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post #31 of 49
10/21/08 at 8:36am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Thanks for the review Kevin.

And just to point out for those that are unsure, the Legacy edition IS remastered and is a noticeable visual improvement over the Masterpiece Collection. Save for the tinting on the title sequence (which is of minor consequence to me), this is the best this film has ever looked on home video. Except for those who have a major issue with the new soundtrack, I can't imagine any fan of the film not wanting to upgrade to this edition.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Vertigo (Universal Legacy Series)
post #32 of 49
10/22/08 at 6:47am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K
I still cannot see why Universal would not release the movies from the set individually. Then, all of us (even "non-true" Hitchcock fans) could have had a copy of Vertigo with the mono soundtrack (albeit with improper credits).

They actually have made the titles available individually. If I'm not mistaken, the only one still outstanding is The Birds.
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post #33 of 49
10/22/08 at 7:57am
Thread Starter 

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

I'd love to know if the Masterpiece Collection Vertigo is in fact available as an individual purchase. It had been my understanding that it was a title that was only available as part of the set, even if some of the other titles were made available on their own.
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post #34 of 49
10/22/08 at 8:22am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin EK
I'd love to know if the Masterpiece Collection Vertigo is in fact available as an individual purchase. It had been my understanding that it was a title that was only available as part of the set, even if some of the other titles were made available on their own.
The SE you reviewed is the first standalone R1 release of Vertigo enhanced for 16:9. The Masterpiece Collection disc was never released separately. I never understood why, though, since it was not one of the titles like "The Birds" or "Psycho" that had its supplements sharing space on the bonus disc and would not have to have been re-authored.

Regards,
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post #35 of 49
10/22/08 at 8:23am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin EK
I'd love to know if the Masterpiece Collection Vertigo is in fact available as an individual purchase. It had been my understanding that it was a title that was only available as part of the set, even if some of the other titles were made available on their own.

I don't think so because I've been looking for an anamorphic replacement for my non-anamorphic original copy for awhile, and the only thing I ever found individually was another nonanamorphic release prior to this new remaster. I had bought all of the Universal-Hitchcocks before the Masterpiece Collection was issued, and I was not interested in buying them again even for the upgrades to picture quality which most reviews said the discs in the Masterpiece Collection boasted.

The only reason I've held off on these three Legacy releases is my hope that they'll be the first Hitchcocks released on Blu-ray. No announcements on that, unfortunately.
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post #36 of 49
10/22/08 at 1:57pm
Thread Starter 

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Thanks guys. I was starting to think I had completely missed something. The whole basis for my recommendation starts with the fact that I couldn't find an anamorphic copy of the film available as an individual purchase. (Not counting finding one in the UK and importing it!)
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post #37 of 49
10/22/08 at 3:24pm

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMor
Thanks for the review Kevin.

And just to point out for those that are unsure, the Legacy edition IS remastered and is a noticeable visual improvement over the Masterpiece Collection. Save for the tinting on the title sequence (which is of minor consequence to me), this is the best this film has ever looked on home video. Except for those who have a major issue with the new soundtrack, I can't imagine any fan of the film not wanting to upgrade to this edition.

No. It is the same master as the Masterpiece Edition given, slightly tweaked. Calling it a remaster over the Masterpiece edition is incorrect.

The differences between the Masterpiece and legacy editions of Rear Window are noticeable. Vertigo differences are quite minor.

This is just another shot at taking some sucker's cash before moving to Blu-Ray.
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post #38 of 49
10/22/08 at 6:53pm

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyFeldman
Appreciation to Robert Harris for answering, although I'm not sure why he thinks an optical track on a print is fifth generation, or even if somehow it was fifth generation, why an optical track on a print could not be spruced up. I understand there's the original recording (first generation), then the mix (I suppose that's another generation), then the mag track, then the optical, so that's four, but about three years ago I was lucky enough to be shown a 35mm Technicolor print of Vertigo and the optical track sounded great, and the color was pretty amazing.

1. Original magnetic recordings
2. Individually mixed elements
3. Three track DME
4. Optical soundtrack negative
5. 35mm print


As all of this was analogue, the loss of information and frequency was huge in comparison to what can be accomplished today. A simple comparison of the stereo music track for the main title sequence compared to that on the old DVD (mono) is night and day, with a major loss in high frequency information and overall sonic detail.

A 1950s optical track can sound quite smooth and appropriate when played back on suitable equipment, and without direct comparison to original elements. As to sprucing up, quite like 4k down-rezzed to 2k, once information is gone... it's gone.

RAH
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post #39 of 49
10/23/08 at 6:48am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
A 1950s optical track can sound quite smooth and appropriate when played back on suitable equipment, and without direct comparison to original elements. As to sprucing up, quite like 4k down-rezzed to 2k, once information is gone... it's gone.

RAH

However, for those of us with tin ears (I guess) who prefer the original mono, our problem (at least, my problem) with the Masterpiece Collection track was the snap, crackle, pop (heard mostly over the opening credits) and the crackly distortion that fell at the end of each spoken syllable during the first reel of the film. Without knowing anything about it, it seems to me Universal could have done something to clean this up. If nothing else, couldn't they have just ported the LD sound track?

All of this is irrelevant to this thread since the discussion revolves around the new Legacy edition which does not include Hitchcock's sound track in any condition.

Personally, I find it disheartening that a movie as important as Vertigo is so hard to see as in its original version... even if that version is not in the condition it was in 1958. The reluctance on Universal's part to make the original track available (and including it on only one of their three releases... and that one as only part of an expensive boxed-set... does warrant the word reluctance) is frustrating. One can only hope that an eventual Blu-Ray release will be different. (Not to mention any future theatrical distribution).
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post #40 of 49
10/23/08 at 10:03am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Did Rear Window require sourcing from a 35mm print's optical track for the restoration?
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post #41 of 49
10/23/08 at 10:09am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McCart
Did Rear Window require sourcing from a 35mm print's optical track for the restoration?
I did not restore "Rear Window", but I do read articles from Salon.com:
Quote:
...How difficult was the sound restoration? Harris said, "Oh boy! As in 'Porgy and Bess,' we had plenty o' nothin'." The elements that had been saved -- including the 35 mm optical track negative, which was used to print the track to 389 release prints in 1954, as well as other prints "into the early '70s" -- turned out to be "junk." All Harris and Katz had to go on "were used 35 mm prints."

What was worse, said Harris, "We found that the track negative made in '54 had been produced defectively. You've seen 35 mm tracks ... two clear impulses against black. On 'Rear Window,' the inboard impulse was out of focus and narrow, which acted to mute and distort the sound. Therefore, all of the sound was taken from the outboard impulse of a number of different prints, all of which had wear. The fact that sound has survived, even after being digitized and cleaned, is a tribute to the superb recording that was done by Paramount in 1954. Remember this was a Paramount -- not a Universal -- production." (Universal is re-releasing the film under the aegis of USA Films.)...
Also note: Even for the "Vertigo" restoration remix, the dialog was sourced from an optical track.
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post #42 of 49
10/23/08 at 10:14am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamMcK
...The reluctance on Universal's part to make the original track available (and including it on only one of their three releases... and that one as only part of an expensive boxed-set... does warrant the word reluctance) is frustrating. One can only hope that an eventual Blu-Ray release will be different. (Not to mention any future theatrical distribution).
Has Universal confirmed that they did not intend to make the original mono track available and that this was not a gaffe or are we just projecting "reluctance" in the face of their reticence?

Regards,
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post #43 of 49
10/23/08 at 11:25am

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin EK
John Carter, thank you for the submission. When I get home from the day job and can concentrate on that, I'll take a listen.
Did you get to compare the sound in the YouTube clip with the 2.0 track on the DVD yet?

YouTube - Vertigo - mono opening scene
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post #44 of 49
10/23/08 at 12:51pm

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden
Has Universal confirmed that they did not intend to make the original mono track available and that this was not a gaffe or are we just projecting "reluctance" in the face of their reticence?

Regards,

Well, if it turns out it was a mere gaffe I'll replace the word reluctance with carelessness: either way, it's damn frustrating.
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post #45 of 49
10/23/08 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Carter, I can confirm that the sound on the YouTube clip is not the same sound as is on the Legacy DVD.

But I thought I had already acknowledged that with the response I posted from Mr. Harris.

I have not revised the review yet, partly due to the fact that the discussion here has clarified matters, and partly due to the fact that the website administrators are here in LA for the meet and can't edit the "Highly Recommended" tab yet.

I'll add that while it may be possible to get Universal to do a revision of the title for future sales, as well as for Blu-ray, I doubt you will see any further restoration. I believe it should be a simple matter to include the original mono track, and I don't understand why it wasn't on this release. But at the same time, I don't believe Universal will be doing any work on that track.

I'm interested in any feedback anyone gets from Universal about this issue.

And I'll adjust the review over this weekend.
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post #46 of 49
10/31/08 at 3:17pm

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

I'll probably buy this set for the new bonus features. One minor quibble: Instead of "The Case of Mr. Pelham" episode from Alfred Hitchcock Presents they should have included the "Lamb To The Slaughter" episode instead (which ended up on a different disc). I figured since that show and Vertigo both feature Barbara Bel Geddes. It's probably just the "Felix Unger" in me that wanted to keep the release neat.
Bill
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post #47 of 49
10/31/08 at 5:32pm
Thread Starter 

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Vertigo Special Edition - Highly Recommended

Bill, you're right about the casting. But I think the people that put the Legacy editions together probably thought that "Pelham" was a better match for the plot. I'll get on Psycho and Rear Window after I get another couple of reviews under the belt.
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post #48 of 49
12/12/09 at 3:17pm
Does the DVD from 2005 have the original mono track on it? I just bought this newer one and of course discovered right away something was amiss with the supposed mono track as the music for the main title was stereo.  As for someone being "asleep at the switch", as someone who worked in that world for some time I can tell you that it does happen and while irritating, this does not surprise me. People see an audio file or track in inventory labled as 2.0 mono or whatever and they pull it. No sense of what it's origins are, etc...This is the state of where things can go when a brain is removed from the process.."we'll just let the vendor do it! " ... I speak from 18 years experience in that business. Too bad...
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post #49 of 49
12/13/09 at 1:54am
The 2005 DVD does have the mono track.

This goof happens all the time in the word of kung fu movies on dvd.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Vertigo (Universal Legacy Series)
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