Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Other Diversions › After Hours Lounge › MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

post #1 of 270
10/20/08 at 11:29am
Thread Starter 
Since the MLB Playoff thread has been clogged with a discussion about the Sox' use of Jason Varitek in the ALCS, I figured it might be more appropriate to shift that and other discussions into a Hot Stove thread and get a head start even if the WS hasn't started.

Varitek is going to be one tough, thorny issue for the Red Sox to deal with this post-season. His work with the pitching staff and calling games and field leadership are SO valued...yet his offensive production seems to have fallen off the chart. Also, Theo Epstein HAS to be looking at what happened to Jorge Posada this season right after the Yankees locked their own aging backstop into a four-year contract.

Anyway...I know I'm having a hard time formulating my own opinion as to which way the team should go. But I know how completely lost he looked at the plate ALL SEASON for the Red Sox and I would be mighty uncomfortable at the prospect of seeing that again ALL NEXT SEASON. It's sad...but that's the game. Ask Bernie Williams.

I suppose the Sox could DH Ortiz for the catcher's spot and have the pitchers bat!
Reply
post #2 of 270
10/20/08 at 11:56am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

It really does suck that his bat is poor because the guy is one hard worker and (from what you hear) one hell of a team mate. His dedication (to the Sox) is something you don't see anymore.

Actually, I've had the opportunity to see several games in Tampa (between '03 - '06) and have stayed at the hotel that the ballplayers stay at...and it's even amazing to see Varitek after the game (in the hotel bar); while the other team mates are whooping it up, he sits quietly with his thoughts. You know he's going over what happened in the game and what he's going to change for the next game.

Hell, I was there when the Sox clinched the wild card in '04 and Tek sat alone, still with his game face on. It's amazing what this guy brings to the team even though his bat doesn't. You can tell that he carries the weight of management on his shoulders when he hits the field.

As fans, we just see a smaller part of what goes on. As much as I would like to see a great bat in the rotation, I just don't know how I'd feel about losing this guy.
Reply
post #3 of 270
10/20/08 at 12:30pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

I also wonder if Sox management has thoughts about not bringing Wake back.

Personally, I hope they do. Even though he has developed some back problems over the past couple of years, I think he still has high value and is another positive, veteran presence in the clubhouse.

FWIW, I also think Mussina would be crazy to call it quits after this year. But all reports seem to indicate that he will announce his retirement near the end of this month. It's tough for these guys to go out on a high note. And if that's what he decides to do, I'll respect it. But I think he'll always wonder what might-have-been if he had gone another year or two.
Reply
post #4 of 270
10/20/08 at 1:26pm

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

I can't see the Sox cutting Wakefield loose until he's not a viable fifth starter any more, even if that means he's pitching until he's fifty. For a team like the Red Sox, $4M/year for a guy who gives you 180-odd innings of league-average pitching is kind of a no-brainer. With any luck, Buchholz or Masterson will be good enough to start post-season games next year, so Wakefield can have the long-man job in October.

Looking at Varitek's numbers, it looks like he dropped off a pretty big cliff after '04, one rebound to league-average notwithstanding. Not uncommon for an aging catcher at all, and there are seldom sustained rebounds from that drop-off. I suspect there will be some very delicate negotiations with him over the winter: The impression I get is that he doesn't want to leave, and the team doesn't want him to leave, but they really can't carry his bat any more. Ideally, he'd get a 2/$10-12M deal with the understanding that he'll be splitting time more evenly with Kottaras or whoever Theo can pick up, and that the team would like him to remain with the organization as a coach afterward.

Some team, though, will offer him 3/$20M, and if it's a team with a talented but raw pitching staff, it might even seem like a good idea.
Reply
post #5 of 270
10/20/08 at 2:02pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

That sounds like a pretty good scenario, Jason. And even if another team offered him a bit more (but who else could carry his bat in their line-up?) I bet he'd choose to stay in Boston.

They could even consider making him a player/coach...if that would be too anyone's advantage to do so.

It's been such a long time since there's been a player/manager in the majors (Pete Rose)...it would be kinda cool to have something like that again.

EDIT** Speak of the devil. Epstein speaks on the Varitek issue.

And Mike Lowell's surgery is called a "success." He's expected at full strength in the spring.
Reply
post #6 of 270
10/21/08 at 8:53am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Several L.A. media outlets are reporting on an article in The Boston Globe, stating Derek Lowe (who will be a free agent) wants to return to the Red Sox.
Reply
post #7 of 270
10/21/08 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

He's already had enough of Manny!

I think Lowe might be a good investment if he's not demanding too much. He will turn 36 next season.

Some would argue the Sox never should have let him go.
Reply
post #8 of 270
10/21/08 at 1:05pm

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Nah, I've said from day one that Manny's stay in LA will be temporary. He'll (i.e. Manny) probably end up in NY.
Reply
post #9 of 270
10/22/08 at 8:24am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Lowe can want to return to Boston all he wants, but the talk after '04 was that the GM had instructions from ownership not to pursue resigning him very hard after Lowe showed up at a team function with his girlfriend rather than his wife (John Henry is apparently a stickler about such things), and I don't know if that would still be an issue. That sort of thing could impact the Varitek situation, if the rumors are true.

Also, I don't know why people keep saying Manny will wind up in New York; the Yankees have got a surplus of outfielders that need occasional DHing now, and the Mets have to look at him as potentially being Moises Alou v2.0.
Reply
post #10 of 270
10/22/08 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

A lot of the Manny-in-NY talk comes from Omar Minaya having a man-crush on Manny. That, I suppose, and his Washington Heights upbringing and the fact that there is money in NY...lots of money.

I hadn't heard any of that stuff about Lowe. Interesting.
Reply
post #11 of 270
10/22/08 at 11:16am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

I figured Girardi would want to take Manny away from Torre just for spite

Also, putting Manny in left and getting Damon in center might not be a bad thing either - they both know how to play the outfield together.
Reply
post #12 of 270
10/22/08 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Putting Damon full-time in centerfield would be great for the rest of baseball!
Reply
post #13 of 270
10/22/08 at 12:43pm

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Also, putting Manny in left and getting Damon in center might not be a bad thing either - they both know how to play the outfield together.
It would certainly be an interesting experiment in how much a team could sacrifice defense and still compete - Manny in right field (the smaller field in Yankee Stadium), Damon and his noodle arm in center, Matsui and his rapidly deteriorating knees in left, Derek "past a diving" Jeter at short, Jorge Posada behind the plate... Does A-Rod become the best defender on the team by default, especially if Cano doesn't bounce back to what he was before signing his big contract?

There's apparently a rumor going around about the Yankees looking to trade Matsui to SF for Aaron Rowand, which I think would be kind of a push, especially since there's apparently a decent CF or two in the Yankees system about a year away. The Giants would, of course, manage to get even older with such a trade, but it would give them more flexibility.
Reply
post #14 of 270
10/22/08 at 1:10pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
Derek "past a diving" Jeter at short...

Makes me laugh every time, Jason.
Reply
post #15 of 270
10/30/08 at 10:03am
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Some interesting tidbits in today's New York Post (and, subsequently, on Wikipedia):

Next year's world Series will begin on October 28th and end--at the earliest--on November 5th. It could possibly end in the second week of November!

An article in the Post blames that on the second World Baseball Classic. But I cannot find out how the two interact. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

From wiki:

Quote:
The regular season, for which all teams' schedules were announced on September 17, 2008 in a historic first, will end on October 4 of the same year. The postseason is scheduled to begin three days later with the Division Series. The 2009 World Series will begin on October 28, and will end no later than November 5 (barring postponements due to weather), marking the second time the season will be completed in November; the only other time was in 2001, that due to the delaying of the end of that season because of the September 11 attacks. Homefield advantage for the Series will be decided at the All-Star Game on July 14 at Busch Stadium in St. Louis, Missouri. In addition, the annual Civil Rights Game will become a regular season game, scheduled for June 20 at Great American Ball Park in Cincinnati, Ohio when the host Cincinnati Reds play the Chicago White Sox in an interleague game.


An annual Civil Rights game?!?

=================

I cannot imagine why there's all this talk about doing away with homefield advantage for the WS and moving the contest to a neutral site. We might as well install instant replay and not require pitchers to bat!

Thank goodness for Joe Maddon of the BayRays: "I think each town should be rewarded, the fan base, the home team fan base. Growing up such a baseball fan as myself to think that these games (2008 WS) would have been moved away would have been a bad thought. This is the way it is, man. I grew up in it (in PA) so you've got to do it. it would be better if the Eagles and Bucs would take the field, but we're fine with it. If the game goes on, you won't hear one bit of crying from us."

And, Charlie Manuel of the Phillies expressed the same sentiments when asked about the idea.

Personally, I just don't get it. It's r-a-i-n. Rain happens. The series got played. The easy solution would have been to NOT start game 5 when they new the bad weather was coming.

=====================

And, George King of the NY Post reports the Yanks will make a serious push for Manny Ramirez to play right field next year.
Reply
post #16 of 270
10/30/08 at 10:10am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

The WBC will be taking place throughout March, so spring training will be extended a little, and the actual season won't be starting until April 5th, about a week later than it has started in recent years. As a result, everything is pushed forward a week.

Fine with me - I like the WBC, so there's potentially eight months of exciting baseball next year. And the Red Sox will be home on my birthday (2 October), which is not always something I can predict.
Reply
post #17 of 270
10/30/08 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Thanks, Jason.

The WBC disinterests me. So, I'm less-than-thrilled about the prospects.

If it takes place in March (and the season startes April 5th), it sounds like spring training will be minimalistic. That's not necessarily a good thing--especially for those players who DON'T play in the classic (lack of work & conditioning) or for those who DO play in the classic (less time with their "real" team).

I dunno. Six months of baseball is enough in my book.
Reply
post #18 of 270
10/30/08 at 11:51am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Well, that's why the delay - the WBC seems to be running the 5-23 March, so the full teams will have two weeks after that, with the rest of the teams practicing throughout.

I, for one, am not going to complain about too much of a good thing.
Reply
post #19 of 270
10/30/08 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

You don't think the Red Sox are really serious about going after Texiera, do you?
Reply
post #20 of 270
10/30/08 at 1:54pm

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

I imagine they're looking at that as an option, especially if Epstein thinks this might be a good opportunity to sell high on Youkilis. His OBP stayed the same even though he gained 25 points of batting average, and his season's power was a surprise. If the team figures it's a fluke rather than a new level of performance and he might fetch a decent catcher, I could see them going that direction and signing Teixiera.

(And that is the sort of multi-step process Epstein tends to go for)

If not, it certainly doesn't hurt anyone for anyone to think that's what the Sox are doing so that the Yankees or someone else has to pay a little more.
Reply
post #21 of 270
10/30/08 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Wow. I figure Youkilis to be the new Trot Nixon: a fan favorite who will be with the team until his numbers make his presence untenable.
Reply
post #22 of 270
10/30/08 at 8:39pm

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

I saw John Smoltz at an IHOP last night, and I was so tempted to ask him how his shoulder feels, and if he thought he would be able to come back, but I just respected his privacy, while my group went whole hog on the all-you-can-eat pancake special.
Reply
post #23 of 270
10/30/08 at 8:46pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun
I saw John Smoltz at an IHOP last night, and I was so tempted to ask him how his shoulder feels, and if he thought he would be able to come back, but I just respected his privacy, while my group went whole hog on the all-you-can-eat pancake special.

That is too cool, Patrick!

I was at a local IHOP the other day. I was tempted by the pancake deal...but I love the Colorado Omelet.

I did NOT see any major leaguers, either.
Reply
post #24 of 270
10/31/08 at 7:37am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I figure Youkilis to be the new Trot Nixon: a fan favorite who will be with the team until his numbers make his presence untenable.
This is the front office that traded Nomar, so I don't know that they'll feel particularly beholden to that sort of thing. Anyway, I don't necessarily think a Youk trade is likely, just that he's more tradeable than Lowell if the Sox are going after Teixiera.
Reply
post #25 of 270
10/31/08 at 1:38pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

To me, Youk is as solid as they come--Gold Glove in the field, one of the best eyes at the plate in the AL (as well as clutch) and a guy who can do so many things for his club (play between first and third base, bat pretty near ANYWHERE in a line-up, etc.) AND my understanding is he's a solid clubhouse guy. And, he's young.

If they ever did get rid of him, I'm sure they'd come to regret it--and not too far down the road, at that!

What's your thinking that he's more tradeable then Lowell?

And, I guess that's why I don't see why they'd upset the apple cart to make a play for Texeira. It ain't broke. It don't need fixin'.
Reply
post #26 of 270
10/31/08 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

BTW, I was out traveling today and saw a TV screen (ESPN) from a distance saying that Boras is shopping Varitek to Detroit. Didn't hear any of the accompanying audio.

And, I see the Red Sox have picked up Wakefield's option for next year. That makes all the sense in the world.
Reply
post #27 of 270
10/31/08 at 6:09pm

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
(Long list of why he likes Youkilis)

What's your thinking that he's more tradeable then Lowell?
All that you said, plus he's six years younger, paid less, under club control for longer, and hasn't just had reconstructive surgery on his knee. If I had a catcher and were looking to extract a big league corner infielder, I'd certainly ask about Youk first.
Reply
post #28 of 270
10/31/08 at 6:14pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Oh. Gotcha.

I thought you meant it would be better from the Sox' point-of-view to trade him. My bad.

I can be kinda thick sometimes (but don't tell my wife!)
Reply
post #29 of 270
10/31/08 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

Tim Kurkjian's Top Ten Hot Stove stories of this off-season...
Reply
post #30 of 270
11/3/08 at 11:11am

Re: MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009

I think some people think Manny will go to the Yankees, so he can really stick it to the Red Sox. Isn't this the same reason why Wade Boggs signed with the Yankees after leaving the Sox?
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: After Hours Lounge
Home Theater Forum › Home Theater Forum › Other Diversions › After Hours Lounge › MLB Hot Stove 2008-2009