think that the Nuggets and Cavaliers will win their respective series? I don't, but I do think that Cleveland has a better chance than Denver of advancing.

I think the Orlando Magic will wrap things up in six games. If the Cavaliers win in Orlando, I still don't see Cleveland winning game seven at home against the Magic. Orlando is peaking remarkably well and at the right time. They look like they can defeat anyone at this point. I believe them to be the best team in the NBA at the moment -- something I never thought I'd say with regard to primarily a three-point shooting team. Then again, the Magic did have the number three defense in the league, which may be why they are here in the first place.

It is possible that Denver will extend their series to seven games. Assuming that they do, I believe that it is still all but over for them in a game seven in Los Angeles. But game six (tonight) should be a fun time for all.

No!
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post #320 of 378
5/30/09 at 10:10am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
You know what's sad is that there are casual fans out there who will look at Lebron's stat sheet, see that he's scoring 40+ point a game and think to himself "with scoring like that he should be in the Finals". All the time not realising that the reason LBJ wont be in the finals is because he is scoring 40+ point a game.

I'd disagree with that. The man had twelve assists and is averaging near a triple double. Scoring well is good as long as he's passing well - which he is.

This isn't a Jordan problem. People always rail about Jordan's 63 points at Boston Garden.. except Chicago -LOST- that game, and Bird had 40 (I believe). You can score numbers in bunches and win.

Lebron's problem is that his teammates are standing around this series and look like they are sleepwalking. The game Thursday night was the first game Mo and others even looked like they were paying attention.
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post #321 of 378
5/30/09 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR
I'd disagree with that. The man had twelve assists and is averaging near a triple double. Scoring well is good as long as he's passing well - which he is.

This isn't a Jordan problem. People always rail about Jordan's 63 points at Boston Garden.. except Chicago -LOST- that game, and Bird had 40 (I believe). You can score numbers in bunches and win.

Lebron's problem is that his teammates are standing around this series and look like they are sleepwalking. The game Thursday night was the first game Mo and others even looked like they were paying attention.
Matt,

Yeah, I remember that game where Jordan scored all of those points. It may have been a double-overtime game, but I'm not certain (without looking it up). One thing is pretty certain, however. Before Pippin (and eventually Rodman) got into the act, the Bulls could not defeat the Celtics handily in the playoffs.
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post #322 of 378
5/30/09 at 8:16pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Congratulations to fans of the Los Angeles Lakers and the Orlando Magic. I hope the NBA Finals is a memorable one.

Okay, my second scenario for the Cleveland - Orlando played out exactly as I thought it might game-for-game (as far as who would win each of the first six games). The first two games were key, and IMO set the tone for the entire series.

That being said, here is what I think is going to occur in the Finals. There is no way that the Lakers will win the first two games of the series. With a split, Orlando goes home for three games. More often than not, these three games are not won by the same team. I see two possibilities here. Either 1) Orlando will win two of three, and win the series in six games (winning game six in Los Angeles); or 2) Orlando will win all three games at home. The latter is unlikely, but I think it more likely than having the Magic win the first two games in Los Angeles and then winning two of three at home. So I think the Magic will win this series in either six or (less probably) five games, after having obtained a split in Los Angeles.

Key stat: The Magic are 2-0 against Los Angeles this year. The Lakers were 2-0 against Cleveland. I am fully convinced that the Magic have a better chance of defeating the Lakers than the Cavaliers would have had had they advanced. I suppose it's a moot point now, but I believe the Cavaliers would not have stood a chance against the Lakers had they played one another in the Finals.

{It would have been interesting to hear whom the Lakers would have preferred to have played -- Cleveland or Orlando.}

Go Magic!
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post #323 of 378
5/30/09 at 8:51pm

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I know Bynum at least in the local media said he hoped to get Orlando to "pay them back."

The matter of who would the Lakers really have wanted to play (i.e. who would they have matched up best against) is more complex than 2-0 vs. Cleveland against 0-2 vs. Orlando.

When they lost to Orlando, Jameer Nelson was huge in both games, and is in street clothes now. I know Alston has done a solid job in his place, but when one very key piece of the victories is no longer a factor, you never know how that would factor in.

Also, LA has home court advantage vs. Orlando, and would not have had it against Cleveland.

By the same token, Cleveland was fully exposed as a one man team (we've known all along, but this series w/ Orlando really cemented it). So if there is one thing Phil Jackson can do well, it's game plan. If his game plan only included stopping [or limiting] essentially one guy, I think he'd have been able to do it. Orlando has multiple weapons.

So overall, it can be argued that despite losing home court advantage the Lakers would have had a larger advantage over Cleveland than Orlando.

My very early "keys" to the series will be how the Laker bigs handle Howard. If Bynum can at least keep Howard from going buck-wild for a few games, I like the Lakers' other positions [and depth] vs. the Magic's. I see the 5 as the only position where the Magic has a clear edge, the other 3 can be argued, but I'm pretty sure no one is going to argue the Laker's huge edge at the 2 guard and the 4...
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post #324 of 378
5/31/09 at 5:45am
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlino Medina
Also, LA has home court advantage vs. Orlando, and would not have had it against Cleveland.
Oddly, this may work in Orlando's favor. I'm not being coy -- the Magic are an excellent road team, and have shown me that they can defeat the elite on the road. They defeated the Lakers in L.A. (regular season), and in the playoffs they won game one in Cleveland and they won games one and seven in Boston.

This is not to say that the Lakers are not a good road team, but thus far in the playoffs, the Lakers seem to be (to my eyes) more vulnerable on the road than the Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
So overall, it can be argued that despite losing home court advantage the Lakers would have had a larger advantage over Cleveland than Orlando.
I agree wholeheartedly. The Lakers did not win a game in Boston last year, either during the regular season or the playoffs. But having defeated the Cavaliers both times during the regular season, I believe that L.A. would have taken the first or second game in Cleveland in the playoffs.

This could be a very interesting series. The Magic will have their hands full with the Lakers. But, as the number four seed (overall), they have defeated the number one seed (Cleveland) and the number three seed (Boston). In Boston and Cleveland (with apologies to the Sixers fans), they've defeated teams with a combined total of 128 victories excluding the playoffs. All that is left for them to do is to defeat the number two seed (Los Angeles). I think it can be done. We'll see.
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post #325 of 378
5/31/09 at 9:17am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

I see that everyone at ESPN is picking LA. I think they are wrong. I'm thinking Orlando in 5.
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post #326 of 378
5/31/09 at 9:36am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Orlando in 6.
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post #327 of 378
5/31/09 at 10:50am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

It was great to finally see the Orlando Magic redeem them selves last night after so many years of bad management and bad luck. This is coming from someone who has been there since the beginning in 1989. There have bee so many time I felt like such a sucker for never giving up on them.

Thru the early success of wining back to back lottery picks, then making the finals in '95. I remember watching those 4 missed free-throws by Nick Anderson, setting the stage for the sweep by Houston. One year later Shaq would leave for LA and go on to win 3 titles there. If Anderson makes even 1 of those free throws they win game 1 and the magic at least make a series out of the '95 finals. Would that have influenced Shaq to resign the next year? I can't tell you how many Magic fans have asked that question over the years.

Then they gutted the team so that they had a shot at signing 2 big time free agents. I still remember the day in 2000 when Tim Duncan and Grant Hill got off the plane together as free agents. It seemed like the franchise would be finally on the rise, but so the story goes, Duncan decided to stay in San Antonio only because of a personal appeal by David Robinson.

But it seemed at the time to be not that bad of loss. Hill signed anyway and we discovered a real up and coming talent in Tracy MacGrady. Of course no one bothered to ask whether the ankle injury Hill suffered in the playoffs that year was serious or not. And of course no one in management bothered to take out an insurance policy against it. They signed him on faith and condemned the magic to 7 years of empty promises and yearly ankle surgeries.

Who could forget the hiring of a hockey general manager to run a basketball team. Why? Who knows, I guess they thought hell would freeze over before Orlando would have a shot at a title again.

We groomed Doc Rivers so they he could go on to Boston and win a title there.

Then in '06 with Grant Hill FINALLY healthy he bolts for Phoenix and T-Mac basically demands a trade (and I don't blame him). We get the awesome talent of Steve Francis in return (read HEAVY sarcasm in that statement). Now we were stuck with another dead weight player with a max contract. By that time I was convinced I (and every Magic fan) was in basketball purgatory.

There was the 19 game losing streak and a 21 win season.

THEN, then came that magically moment. I don't mean winning the lottery or the day we drafted Dwight. This is different and to me was the beginning of the turn around. Every 22nd of February I get down on my knees and give thanks to the basketball gods for our savior Isaiah Thomas. If I had Thomas' address I would send him a Christmas card every year for the rest of my life. He was the one who agreed to the trade of Steve Francis for Travor Ariza and Penny's expiring contract. That to me was the beginning of the turn around.

Now, next week when we play the Lakers? I don't even care if we win or not. Orlando is back. Our three all-stars, Howard, Nelson and Lewis are all signed for long term deals. While it is true that Turkalo is a free agent next year and we most likely will lose him because we wont have the money to match the offers he gets, we do have a great rookie in Courtney Lee. Maybe we can do a sign and trade for a good power forward. That would let Lewis move to his natural position at small forward, then with Lee at the 2 and Nelson at point, our team would be set. Orlando is going to be a great team that challenges for the championship every year for the next 5 or 6 years

It is a great time to be an Orlando Magic fan.
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post #328 of 378
5/31/09 at 11:42am

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Leiter
I remember watching those 4 missed free-throws by Nick Anderson

Are you trying to make me cry? Unfortunately the most memorable moment in Orlando Magic history.
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post #329 of 378
5/31/09 at 1:48pm

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolesrule
Are you trying to make me cry? Unfortunately the most memorable moment in Orlando Magic history.

That's the beauty of what is happening now. None of that matters anymore. The franchise has been re-born. All that stuff that happened before is in the past. This team isn't even our future anymore. This team is our now. I'm not saying we will beat the Lakers next month. But I would bet you anything that Howard with basically this team will win the title if not this year then the next or year after.

I believe anyone that watched Orlando during this years playoffs witnessed the transformation of Dwight Howard from a dominant center to one of the most dominant players in this league. During the second half of the game last night Orlando only ran one play. Howard in the post. Cleveland just had no answer for it. They put Ilgauskas on him and Howard ran around him for dunks. They put Varejao on him and Howard backed him down for dunks. They fouled him and Howard hit 75% of his free throws. The double and triple teamed him and he passed out to his teammates for wide open 3s. It really was amazing to watch.

I firmly believe that before he is done Howard will lead his team (hopefully Orlando) to at least 3 titles and will win another one later in his career as a solid back-up. I just don't think they will win against the Lakers this year. I could be wrong but I always felt that champions have to go thru some heartbreak before they win the title. The Lakers got thier hearts broken last year (not Kobe but everyone else on that team) I just think that this year is Orlando's turns. I think they will fight hard but will end up losing, probably in 6. Just my gut feeling.
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post #330 of 378
5/31/09 at 8:16pm
Thread Starter 

Re: NBA 2008-09 Regular Season Discussion Thread

^^^

Mark,

Hmmm. I've been thinking that Orlando had their hearts broken when they were swept by the Rockets in the finals years ago. I think it's their turn this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcr
I see that everyone at ESPN is picking LA. I think they are wrong. I'm thinking Orlando in 5.
Matt,

You could very well end up being right. I'm struggling a bit with this (five or six games).
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