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Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

post #1 of 17
10/11/08 at 7:47pm
Thread Starter 
I am very curious about the GRAND CANYON short feature included on the new Disney SLEEPING BEAUTY disc. I understand this was shown along with SB in its initial run. Since GRAND CANYON was 35mm Cinemascope with four track stereo sound and most of the opening engagements of SB were in 70mm with six track stereo sound... this must have been very complicated for the projectionists with two different sound and projection formats, as well as different aspect ratios. Does anyone know how this was worked out and how widely this was shown as a co-feature? (I actually saw SB in 70mm at age 5 in its initial release at the long gone Willow Lawn theatre here in Richmond, Va.)

I was very impressed by GRAND CANYON on this disc. It is nicely shot and the sound is spectacular. It almost seemed like a Disney experiment combining the visualization of classical music in FANTASIA with the True Life Adventure nature films. On the Cinema Treasures site on the entry for Grauman's Chinese theatre there is an ad from the early sixties for an all stereophonic program which features FANTASIA, GRAND CANYON, and TOOT WHISTLE PLUNK AND BOOM.

Also.... some of the aerial shots in GRAND CANYON look a lot like the footage Kubrick used for his "star gate" sequence in 2001... though with the color solarized. Is it possible some of this was footage from GRAND CANYON?
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post #2 of 17
10/11/08 at 9:45pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim*Tod

I was very impressed by GRAND CANYON on this disc. It is nicely shot and the sound is spectacular. It almost seemed like a Disney experiment combining the visualization of classical music in FANTASIA with the True Life Adventure nature films. On the Cinema Treasures site on the entry for Grauman's Chinese theatre there is an ad from the early sixties for an all stereophonic program which features FANTASIA, GRAND CANYON, and TOOT WHISTLE PLUNK AND BOOM.

Also.... some of the aerial shots in GRAND CANYON look a lot like the footage Kubrick used for his "star gate" sequence in 2001... though with the color solarized. Is it possible some of this was footage from GRAND CANYON?

If you were impressed with this on SD, you'd be mesmerized by the Blu-ray version, although I'm sure some of these HD IMAX DVD's are even more awesome.
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post #3 of 17
10/11/08 at 9:53pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

I just looked through discs one and two - exactly where is this Grand Canyon short, because I sure didn't see it listed anywhere - either on the main feature disc or in the extras, and yes I clicked on "more." Am I blind, or is it hidden away somewhere?
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post #4 of 17
10/11/08 at 9:54pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Pn the BD version, it's on Disc one along with the feature.
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post #5 of 17
10/11/08 at 10:43pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick
Pn the BD version, it's on Disc one along with the feature.

Don't have the Blu-Ray only the SD and I sure didn't see it on there - maybe I'll go back to disc one and try to find it again.
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post #6 of 17
10/11/08 at 11:23pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

On the SD it is on disc one as a bonus feature.
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post #7 of 17
10/12/08 at 2:38am

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim*Tod
...Since GRAND CANYON was 35mm Cinemascope with four track stereo sound and most of the opening engagements of SB were in 70mm with six track stereo sound... this must have been very complicated for the projectionists with two different sound and projection formats, as well as different aspect ratios. Does anyone know how this was worked out and how widely this was shown as a co-feature?...

Excellent question, Jim. Since the process of "blowing up" 35mm 'scope negatives to 70mm prints didn't begin until 1964 - The Beginning of the End - The 35mm to 70mm Blowup
I can see that would have been an exhibition problem requiring two separate projectors.
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post #8 of 17
10/12/08 at 4:13am

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

On the SD DVD Disc One Main Menu:

Choose "Bonus Features"
Choose "Backstage Disney"
"Grand Canyon" is the third option from the top on that menu.

Regards,
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post #9 of 17
10/12/08 at 6:29am

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Excellent question, Jim. Since the process of "blowing up" 35mm 'scope negatives to 70mm prints didn't begin until 1964 - The Beginning of the End - The 35mm to 70mm Blowup
I can see that would have been an exhibition problem requiring two separate projectors.

Actually it would have been four, as the booths would still have been doing changeovers at that time.
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post #10 of 17
10/12/08 at 8:33am
Thread Starter 

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

That's true Matthew.... that would have been a very crowded booth!
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post #11 of 17
10/12/08 at 2:10pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

My guess is they reserved Grand Canyon for the 35mm run of the film and didn't bother with 70mm due to the logistical problems already suggested.
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post #12 of 17
10/12/08 at 4:12pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Guys, the answer is quite simple and, no, there weren't 4 or more projectors and there was no blow up to 35mm. When Todd AO was introduced, one of its big selling points was that their Phillips projectors would also run 35mm both mag and optical.Change over of the gates, sprokets etc, took a few minutes. Other manufacturers followed suit. By 1960 when SB opened, every 70 mm installation could show both 35 and 70mm with a simple changeover.In those days projectionists had to earn their keep!
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post #13 of 17
10/12/08 at 5:03pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Not only the Phillips, but all 70mm projectors were dual format. The standard reel size for 70mm was 4000 feet. At the Queen theater in Honolulu, where we ran Sleeping Beauty in 70mm, all of the Grand Canyon featurette was mounted on a single 4000' reel, and we had a good 30 minutes of free time to convert one of the projectors to 35mm for the GC featurette. The conversion back to 70mm was done while reel 1 of SB was running on the other projector.

All of the 70mm mag penthouses had magnetic heads for both 6 track mag and 4 track mag. The gate assembly needed to be swapped out, all the sprockets were dual format and the pad rollers could be changed with a simple flip or replacement. The lenses had to be swapped from the 70mm format prime to a 35mm format anamorphic. Total time to convert: 2 minutes.

A slightly different threading path routed the film past either the 4 track and 6 track mag heads.

Vern
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post #14 of 17
10/12/08 at 7:10pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Vern and John---

Thanks so much for your responses. I did know most of the 70mm projectors could also show 35mm, but I wasn't sure just how much work was involved in going from one to the other. And yes... projectionists earned their pay back then. The lack of true professional projectionists is why overall presentation quality is so crummy in the last twenty or thirty years. I really appreciate hearing from you guys who actually know what you are talking about. Thanks again.
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post #15 of 17
10/13/08 at 12:07pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Reagrding the posts above, as a newbie I'll just say -- Wow, this site kicks all sorts of @#$$
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post #16 of 17
10/13/08 at 1:51pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

Hello Vern,

I do not know if you remember me but I used to know you when you worked at the Waipahu Theatre for Yogo Okubo after he leased the house from Consolidated Amusement Company. I also remember your father when he was the manager at the theatre in the early fifties. I used to visit you at the booth very often and remember the night when you were able to obtain and run a four track mag stereo print of Tora! Tora! Tora at the Waipahu.

I still remember the 70mm engagement of SLEEPING BEAUTY at the Queen Theatre and how hard you worked switching from 35mm for GRAND CANYON and to 70mm for the Disney film. I was told by many who knew him him that Herman Rosen the head of Royal Theatres was a showman and made sure SLEEPING BEAUTY was shown in Honolulu in 70mm.

I do not have a blue ray player yet but when I heard a regular DVD of the 50th Anniversary of SLEEPING BEAUTY was going to be included with the high definition set, I bought the it and I am glad I did. I also have the previous set but the new release is much better.

-Claude S
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post #17 of 17
10/13/08 at 5:29pm

Re: Grand Canyon extra on Sleeping Beauty dvd

A voice from the past, wow. Are you still in Hawaii? Send me a PM.

Yes, as a matter of fact, the Queen was actually shut down for a few days while the screen was replaced with a larger one and new projection, sound equipment, and speakers were installed specifically for SB.Yes, Herman Rosen, who I actually worked for for a while through their 16mm rental arm and RCA 16mm projector dealer was definitely a showman. The technical guy, Meyers was his name was also ahead of the curve, and was one of the few techs to not equalize to the academy curve, so the Royal theaters all had excellent optical sound quality with excellents highs and bass you could actually feel.

Most of the Consolidated theaters were unbelivably well equipped in the projection and sound world. 3 projector booth installations were the norm and almost every one of the theaters received 4 track mag installations for CinemaScope.

Vern
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