A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray - Page 2

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Without a doubt, I'll take door #3. If this barebones policy results in more releases of catalog HD titles at easily affordable sales prices....I'll be buying like crazy. Just like I did when SD DVD offered pretty much the same strategy 10 years ago. If I'm interested in extras, I'll just watch my SD DVD disc.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

People will spend depending upon the importance of a given film to them. My favorite film of all time happens to be BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI, and if Sony eventually decides to release this on Blu-ray at $50. with no bonus features whatsoever - providing the transfer is superb - I will buy it without hesitation. Any film with lesser value to me - and that would be all movies - will result in my weighing in price vs. quality vs. features. Most of us already own the movies we truly love on SD -several times over, probably - and we're not willing to buy them yet again unless there is a strong incentive. That is where Fox and a few other studios drop the ball with Blu-ray and shoot themselves in the foot. How much effort, really, does it require to port over extras previously available (especially if they're not presented in 1080) into a new Blu-ray edition? I think there is a great deal of laziness, or else the studios are anticipating yet another multiple sale down the road for "Blu-ray special editions" that will offer these missing extras. Either way, it sucks, and I think we may finally be reaching that plateau at which consumers will (especially in these financially troubling times) simply say, "No, I've had enough. Studio greed has peaked and I'm no longer going to buy into it." I will be one of them. You want to entice me to buy a movie for the third or fourth time on DVD, Fox? Give me a reasonable list price and a full array of previously-available (as well as new) extras! Case closed.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

FWIW (and it probably ain't worth much), it seems to me there is a real "Groundhog Day" situation in BD review threads on the HTF.

Many such threads seem to evolve into the same old debate over the quality of the transfer versus a lack of bonus features. Then, some well-intentioned soul chimes in to explain that there is BD-25 and BD-50 and that it makes sense for certain titles to be processed as a BD-25 (leading to few, if any, bonus features). This, in turn, raises the ire of some well-meaning member who wants to know why his/her favorite title should be pre-determined to be a BD-25...

My point is this: I wonder if it would be helpful for the HTF membership to have a better knowledge of BD processing limitations currently exisiting within the industry? Just from sampling a number of BD Review (or "few words about...") threads it seems as if there is a lack of understanding on a large part of the membership about issues within the BD processing industry. A better understanding of these issues on the part of the membership may lead to a more-informed discussion across the board.

I guess the remaining question would be: is there agreement about the limitations themselves on the part of the industry? In other words, could the explanations about production issues be made here in a manner that most insiders would agree to be true?

A clearinghouse thread on that issue might be a good place to start.

Just thinking out loud.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

It's a fair point, Mike, but even if CARRIE must be a BD-25 (and this title is far too popular for me to buy into that for a second), I don't find it likely that the addition of the SD-DVD's extras to this 98 minute film would have had an appreciable effect on the film's video and audio quality. If I'm wrong, an alternate option, which Warner has offered on many titles, is to offer a second standard SD-DVD alongside the Blu-ray of the film proper with the extras on it. In any case, if a studio chooses to give consumers less than what they were given access to before, I think that studio will be hard-pressed to make any appreciable headway in the marketplace.

This is all so frustrating because I really love this movie...

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Travis: I understand your thoughts completely. Dick and Crawdaddy expressed similar positions when they each said that it's the individual film which decides for them if the price/quality of transfer/amount of bonus features combo is "worth it."

My point was just that it seems like there is a real disparity in the level of understanding among many of us HTFers about some of the limitations currently based on BD production because of processing issues (mostly, I guess, due to the newness of the technology).

Some are blessed with an insiders knowledge of the issues while many of us are ignorant about much of the situation. And I just keep seeing the same pattern within threads like this one about Carrie.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

"Carrie" is one of my fond movie memories from the time I saw it as a kid at the drive-in during its theatrical run in the mid-70s. (My poor, unsuspecting parents... bless their hearts.)

It's a film I own on DVD, in a nice special edition.

It's a film I'd love to own on Blu-ray.

However, there aren't enough trailer park meth labs out there to make me delusional enough to shell out the money for a bare-bones Blu disc that MSRPs for $ 40.00.

Yes, I know most who post here at HTF know better than to pay retail for a title and rarely if ever do (myself included). However, with an MSRP of forty bucks, the "discount" percentage off that is still whackadoodle crazy.

Fox/MGM, this is a lost sale for you -- and one that engenders aggravation from a would-be patron. No, I'm not going to "boycott" Fox/MGM titles. (I have a life.)

What I will do is remember. And I will pay even closer attention to the cost/value quotient on your other releases, past and future.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

At very least at a MSRP of 39.98 the theatrical presentation could have been done on a BD-25 as noted and included a standard dvd with existing bonus materials as I doubt many of these would see benefit of being on BD as it is. Even then I still think it would be overpriced. This just seems like the Superbiting of BDs

This sums up my feelings as well and I believe those who feel the benefit of the increase pricing vs the turn downs being few are grossly mistaken. In addition pricing such as this does nothing to advance this format, if anything it shows how out of touch the studios can be

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Very well said. I simply could not agree more. And I certainly would've picked up Carrie, The Amityville Horror and The Omen had the prices on these catalogue titles been a little more reasonable.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

As for the question of street price that I would pay for a bare bones release, I would go with $20 - $25.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Blu-ray Review: Carrie (1976) | High-Def Digest
Summary: Substandard and MPEG-2. MPEG-2?? If this is MPEG-2 it's an older encoding held back for some reasons. Is it?

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Yes.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

I have no desire to buy catalog titles at more than 20-22 bucks at Amazon. Until Fox gets in line I simply will not purchase any discs of theirs unless there is a BOGO type sale. There is no way a catalog title should be priced the same as a new disc when the catalog version of the disc (and usually with special features although I do not care about those) can be had for 8 bucks on dvd.

I'm STILL waiting to get Man On Fire and Master & Commander because of this...

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Which, I think, brings up a very interesting question; are the studios out of touch are is it the HDM aficianados that have a problem with reality? Certainly, the studios are entitled to a reasonable profit just like in years past with the LD format. I really don't know what's a reasonable profit. Perhaps those that do can comment on pricing.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

When you can buy multi-disc Blu-ray sets like BLADE RUNNER and CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND for $20-$25, I think the answer is clear and it rhymes with "the moodios are grout of such".

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

One thing that's being overlooked, and it was true in earlier DVD pricing structure as well, are that some of the studios have ties with hardware manufacturing and some don't.

What this means is that the studios with hardware manufacturing ties (WB, Universal, Sony, off the top of my head) charge less for their product because they have a vested interest in seeing the product succeed due to their parent companies being involved in the creation of hardware. Thus hardware sales can subsidize lower priced software.

On the other hand, the other studios (Disney, Fox are two) do not have hardware ties, and thus rely on their software sales for profit. No coincidence that those two have historically charged higher prices not just in Blu-Ray, but also DVD as well.

It's not an apology for them, but rather an explanation in the various forces that drive pricing decisions. They aren't all stupid in those boardrooms, otherwise those companies would have been driven out of business a long time ago.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

I'll take door number 1, please, and my price is a firm $20 street.

Further, if an enhanced version came out later at a higher price, I would not purchase it, but I wouldn't be enraged at a better copy coming out at the same price. No rebates of any kind are to be tolerated. Rebates are scams that vendors know will most likely never be redeemed.

I don't have any interest in waiting from some possible sale, Amazon or other.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Aye-aye cap'in! I've seen BD's that were priced 7X over the DVD in Busted Buy. Eargon was on sale one day recently for $5. On the BD aisle, they were stamped $35.

I'd like to get Carrie because I've never had the DVD. I do have an LD. However, I will wait till it's on sale. Very few videodiscs are worth more than $20 to me at this point. When the format was an infant, I sometimes paid more just to have somethin' to play. That was then, this is now. Fox-MGM's prices are just unacceptable. They've lowered some lists to $35 but I'm not impressed. I'll proably even wait for The Day The Earth Stood Still to go on sale and I like it a hell of alot more than Carrie. Twenty-five and change, at Amazonia, is stille too much for budjet releases such as Fox-MGM are so partial to.

No studio has taken the fun out of collecting videos over the years like Fox. I'm sorry that they and Crumcast were able to pry MGM away from Sony at this point. It's alot more fun to collect reasonably-priced catalog titles from the likes of Warner and Sony than collecting Fox titles. There's never a good reason to jump on a Fox title on release day, given the prices.

Robert's review has me wanting a copy. I read other reviews that trashed the PQ. I quessed they were against the grain, say hay! I'm on the wait. I'd like to make wall art of that ole LD but I'm patient. Carrie's a $15 disc as far as I'm concerned. Robert's glowing review just makes it harder!

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

I'll take #1 and at $20. I feel that's reasonable and doable, should be very easily doable for a catalog title like Carrie. It's not like they need to make $$$ to compensate for some massive loss looming over their heads on the title. Of course, I do not know what kind of agreement with the artists etc. may have been made, especially with some old titles before home video, and I suppose these could be expensive to the studio in some circumstances...

Considering most of the discs of this ilk the fans have on SE-DVD, it's not so hard to keep the DVD for the extras as they're not worth much to sell, and no point paying for the (typically) SD extras again. Once we're over $20, I'm looking for a more complete package so at least I can give the DVD away and create some shelf space (my quid pro quo for laying out more $$).

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

DAMN, where did you find the Blu-ray CLOSE ENCOUNTERS for $20-25 at? And here, I thought I got it at a bargain when I ordered it from Amazon for $32.95 a couple days ago...

Vincent

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

While I agree with the folks criticizing the lack of supplements and the inflated list price, I have to say, to attack the codec of the film being presented in and of itself is pretty absurd, when some of the most highly-praised Blu-ray discs have been MPEG-2 (the special-feature lacking KINGDOM OF HEAVEN anyone?)...

And to link a Peter Bracke review as evidence that this Blu-ray is bad- Michel, you of all DNR-hating folk should know better than this! You're quoting Peter Bracke, the man who praised the Blu-ray of SCARY MOVIE to high Heaven- as in, the SCARY MOVIE Blu-ray which is one of the greatest Blu-ray DNR abominations known to all mankind! This is NOT the type of reviewer who you want to throw your trust behind against Robert Harris when it comes to evaluating a proper, film-like presentation on Blu-ray.

Vincent

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

It's not consistently on sale for that price, but it commonly is. Shop around and stay vigilant!


This logic irritates the pants off me--I already have over 1,500 DVDs and Blu-rays that are becoming a nightmare to find storage space for, and now you want me to double-up?! If the Blu-ray is done right, a) storage space becomes less of an issue because I can sell the old SD-DVD off and b) use the money from that sale to help off-set the cost of the Blu-ray.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

I've never seen Close Encounters for $20 to $25 either. And quoting the (amazing) sale price on that title or Blade Runner but quoting the MSRP on Carrie isn't a fair comparison.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Don't read too much into a posting. I was neither supporting Brake's verdict nor suggesting that MPEG2 must be bad. But MPEG2 on BD25 is not exactly a recipe for a newly made superior disk. Nobody these days uses MPEG2 on BD25 because if you are limited to the smaller BD variant you want to encode efficiently and not waste space. So I have good reason to suspect this disc was encoded quite some time ago and I wonder why it was held back. On the other hand if there is only the film which is not very long and they used a pretty high average bit rate the encoding might be just fine, MPEG2 or not. If it's one of the older Fox < 20 Mbit/s MPEG2 jobs it will suffer, though.
Sounds like a disk I will rent first to check it out before purchasing.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Sorry, but it has been, multiple times, both online and at brick-and-mortar retailers.


That's a fair counterargument, but we don't even have to bring sale pricing into it--for $39.95 SRP across all three titles, CE3K, BR and CARRIE, compare what the consumer gets with the firt two versus the latter. Fox is screwing consumers on multiple levels with this title, end of story.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Travis, DVDBeaver shows that the feature film of Carrie takes up only 19.6 GB on a BD-25. That leaves at least a single DVD layer worth of space for extras, which I seriously doubt was fully used by the previous DVD release. So yes, even on a BD-25, there seems to be plenty of room to have added the extras that already existed.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Well, thanks for cheering me up, Mike!

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

...LD's, the movie only in CLV for $39.95...we've finally come full circle!

By the way, I'm a movie collector, not a bonus material collector.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Well, I hope I can be like you when I grow up, John, but right now I live in a childish fantasyland where technology has advanced to the point where everyone can easily have both!

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

Once again, on Blu-ray there is plenty of disc space, and it continues to baffle me that those who don't care about bonus features begrudge those that do. I have not heard one person claim they want bonus features at the compromise of video/audio quality. On Blu-ray we can have the very best picture and audio quality available as well as numerous quality bonus features. One only need look at Indiana Jones, the Pirates Trilogy, or of all things, Superbad and Hot Fuzz.

Like Travis and others, I'm a movie collector too, and like Travis, BECAUSE I am a movie collector, I'm also interested in the things that went into the movie. Movies I enjoy, I also enjoy knowing more about.

Like Travis has said repeatedly, like I have said repeatedly, and like others on other threads and forums have said repeatedly, we can have both.

Re: A few words about...™ Carrie -- in Blu-ray

But that would require re-authoring the disc. The MPEG-2 and lack of extras matches the pattern of early Fox releases. I think this was meant to come out some time back, and for whatever reason, just made it out the door.

The studio obviously didn't want to go to the extra expense of redoing to disc to bring it up to current standards. Released on the same day, The Omen, obviously prepared later, has all the extras produced previously, and even some new ones.