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GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

post #1 of 75
10/19/08 at 10:38pm
Thread Starter 
Now that all the Bond films are coming out on blu-ray (and apparently some color-timing mistakes being fixed as well), I'm wondering if they're going to fix one of the few, but nevertheless glaring mistakes from their Goldfinger transfer- namely, the missing frames at the 1:17:10 mark right after oddjob deliberately misses the turn to the airport.

It has been determined that the frames are only missing on the DVD releases of the film, NOT on older LD (such as the Criterion) and VHS releases.

It's an obvious jump-cut and if it's noticeable in SD, it's going to be even more noticeable in HD on a huge screen.

Will they bother to go back and fix this for the blu-ray release? It will require more work than just adjusting the color from the existing scan since they would have to retrieve the missing frames from another print/master, and I'm curious as to whether or not they're willing to go to the trouble........
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Goldfinger [Blu-ray]
James Bond Blu-ray Collection Three-Pack, Vol. 3 (Moonraker/ The World is Not...
post #2 of 75
10/21/08 at 5:04am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

You might ask at this point whether it is coming out any time soon, period. I asked this when Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Thunderball were first announced as I thought it very poor that this title was conspicuously missing and no one had anything to add. There has been no announcement that I've heard to date. So, I wouldn't hold my breath friend. One can only hope, maybe, 2009?
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post #3 of 75
10/21/08 at 6:00am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

I am wondering whether the huge color problem with the title
sequence of "Live and Let Die" will be corrected. Something
tells me no.
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post #4 of 75
10/21/08 at 7:02am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

According to this post, the color has been corrected:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3447657-post30.html
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post #5 of 75
10/21/08 at 7:11am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

I'll wager Goldfinger comes out when the current Bond movie is released on BD this spring. I'll also wager that the missing frames are gone for good from home video. Not that they couldn't be fixed, just that they won't be.

-R
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post #6 of 75
10/21/08 at 8:24am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles_Y
You might ask at this point whether it is coming out any time soon, period. I asked this when Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Thunderball were first announced as I thought it very poor that this title was conspicuously missing and no one had anything to add. There has been no announcement that I've heard to date. So, I wouldn't hold my breath friend. One can only hope, maybe, 2009?
I'd think they'd definitely release another batch of films to coincide with Quantum of Solace's DVD release. They still have 14 titles to go. 3 more Connerys, 5 mo(o)re Moores, the only Lazenby, both Daltons, and 3 other Brosnans. They're currently going at a rate of 6 titles per release. That may need to be shaken up.

Since Goldfinger is one of the more popular titles, would it be a safe bet that it'll be released with some of the less popular films (OHMSS? The Daltons? The bad Moore films?)?
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post #7 of 75
10/21/08 at 11:32am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray H
They're currently going at a rate of 6 titles per release. That may need to be shaken up.
Not "stirred"! ;-)

"Goldfinger" is my fave.
Remember going to see it at the theater w/my dad, back-in-the-day.

Thought the last SD DVD release looked & sounded (DTS) pretty good.
Solid enough presentation too bring back fond memories.

If it can be improved upon...
GREAT!!!

(already traded it in; in anticipation of this HD release)
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post #8 of 75
10/21/08 at 2:57pm
Thread Starter 

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
I am wondering whether the huge color problem with the title
sequence of "Live and Let Die" will be corrected. Something
tells me no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
According to this post, the color has been corrected:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3447657-post30.html
Yes, and that's why I'm wondering if they're going to fix the GOLDFINGER jump-cut mistake, too.

Up until I found out that they were correcting some of the color issues on the other titles, I figured they were just porting the UE transfers over to the blu-ray discs as-is.

The fact that they're making some color corrections is good news- but I guess we'll see if they'll bother correcting other mistakes.

Making sure they're aware of it (and that we're aware of it) can't hurt, in any case.
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post #9 of 75
10/21/08 at 3:11pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

I think they are taking some trouble over these releases. I watched the "Inside Live And Let Die" doco last night and the whole programme has been rebuilt from the ground up with all the non-interview material (clips and stills) redone in HD and the interviews very pleasingly windowboxed to 16:9. If they're doing that with the extras, they're bound to be correcting any problems in the films themselves.
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post #10 of 75
10/22/08 at 4:40pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Since this is the umpteenth time they've asked us too buy these titles...
they better be better than EVER!
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post #11 of 75
10/23/08 at 8:28am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
Since this is the umpteenth time they've asked us too buy these titles...
they better be better than EVER!

They are better than ever - when they actually work!
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post #12 of 75
10/27/08 at 2:20am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

I'm sure the team led by John Cork is looking into it, hence why the movie wasn't in the first batch.
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post #13 of 75
10/27/08 at 7:56am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Are there missing frames in Dr. No? I thought I saw Bond "twitch" in the scene where he's inspecting Strangways' cottage. I rewound and it repeated the same "twitch." I wondered if this had always been there and I've just not noticed it before. I seem to recall that it did it again during another scene, but don't recall where exactly.

I would think it was a missing frame since his head moves but one of the transition frames of that movement is missing resulting in a "twitch."
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post #14 of 75
10/27/08 at 8:03am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

It seems a few James Bond movies are missing frames...

FRWL missing some frames in the last scene when Bond is looking at the film before he ditches it in the water...

Thunderball is missing some frames before Bond jumps in the water with the souped up scuba gear, stating "and the kitchen sink"...

And apparently Goldfinger as stated in this thread. The last one I can check out as I do still have the Criterion LD. Just have to remember when I get home.
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post #15 of 75
10/27/08 at 8:49am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Seven
It seems a few James Bond movies are missing frames...

Have those titles always been missing those frames in their various video incarnations though?

In the restoring Bond docu they talk about MGM having the final say as to if things are to be corrected (a scene in Man with the Golden Gun where you can see the camera crew in a mirror is the example poised, don't know if they digitally altered it or not) perhaps they didn't want this stuff fixed. I wouldn't know why not as it has been done in other films with such "damage." I don't think that most people would complain if they electronically fixed the missing frames.
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post #16 of 75
10/27/08 at 10:31am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Some of those missing frames were editing techniques used by the original filmakers as a way of speeding up the action. The From Russia with Love cut was a last minute edit for the censors. Goldfinger's car scene is a true missing frame case in which some torn frames were removed when the first DVDs came out in the late 1990s. Those frames could be repaired and re-inserted...

-R
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post #17 of 75
10/27/08 at 1:22pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Swindoll
Are there missing frames in Dr. No? I thought I saw Bond "twitch" in the scene where he's inspecting Strangways' cottage. I rewound and it repeated the same "twitch." I wondered if this had always been there and I've just not noticed it before. I seem to recall that it did it again during another scene, but don't recall where exactly.

I would think it was a missing frame since his head moves but one of the transition frames of that movement is missing resulting in a "twitch."
That is a deliberate creative decision made in 1962 to speed the scene along.
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post #18 of 75
10/27/08 at 3:36pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MielR
Yes, and that's why I'm wondering if they're going to fix the GOLDFINGER jump-cut mistake, too.

Up until I found out that they were correcting some of the color issues on the other titles, I figured they were just porting the UE transfers over to the blu-ray discs as-is.

The fact that they're making some color corrections is good news- but I guess we'll see if they'll bother correcting other mistakes.

Making sure they're aware of it (and that we're aware of it) can't hurt, in any case.

Do we have CONFIRMATION that some of these Ultimate Edition issues have been fixed on the blu-rays (i.e. the title sequence of "Live And Let Die") ?
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post #19 of 75
10/27/08 at 8:23pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

I would've loved to have seen the last bit from FRWL restored. It's a very annoying an jerky cut. I don't know the details (or rather, I can't remember them) but I assume that the footage is lost forever?
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post #20 of 75
10/27/08 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray H
I would've loved to have seen the last bit from FRWL restored. It's a very annoying an jerky cut. I don't know the details (or rather, I can't remember them) but I assume that the footage is lost forever?

Bond said something- or alluded to something- too risque for the censors, supposedly. Who knows if the footage still exists- it might, but it doesn't seem like anyone is looking too hard for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Swindoll
Have those titles always been missing those frames in their various video incarnations though?

In the restoring Bond docu they talk about MGM having the final say as to if things are to be corrected (a scene in Man with the Golden Gun where you can see the camera crew in a mirror is the example poised, don't know if they digitally altered it or not) perhaps they didn't want this stuff fixed. I wouldn't know why not as it has been done in other films with such "damage." I don't think that most people would complain if they electronically fixed the missing frames.


GOLDFINGER is a totally different issue, though. There were some damaged frames that were just cut out of the print and nobody bothered to repair it for the "ultimate" edition. A cameraperson in a mirror is true to the original production. It's not a defect of the source material, like in the case of Goldfinger, and previous home video releases had no such problem. I have the Criterion LD and the frames are NOT missing.

What I don't understand is how the missing frames from the 1st DVD release, ended up marring the Lowry UE disc as well?
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post #21 of 75
10/28/08 at 7:26am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Did the missing bit from OHMSS ever get reinstated?
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post #22 of 75
10/28/08 at 7:32am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter of Mars
That is a deliberate creative decision made in 1962 to speed the scene along.

That may be well and good, but to me it makes it look like a problem and doesn't in any manner make the scene move any faster IMHO. I almost wanted to eject the disc and check for fingerprints or something else that would make the disc malfunction. I know other films have had such things repaired electronically.
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post #23 of 75
10/28/08 at 12:57pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Swindoll
That may be well and good, but to me it makes it look like a problem and doesn't in any manner make the scene move any faster IMHO. I almost wanted to eject the disc and check for fingerprints or something else that would make the disc malfunction. I know other films have had such things repaired electronically.
Well it's not a problem, so I guess you'll just have to deal with the way a 46 year old movie was made.
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post #24 of 75
10/28/08 at 1:27pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter of Mars
Well it's not a problem, so I guess you'll just have to deal with the way a 46 year old movie was made.

I called a therapist about it but they just laughed at me. Not very professional
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post #25 of 75
10/29/08 at 2:07am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

I think we are in good hands this time around, it seems the Bond BD releases are having the UE issues corrected

fabulous!!!

-Gary
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post #26 of 75
10/29/08 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Well, considering that the excised frames from Goldfinger were not a UE problem (they were also missing from the previous DVD release) I certainly hope they address that as well.
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post #27 of 75
11/2/08 at 9:12am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MielR
What I don't understand is how the missing frames from the 1st DVD release, ended up marring the Lowry UE disc as well?
This is a most disturbing issue, MielR. I'm afraid that this particular issue with the Goldfinger UE suggests that Lowry Digital did not actually use the original camera negative for this transfer.
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post #28 of 75
11/2/08 at 11:13am

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
This is a most disturbing issue, MielR. I'm afraid that this particular issue with the Goldfinger UE suggests that Lowry Digital did not actually use the original camera negative for this transfer.

The missing frames (in all of the DVD versions) also fit with the theory that Lowry did use the original negative, but the frames were damaged beyond repair in the negative some time ago.

-R
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post #29 of 75
11/2/08 at 1:22pm

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
The missing frames (in all of the DVD versions) also fit with the theory that Lowry did use the original negative, but the frames were damaged beyond repair in the negative some time ago.
But I was under the impression that the film elements for the 1995 video release of Goldfinger were also used for the initial DVD releases by MGM before the UE editions. However, the 1995 video doesn't have the missing frames flaw, but it has the very same scratches and dirt exhibited in the initial DVD releases. This is most confusing and frustrating. I sure hope that Lowry solves this particular conundrum with a perfect Blu-ray transfer -- otherwise I'll be
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post #30 of 75
11/2/08 at 9:27pm
Thread Starter 

Re: GOLDFINGER : will 'missing frames' issue be fixed for blu-ray?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reagan
The missing frames (in all of the DVD versions) also fit with the theory that Lowry did use the original negative, but the frames were damaged beyond repair in the negative some time ago.

-R
Then why didn't they replace the missing frames with those from a print, such as the one used for the Criterion LD?
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Goldfinger [Blu-ray]
James Bond Blu-ray Collection Three-Pack, Vol. 3 (Moonraker/ The World is Not...
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