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A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
The original negative of Casablanca, one of the greatest and most beloved films ever created, was not always treated with respect.

Rather, it was treated harshly. How harshly? More harshly than I hope you can imagine.

With wear and tear, and pieces missing, WB gathered the surviving elements and created a digital representation of the film, and initially released it on SD and HD.

It was glorious.

Now, finally making its way to Blu-ray, Casablanca arrives in that same quality master, with the earlier extras still intact, and with a new documentary on Jack Warner, the most recognized of the Brothers, on a separate disc.

Casablanca is back, looking as it should, and while I give it and its beautiful packaging an Extremely Highly Recommended, I do so with a single caveat.

I'm aware that there are many collectors who love receiving postcard sized reproductions of stills, small books, and in this case, a small wallet suitable of holding one's Letters of Transit, and this is all well.

What I do not like is that once the aforementioned packaging is opened, and the contents dealt with, that I have no easy way of shelving the discs themselves in a protected environment. I have the same problem with the Dirty Harry Collection.

A small cardboard folder, open at the sides does not do it for me. Dust is the enemy. To that end, I would request that within whatever packaging is created in the future, that the actual discs reside in a normal, sealable plastic Blu-ray holder.

RAH

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post #2 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

If the "souvenirs" and the Warner doc are not important (as they are not to me), is there any reason I should get this to replace my HD DVD?
post #3 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulDA
If the "souvenirs" and the Warner doc are not important (as they are not to me), is there any reason I should get this to replace my HD DVD?
I think Mr. Harris answered that question:

Quote:
finally making its way to Blu-ray, Casablanca arrives in that same quality master
post #4 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I think Mr. Harris answered that question:
Not to nit-pick, but "master" and "transfer" are two entirely different things. I too would interested in knowing if this is a direct port of the HD-DVD transfer or if Warner produced a new transfer for the BD release.
post #5 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel
Not to nit-pick, but "master" and "transfer" are two entirely different things. I too would interested in knowing if this is a direct port of the HD-DVD transfer or if Warner produced a new transfer for the BD release.

Please forgive my possible ignorance, but my understanding is that a "transfer" is done in order to create a digital "master" which is subsequently "encoded" for delivery (in this case, via BD.) The only potential difference I could see in this scenario if it is indeed the same "master" as before is whether a new "encode" has increased the resolution and clarity on the BD.
post #6 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_Ehr
Please forgive my possible ignorance, but my understanding is that a "transfer" is done in order to create a digital "master" which is subsequently "encoded" for delivery (in this case, via BD.) The only potential difference I could see in this scenario if it is indeed the same "master" as before is whether a new "encode" has increased the resolution and clarity on the BD.
In the parlance of our time, transfer=compressed encode from the digital master, whether that be VC-1, AVC, MPEG-2, etc. If the BD "encode" is new then all sorts of new things could have been introduced that can affect its video quality, be they good or bad.
post #7 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
The original negative of Casablanca, one of the greatest and most beloved films ever created, was not always treated with respect.

Rather, it was treated harshly. How harshly? More harshly than I hope you can imagine.

With wear and tear, and pieces missing, WB gathered the surviving elements and created a digital representation of the film, and initially released it on SD and HD.

It was glorious.

Now, finally making its way to Blu-ray, Casablanca arrives in that same quality master, with the earlier extras still intact, and with a new documentary on Jack Warner, the most recognized of the Brothers, on a separate disc.

Casablanca is back, looking as it should, and while I give it and its beautiful packaging an Extremely Highly Recommended, I do so with a single caveat.

I'm aware that there are many collectors who love receiving postcard sized reproductions of stills, small books, and in this case, a small wallet suitable of holding one's Letters of Transit, and this is all well.

What I do not like is that once the aforementioned packaging is opened, and the contents dealt with, that I have no easy way of shelving the discs themselves in a protected environment. I have the same problem with the Dirty Harry Collection.

A small cardboard folder, open at the sides does not do it for me. Dust is the enemy. To that end, I would request that within whatever packaging is created in the future, that the actual discs reside in a normal, sealable plastic Blu-ray holder.

RAH

I got yelled at by so many people because I gripped about how Criterion was packaging their Blu Rays. I don't need a standard Blu Ray case but when they release what is supposed to be a higher quality product why is it they choose to use a flimsy looking and OPEN top Bottom which wear faster looks worn and collects dust!

I would rather have a case that looks more appealing and has the best presentation then something rushed. The Criterion Cases are just not acceptable.
post #8 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

I'm really annoyed that they're milking the market with this bloated beast full of silly tchotchkes and a lackluster documentary, without offering a more stripped-down alternative, comparable to the HD-DVD release or previous SD release. I'm sure it will come eventually, but it irks me that I have to wait when they could easily release it right now.
post #9 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Also the container containing those two items the luggage thingy etc the little box that houed them was EMPTY! so I got everythign else loppby cards etc ... but not those little trinkets.
post #10 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel
Not to nit-pick, but "master" and "transfer" are two entirely different things. I too would interested in knowing if this is a direct port of the HD-DVD transfer or if Warner produced a new transfer for the BD release.
I think it's the same as the HD DVD.
post #11 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
I think it's the same as the HD DVD.
I would assume so as well Robert, but you know what they say about assuming. Does anyone know for sure?
post #12 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

I'm passing on the BD collector box until a more "standard" version comes available. My HD-DVD looks stunning on my PC, and I don't need the bloated packaging, despite the new documentary disc. I learned that lesson after the Blade Runner briefcase set (buying the DVD version, then the compact 5-disc BD version).
post #13 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

I'm so glad this finally was released on BD. It's been literally two years since the HD-DVD came out. Between this and The Adventures of Robin Hood, I finally feel caught up on the really interesting Warners HD-DVD exclusives.

Also, I too don't want all of the crazy packaging and inserts. What a waste. Didn't like having to buy them.

-R
post #14 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

So, there's no smaller regular packaging within the bigger box?

Hmmm. I may pass on this until the packaging is more reasonable. I don't mind the Warner digibooks - I even like them, actually - but this packaging seems excessive.
post #15 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Yeah, that package is quite excessive since there are no other BD alternative. I can wait for something slimmer.

And thanks, RAH for those "few words" (as usual)...

_Man_
post #16 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Gary Tooze did a comparison over at DVD Beaver, and reached the same conclusion as RAH. The movie file on the BD is the same size as on the HD DVD. Make of that what you will.

I have the HD DVD, and it's gorgeous.
post #17 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Gary Tooze did a comparison over at DVD Beaver, and reached the same conclusion as RAH. The movie file on the BD is the same size as on the HD DVD.
I'd say that's definitive proof for all but those people who are so worried about differences that they'd (just barely) accept it's the same only from the tech people at Warner.
post #18 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel
In the parlance of our time, transfer=compressed encode from the digital master, whether that be VC-1, AVC, MPEG-2, etc. If the BD "encode" is new then all sorts of new things could have been introduced that can affect its video quality, be they good or bad.

Transfer = going from film to some raw uncompressed digital format IE 2k, 4k, 8k, ETC.

Master = The cleaned up, color timed version of the above transfer.

Encode = The conversion of the above master into showable format, IE JPEG2000 (for digital cinema) VC-1, AVC, MPEG2 (for home viewing) 35mm film (for standard theatrical viewing). The last could also be referred to as "recording out to film".

Doug
post #19 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Transfer = going from film to some raw uncompressed digital format IE 2k, 4k, 8k, ETC.

Master = The cleaned up, color timed version of the above transfer.

Encode = The conversion of the above master into showable format, IE JPEG2000 (for digital cinema) VC-1, AVC, MPEG2 (for home viewing) 35mm film (for standard theatrical viewing). The last could also be referred to as "recording out to film".
You've been around long enough to know that "transfer" and "encode" are used interchangeably when applied to home video, hence my "in the parlance of our time" comment.
post #20 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
Transfer = going from film to some raw uncompressed digital format IE 2k, 4k, 8k, ETC.

Master = The cleaned up, color timed version of the above transfer.

Encode = The conversion of the above master into showable format, IE JPEG2000 (for digital cinema) VC-1, AVC, MPEG2 (for home viewing) 35mm film (for standard theatrical viewing). The last could also be referred to as "recording out to film".

Doug

Thanks, Doug. That was more or less my understanding as well. Either we're both right or both wrong.
post #21 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
Gary Tooze did a comparison over at DVD Beaver, and reached the same conclusion as RAH. The movie file on the BD is the same size as on the HD DVD. Make of that what you will.

I have the HD DVD, and it's gorgeous.
Indeed it is, and thanks for the info from DVD Beaver. I'd say that clinches it.
post #22 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

I'll be passing on this release, too, and waiting for a version without all the add-ons in the package. The film is all I am interested in, so there is no need to spend over $40 for this version.

I'm sure there will be another release soon. It will not cost Warner much to create another package with the same disc once they milk this release.
post #23 of 44
Thread Starter 

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Casablanca is 102 minutes in length - a relatively short film by modern standards. If data throughput was upped by 50% in the switch from HD to BD, I doubt that there would be any definable gain in image quality.
post #24 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel
You've been around long enough to know that "transfer" and "encode" are used interchangeably when applied to home video, hence my "in the parlance of our time" comment.

I have never taken a film to a telecine lab and had it refered to as "encoding", it is a transfer. Encoding is the process of taking the raw digital files or the master and converting them to a deliverable codec.

Doug
post #25 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Black and white compresses quite well, yes? Because of the limited palette, bitrates on HD DVD shouldn't have been a problem.
post #26 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Rudolph
Black and white compresses quite well, yes? Because of the limited palette, bitrates on HD DVD shouldn't have been a problem.

It's also pillerboxed with black bars on the side making for less picture detail to encode than than a 1.78:1 presentation would have.

Doug
post #27 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

You know, I'd never thought about that. Makes sense that an Academy Ratio film would need less compression due to the sidebars being constant.
post #28 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Just watched this BRD and like I stated earlier with the HD DVD, it's like watching this great film for the first time again. What a beautiful video presentation. It makes Bergman look hotter than the sun with her closeups.

As far as the packaging, Warner you need to do a better job because with this BRD release, you're not getting it done.





Crawdaddy
post #29 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
As far as the packaging, Warner you need to do a better job because with this BRD release, you're not getting it done.

Crawdaddy

That's what's putting me off this. The DVD package was enormous! I'll wait for a cheaper rerelease in a normal Blu-Ray package.
post #30 of 44

Re: A few words about...™ Casablanca -- in Blu-ray

I won't replace the HD DVD on this one until my player goes to that electronics jumkyard in the sky.
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