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Why is DLP so unpopular?

post #1 of 67
11/9/08 at 4:28pm
Thread Starter 
I've started browsing TVs and I'm a little surprised that projection TVs are quite unpopular. I've not seen any smaller than 60", and while those are half the price of LCD and Plasma, there's maybe three for sale compared to the walls of LCD and Plasma.

I've done a bit of searching and the comparisons between DLP and LCD / Plasma are all several years old -- and presumably totally outdated.

So what gives? Has the market spoken, and DLP is just inferior? Or should i consider a DLP projection for future TV?
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post #2 of 67
11/9/08 at 4:47pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

The market has spoken, they want flat screens. That's all you need to take from it.
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post #3 of 67
11/9/08 at 5:03pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

There's nothing wrong with DLP. As Zack said, thin is in. But rear projection is still a great option if you want a large screen at a great price. And you have the room. 73 inches are going for well under $2000. While I think rptv's will disappear altogether in a year or two, DLP may still survive in front projectors. BTW, I own two DLP's. A 52" Mitsubishi and a 65" Toshiba.
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post #4 of 67
11/9/08 at 5:06pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

What Zack said. It's strictly a coolness factor. A year ago, when I went looking to replace my 65" CRT, I ran into the same problem.

Quote:
DLP is just inferior?
Not for me. I ended up with a Samsung DLP RPTV, and I've been very happy with it. The model is no longer made, but I'm pretty sure there's a successor; look for something in the 72" range.
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post #5 of 67
11/9/08 at 8:01pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Where are good reviews and comparisons?

The obvious difference in the store was the DLP had much smaller viewing angle range. The LCDs & Plasmas looked good from way off the side, but the DLPs dropped off quickly.

We're looking for a new TV maybe early next year: RP DLP pricing is extremely attractive in the 60" range, but I'm wary given their minimal success these days.
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post #6 of 67
11/9/08 at 8:38pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Where are good reviews and comparisons?
I never found any. I had to do my own comparisons, and it wasn't easy finding places with RPTV demo models, at least not in my part of the world.
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post #7 of 67
11/10/08 at 8:08am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

DLP's do seem to be disappearing. I think Mitsubishi and Samsung are about the only two manufacturers still making them, and there are rumors Samsung will be discontinuing manufacturing next year.

I think part of the reason is that DLP RPTV cut into the sales of the more expensive and profitable flat screen plasma and LCD sets.

I upgraded to a Samsung 67-inch LED DLP TV less than two months ago, and I am extremely happy with the set. Black levels are outstanding, and the TV does much better in daytime viewing in our family room than my old Toshiba 56-inch CRT RPTV. Viewing angle has not been an issue -- we sit about 12 feet away. HDTV and BluRay look incredible on this set, and upconverted SD-DVD (via a Sony BD player) also looks very good.
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post #8 of 67
11/10/08 at 8:18am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
I think Mitsubishi and Samsung are about the only two manufacturers still making them
I can offer some anecdotal advice against Mitsubishi. I know two people who had terrible experience with Mits DLP RPTV's. Different models, but they both went through multiple bulbs in under two years. Both owners ended up chucking their sets for plasmas.

One of those owners was a brother of mine; the other was Parker Clack.
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post #9 of 67
11/10/08 at 9:56am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Ditto what everyone else said.

And I couldn't be happier with my Samsung DLP. Price to screen-size it could not be beat. It's 12 inches deeper than a "flat screen" so I have to put it on a table instead of hanging it on the wall. But, for me, that trade off was well worth the nearly 50% savings.

If they are not being made soon I should really stock up on bulbs... Though at the rate I watch about 2 bulbs should get me well over a decade of hi-def viewing.
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post #10 of 67
11/10/08 at 10:07am
Thread Starter 

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Thanks for the tips. Boy, for the price of a 50" LCD, I can buy a 60" DLP and have a $1000 left for new Receiver and Blu Ray player.

But, like the masses, my wife and I like the aesthetics of the flat panels.

I'll keep reading & learning and see what happens in the coming months with these sets.
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post #11 of 67
11/10/08 at 11:59am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

I hope to be getting a Samsung 61" - 72" LED DLP, after the first of the year. I want the bigger screen size. The LED means no bulbs to change and no color wheels to shatter, as some have done. Less energy consumption too.

I have no desire to hang a tv on the wall. Not the best place for them. Ideally, the center of the screen should be about eye level, while sitting down, except for front projectors.
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post #12 of 67
11/10/08 at 3:21pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
I hope to be getting a Samsung 61" - 72" LED DLP, after the first of the year. I want the bigger screen size. The LED means no bulbs to change and no color wheels to shatter, as some have done. Less energy consumption too.

No need to replace bulbs and no color wheel (and, hence, no rainbow effect) were items that attracted me to the Samsung LED DLP's, too. FYI, they do not make a 72-inch set -- only 61" and 67".

Hanging the set on the wall was not a concern here, either. Our TV sits on the open end of our family room, so there is no wall to hang it on. Anyway, the 37" LCD in our bedroom is not mounted on a wall, either. It's sitting on an old microwave stand, which gets it high enough to see laying in bed.
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post #13 of 67
11/10/08 at 3:43pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield
FYI, they do not make a 72-inch set -- only 61" and 67".
Now, FYI....... Amazon.com: Samsung HL72A650 72-Inch 1080p Slim DLP HDTV: Audio & Video
Enjoy!
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post #14 of 67
11/10/08 at 6:09pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
I have no desire to hang a tv on the wall. Not the best place for them. Ideally, the center of the screen should be about eye level, while sitting down, except for front projectors.
Which is where a TV on the wall would be hung. What's the difference between wall and stand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield
No need to replace bulbs and no color wheel (and, hence, no rainbow effect) were items that attracted me to the Samsung LED DLP's, too. FYI, they do not make a 72-inch set -- only 61" and 67".
Are these three DLP chip systems? Aren't you trading rainbows for alignment problems?
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post #15 of 67
11/10/08 at 7:01pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Which is where a TV on the wall would be hung. What's the difference between wall and stand?
Usually people hang them much higher, like above a fireplace........ If you're going to hang it the same height as the stand, why bother hanging it? Then you need the wall mount, and run wires through the wall to hide them. You'd still need a stand or rack for the A/V gear anyway. Hanging on a wall just doesn't make sense to me. But that's just me........ Your money and your house, so put it where you want it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Are these three DLP chip systems? Aren't you trading rainbows for alignment problems?
Not sure. Gregg can probably answer that. But I prefer not having to change bulb. Don't want to chance a squeaky color wheel or other noise from a spinning wheel. And as I said before..........less power consumption with LED.
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post #16 of 67
11/10/08 at 7:12pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Are these three DLP chip systems? Aren't you trading rainbows for alignment problems?

These are single chip DLP sets. They use three high-powered LED's to energize the DLP chip. The red-blue-green LED's fire in sequence thus eliminating both the color wheel and the lamp of a traditional DLP RPTV.

By the way, I've heard that the LED array provides the equivalent of about a 15x color wheel ... so RBE is also virtually nonexistent as well on these sets.

It beats me as to why these sets aren't more popular ...

Personally, I'm more into front projection ... but I still prefer DLP due to the fact that there are never any convergence issues and dust blobs are rarely a problem. And in spite of the advances in contrast ratios in LCD projectors, DLP can still be "good enough" in that area without having to resort to an iris.
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post #17 of 67
11/11/08 at 5:00am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Moxley
I think the Amazon description of this set is in error. The Samsung 650 Series are traditional bulb DLP sets, while the 750 Series are the LED DLP. The 750 Series comes in 61" and 67".
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post #18 of 67
11/11/08 at 6:21am
Thread Starter 

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus
These are single chip DLP sets. They use three high-powered LED's to energize the DLP chip. The red-blue-green LED's fire in sequence thus eliminating both the color wheel and the lamp of a traditional DLP RPTV
How does this eliminate rainbows? You've still got time-sequential coloring, which is the cause of rainbows; not the color disk per se. Is LED timing faster, as with the newer, faster color wheels?
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post #19 of 67
11/11/08 at 6:37am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
How does this eliminate rainbows? You've still got time-sequential coloring, which is the cause of rainbows; not the color disk per se. Is LED timing faster, as with the newer, faster color wheels?

Dave,

About 99% of the population is unable to detect "rainbows" once the color wheel gets to a 5x speed. (That's five times the frame rate.)

The LED's in these new sets fire so fast they provide the equivalent speed of about a 15x color wheel. It would be virtually impossible for the naked eye to perceive the individual colors at a speed that high.
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post #20 of 67
11/11/08 at 6:57am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

It says on Samsung's site that it uses Cinema Smooth light engine, but can't find anywhere on the site that tells if that is LED bulb or traditional bulb. I'll take your word for it. You probably know more about these than I do.
Why doesn't someone tell Amazon their info is wrong.................?
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post #21 of 67
11/11/08 at 10:01am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Ed,

If you read the first page of the 750 Series owners threads at AVS Forum, you will see specific mentioning of the 650 Series being a bulb DLP vs. LED DLP for the 750 Series.
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post #22 of 67
11/11/08 at 11:33am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
How does this eliminate rainbows? You've still got time-sequential coloring, which is the cause of rainbows; not the color disk per se. Is LED timing faster, as with the newer, faster color wheels?

When it comes to something like this, it's always about humanly perceivable/appreciable thresholds, not about absolutes. Actually, that's far far more often the case than we tend to realize.

Anyway, if the LEDs fire at the equiv of a 15x color wheel, I guess that should be good enough -- or at least waaay better than typical color wheel implementations. Just don't try to use the TV for any serious scientific experiments (or whatever other unintended "fun projects" ) that would bump up against the limits of the tech.

_Man_
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post #23 of 67
11/11/08 at 11:33am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield
Ed,

If you read the first page of the 750 Series owners threads at AVS Forum, you will see specific mentioning of the 650 Series being a bulb DLP vs. LED DLP for the 750 Series.
I have not read anything at AVS forums in years. I don't like the place. I don't like the attitude of too many of the people there. I'm a member, but just don't go there anymore.
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post #24 of 67
11/11/08 at 12:12pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

The popularity of the flatscreens over RP-based DLP/LCOS sets among retailers is mainly due to:

1. profit margin
2. less per-unit storage space needed for flatscreens vs. RP sets.

Sounds like a no-brainer if you're a retailer (online or b&m).

The job of marketing from the manufacturers is to make the consumer think that flatscreens are the way to go (if you want to hang one on the wall), or want better viewing angles (personally, I wanted better viewing angles over any of the RP-based models, so I went plasma 18 months ago).

The main initial purchasing decision advantage for RP-based set is mainly cost (larger surface area for dollar spent) over the flatscreens. (Another benefit is that replacing the bulbs when they go bad will prolong the cost of RP-based sets as well in terms of service, over having to buy a new set when the flatscreen set dies).
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post #25 of 67
11/11/08 at 12:33pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
(Another benefit is that replacing the bulbs when they go bad will prolong the cost of RP-based sets as well in terms of service, over having to buy a new set when the flatscreen set dies).

The LED-based sets from Samsung (and probably also the new laser ones from Mits) no longer require regular bulb changes either -- though they do cost more (at about the cost of one bulb change or so in the case of Samsung's LED models). Still, the LED engines used right now are rated to last not quite as long as the current plasma tech though they should last plenty long enough for most people's usage, ie. should easily last 10 years (or much more) me thinks. I'd think other parts of these TVs might well malfunction or completely die by the time the LED engine (or the plasma phosphors or LCD backlight) wears out -- or you'd be more than ready to relegate the set to parttime/secondary duty in favor of something newer and (likely much) better by then.

_Man_
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post #26 of 67
11/13/08 at 4:29pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

I'll echo some of the previous comments. I have a 2005 Samsung DLP RPTV and a 2007 Optoma DLP front projector. Both have performed 5x5. The Optoma needed a power supply replacement under warranty.

With regards the "rainbows". I can only see them if I personally move my head about while viewing.

I prefer the DLP since it gives better blacks and contrast, as well as clarity for rapidly moving objects on screen. As a previous CRT FP owner, I see all too well the shortcomings of the LCD sets.

Bulbs are expensive. If I had waited another couple of years I would have gone LED. But the cheapest sets you can own are the ones you already have.

Try Craigslist for a used Samsung DLP RPTV and budget $300 for a new bulb.
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post #27 of 67
11/14/08 at 1:40pm

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

RE: bulb costs, I would add though that Samsung bulbs seem to cost less over time for each model. They may start out at ~$300 or so, but they seem to end up costing more like ~$150 after a few years. Of course, there are no guarantees about bulb costs in the future (nor the reliability of the color wheel, which seems quite vulnerable to wear-and-tear), so LED is most likely the best way to go w/ current Samsung RPTVs (unless you manage to find some incredible deal on a bulb-based one).

And no, I would not recommend buying a used bulb-based DLP RPTV -- you should factor in the likelihood of the color wheel needing replacement, if you buy one.

_Man_
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post #28 of 67
11/15/08 at 7:58am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

This is something I have been going over for a while. There are only a few things that I'm unsure about. The Samsung HL61A750 only have an aspect ratio of 10,000:1, while their LCD line starts at 30,000:1 and continues to increase, not to mention Plasmas are in the 1,000,000:1 range. What does this all mean, and how does it affect things? It is more or less this one question I have before I am SOLD on buying the 61" 750 DLP.
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post #29 of 67
11/15/08 at 10:15am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

Quote:
not to mention Plasmas are in the 1,000,000:1 range

They might as also say "all purchasers will have free health insurance and life time prescription coverage". there is no such thing as 1m:1.

Bottom line: you cant believe the specified #s.
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post #30 of 67
11/15/08 at 10:19am

Re: Why is DLP so unpopular?

...interesting. So what you would say is that I am still making the right move by purchasing a DLP instead of an LCD. I was originally thinking about a Samsung LN52A650, but now...i'm thinking more about purchasing a Samsung HL61A750. HUGE price difference if you consider the fact that I'm getting 61" instead of 52".
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