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Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
Apologies for not using one of the other Vertigo and/or Legacy threads, but this seemed serious enough to warrant its own thread (moderators feel free to move if you think best).

I picked up the Legacy VERTIGO yesterday. The original mono track IS NOT INCLUDED on this release. There are two English language options (a 5.1 and a 2.0) but both feature the 1996 sound track. The back of the box indicates a 2.0 mono track, but it's not there (at least not on my copy). Going through the options one by one I got 1. 5.1 ('96), 2. 2.0 ('96), 3. commentary (Harris/Katz/Coleman), and 4. commentary (Friedkin).

The picture is a noticeable (though not startlingly so) improvement over the Masterpiece Collection, so it's very frustrating for fans of this movie that the original sound track is not included. This does not bode well for the future blu-ray release.
post #2 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamMcK
Apologies for not using one of the other Vertigo and/or Legacy threads, but this seemed serious enough to warrant its own thread (moderators feel free to move if you think best).

I picked up the Legacy VERTIGO yesterday. The original mono track IS NOT INCLUDED on this release. There are two English language options (a 5.1 and a 2.0) but both feature the 1996 sound track. The back of the box indicates a 2.0 mono track, but it's not there (at least not on my copy). Going through the options one by one I got 1. 5.1 ('96), 2. 2.0 ('96), 3. commentary (Harris/Katz/Coleman), and 4. commentary (Friedkin).

The picture is a noticeable (though not startlingly so) improvement over the Masterpiece Collection, so it's very frustrating for fans of this movie that the original sound track is not included. This does not bode well for the future blu-ray release.

Terrible. No purchase here. And from the screencaps I've seen, the main title is still the wrongly tinted version - is that right?
post #3 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Yup! The color gaffe over the main-title "blank face" is still there. I've just finished watching the whole thing (with Friedkin's commentary--though I wasn't giving it my undivided attention), and I have to say it's the best this film has looked on home video. But unfortunately that doesn't mitigate Universal's failure to provide the original sound track.

Bottom line is if you like the '96 sound then this is worth getting for the improved picture and the new extras; if you don't like the '96 sound save your money.
post #4 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

What an annoyance. Do you think Universal will do a replacement, given this is false advertising on their part?
post #5 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

The 2.0 ('96) isn't a 2.0 dual mono track?
post #6 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie O.
The 2.0 ('96) isn't a 2.0 dual mono track?

That's what the back of the box says, but on the menu it's cryptically labeled as "English" (as opposed to the default audio which is labeled "English 5.1"). I went through each available audio option, listening very carefully through the first two scenes of the movie (the rooftop chase and the first scene between Midge and Scottie in her apartment). I only have a two speaker set-up, but clearly both non-commentary options offer only the 1996 sound track. I know this because:

1. On both tracks the main title music is clearly in stereo.

2. On both tracks you can hear the "repeating" gun shot foleys that sound so anachronistic in a 1958 movie (the original track, available on the Masterpiece Collection has single gun shots).

3. On both tracks the sound of the cushions as Scottie sits down on Midge's day bed are missing (a silly thing to notice, but notice it I did--the sound is almost oddly prominent on the original track, as can be heard on the Masterpiece Collection).

I haven't listened to the other scenes that particularly bother me about the 1996 sound track (the overly prominent street noises during Scottie's trailing of Madeleine; the seagull squawks just prior to Madeleine's jumping into San Francisco Bay; and the unintentionally humorous clattering/clunk as Madeleine's body falls onto the tiles of the Mission roof); but as far as I'm concerned those repeating gun shots during the roof top chase are a dead give away.
post #7 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

What a crushing disappointment, as this is my favorite film of all time.

HOWEVER...

I'll still get it for the improved image and the extras. I still have both the Masterpiece Collection and the original non-anamorphic edition, and since I have no intention of parting with either of them, I'll always have the mono track at my disposal. Hell, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to put together a homemade combination of the new DVD image with the mono track.....
post #8 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Beam
What a crushing disappointment, as this is my favorite film of all time.

HOWEVER...

I'll still get it for the improved image and the extras. I still have both the Masterpiece Collection and the original non-anamorphic edition, and since I have no intention of parting with either of them, I'll always have the mono track at my disposal. Hell, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to put together a homemade combination of the new DVD image with the mono track.....

While the image may be improved in terms of sharpness - who cares, if the titles are still the wrong tint, and there is no original mono soundtrack? This is, to put it as kindly as possible, a travesty. Clearly they did not do a new transfer.
post #9 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

This is an issue that should be looked into further. Universal has already done a transfer of Vertigo's surviving optical printmaster for the masterpiece edition release, so I can't see why they wouldn't bother simply slapping that track on this dvd. Also the initial PR listed the mono track being included.
post #10 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
This is an issue that should be looked into further. Universal has already done a transfer of Vertigo's surviving optical printmaster for the masterpiece edition release, so I can't see why they wouldn't bother simply slapping that track on this dvd. Also the initial PR listed the mono track being included.

Since I got it in advance of the street date, I suppose it's possible that I got an early incorrect pressing; but this much I can guarantee you, the Legacy set that I have does not include the original mono track (unless my Oppo player is malfunctioning in some way that I've never heard of; or unless Universal included it as an Easter Egg... do the studios even bother with those anymore?). I know Vertigo and both the 1958 original and 1996 redone soundtracks like I know my own name, and the original mono track is not one of the playable audio options on the set I have.
post #11 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

WilliamMcK mentioned the noise Midge's couch made when Scottie sat on it. I'm with him - that and all the other original audio effects made up an extremely memorable soundtrack. If you don't hear them anymore when you expect to, it's very jarring.

For me one of the worst additions on the 1996 track is the sound of Scottie flipping on a lightswitch when Madeleine appears as a dark silhouette at his door at dawn, to tell him about her dream. On the original track there was no sound at all except for the music as Madeleine's shadow brightened, revealing that it was actually her. All the strangeness and mystery in the shot is cancelled out by the sound of that lightswitch clicking on.

If I were in charge of the new soundtrack, I would've seen to it that the 1958 track was copied completely, in every tiny detail. That would've been a fine professional challenge for the sound technicians, too.
post #12 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Has anyone contacted Universal about this? Was it an intentional decision to leave the original track off this release? Or is this a Superman-type mistake?

It seems odd that they would include the original mono on the Masterpiece Collection, but then use a stereo mixdown of the 5.1 on this one and then mislabel the package.
post #13 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Is there a reason to get these new individual Legacy Hitchcocks if one already has the box set? Are they supposed to possess features not in the collection?
post #14 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K
Is there a reason to get these new individual Legacy Hitchcocks if one already has the box set? Are they supposed to possess features not in the collection?
There's new special features on these releases.
post #15 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Tuck
Has anyone contacted Universal about this? Was it an intentional decision to leave the original track off this release? Or is this a Superman-type mistake?

It seems odd that they would include the original mono on the Masterpiece Collection, but then use a stereo mixdown of the 5.1 on this one and then mislabel the package.

This is a commong occurance with the Hong Kong company Fortune Star, owners of the Golden Harvest films, who do the most vile remixes for the films they own. Although many of the actual DVD companies that release the films; Fox (US), Joy Sales (HK) and Hong Kong Legends (UK) pay for an 'original mono' track, often what they get is a downmix of the remix, and even then there is a lack of consistency. The UK DVD of Hand Of Death has a downmix, the US DVD genuine mono
post #16 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

A couple of other things to note about the new "Legacy" edition of Vertigo: The film during the credits has been noticeably cleaned up--it's now virtually speckle and dirt free. But some of the geometric images (particularly the green ones) no longer disappear or fade away--they break up in an almost digital way. It doesn't look good.

Another sound issue (though this relates to the 1996 sound track, not to the Legacy edition specifically): the cop's scream as he falls from the rooftop after having tried to help Scottie is not nearly as loud--as a matter of fact it's overpowered by the music/effects. On the original '58 track the cop's scream pierces through the music/effects and is blood curdling.
post #17 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

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post #18 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Well who do we get in contact with to get this resolved? Personally I don't really care about the mono track myself (from what I've heard in regards to the Masterpiece Edition, its nigh unintelligable at times due to the fact that the master is optical and from a rough print at that), but its still false advertising and Universal needs to be held accountable for yet another of its (many) blunders.
post #19 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
Well who do we get in contact with to get this resolved? Personally I don't really care about the mono track myself (from what I've heard in regards to the Masterpiece Edition, its nigh unintelligable at times due to the fact that the master is optical and from a rough print at that), but its still false advertising and Universal needs to be held accountable for yet another of its (many) blunders.

You don't care about the mono track. Fascinating, since that's the only track that contains the original mix of the film, you know, the one Alfred Hitchcock supervised and approved - why anyone would want any other mix is beyond my field of understanding. There is not one word that's unintelligible in the mono track on the Masterpiece Edition - it's a little harsh-sounding, but that's as bad as it gets.
post #20 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Unfortunately it would appear that the people who actually want to see and hear films as they were originally made are a dwindling minority. OK, the track on the Masterpiece edition isn't that great but it's a damn sight better than the godawful remix. I was planning on buying the Legacy in order to get a slightly improved image and what look like some nice extras - but no mono track means no sale. I specifically bought the Masterpiece collection in order to get the mono on Vertigo and an Anamorphic Psycho. Both films appear to be little improved upon from that release... apart from Psycho still being the US version instead of the UK.
post #21 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

I do not have the Masterpiece Vertigo, but I think the image quality on this new Legacy release is remarkably good. Also, all the extras are on a second disc now, so maybe the new transfer has a higher bitrate?
post #22 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B_K
I do not have the Masterpiece Vertigo, but I think the image quality on this new Legacy release is remarkably good. Also, all the extras are on a second disc now, so maybe the new transfer has a higher bitrate?

First off, the new transfer like the Masterpiece Collection transfer has the wrong color tint on the main titles - what a shame they didn't fix that. Second, I guess what I'm saying is that no matter how good the image quality, if you don't have the original sound mix you don't really have Vertigo.
post #23 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

I agree completely regarding the importance of having the original sound mix on the DVD. Given that it was advertised as being on the disc, I hope Universal does the right thing and offers some sort of replacement/exchange program, like Warner did for Superman.
post #24 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

It's dicey as to what they advertised. The back of the box says 2.0 mono, but it doesn't specify the original 1958 track. Technically they wouldn't have been "lying" if they had included a 2.0 mono down mix of the 5.1 DTS. I'd love Universal to correct their mistake and offer exchanges, but I'm more concerned that they realize that they MADE a mistake and that any future release of Vertigo on Blu-Ray (or any other format) WILL include the original track (preferably cleaned up in some way so that the highs and lows aren't gone, but so that it sounds better than the clickety/clackety track they used on the Masterpiece Collection... which is still infinitely superior to the 1996 track). Oh... and also CORRECT their MAJOR COLOR GAFFE over the opening credits!!!!

I have composed a letter, but I still can't find a contact. If anyone has a name/dept./address please let me know. (Universal's web site is impossible).
post #25 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

I have the review copies of the Legacy releases of Vertigo, Psycho and Rear Window. I haven't been able to get to them yet, but will do two this weekend. My impression of the releases is that they are triple dips of the prior editions, only with some additional features and an episode of "Alfred Hitchock Presents" included for bonus value. But I'll have something up this weekend for you to see.
post #26 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamMcK
I have composed a letter, but I still can't find a contact. If anyone has a name/dept./address please let me know. (Universal's web site is impossible).
From The Digital Bits' links
Quote:
Universal Studios Home Entertainment
100 Universal City Plaza
Universal City, CA 91608
818-777-1000
While I have no plans to buy these releases, I'm worried about Vertigo not having the mono track when it goes to Blu-ray so I will send a letter stating my disapproval of them dropping it from this release.
post #27 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

The following is the text of a letter I composed to Universal regarding their latest release of Vertigo. I'm holding off on sending it because I'd like to be able to address it to the correct person; and also, because based on the review that has just appeared, there's a possibility that different pressings have circulated and that the original mono track may be on some copies (seems unlikely to me, but hey... you never know). Anyway, any feedback would be appreciated:

Universal Studios Home Entertainment
100 Universal City Plaza
Universal City, CA 91608


To whom it may concern:

I am writing to inform you of two serious oversights in your most recent DVD edition of the motion picture Vertigo. Part of the Universal Legacy Series, this release celebrating the 50th anniversary of Alfred Hitchcock’s much lauded film, does not include as an audio option the movie’s original 1958 sound track. This mono track is part of your previous DVD release of the film that is included in your boxed set Alfred Hitchcock: The Masterpiece Collection.

The back of the box of your current Legacy edition does advertise a 2.0 mono option. A careful examination of the available audio tracks on the Universal Legacy Series set however, reveals that of the four audio options (two separate commentary tracks and two English stereo tracks—5.1 and 2.0, both featuring the 1996 newly created sound track which includes sound effects not part of Alfred Hitchcock’s original intentions for his movie) none are the 1958 mix that Hitchcock originally produced.

Just to be absolutely clear this is not a case of film’s original sound track being rendered in stereo. In 1996 an entirely new sound track for Vertigo was created as part of an otherwise successful restoration of the film. While this new sound track did utilize the original recording sessions for the music and retained the original dialogue readings from the actors, every sound effect—from gun shots to the rustling of a newspaper—was created from scratch. The result was a subtly, but indisputably, different movie than the one Alfred Hitchcock had made.

The second oversight is one that originally occurred during the mastering process of your previous DVD release of this title. During the main title sequence a woman’s face appears. In all theatrical and home video releases previous to The Masterpiece Collection, the woman’s face is drained of color. This was Alfred Hitchcock’s intention, to better emphasize the red that is about to suffuse the face. Unfortunately, at some point during the mastering process it was decided to boost the color in the woman’s face so that now it has an unnatural faux-flesh tone appearance. This undercuts the delicate color scheme that Hitchcock’s famous collaborator, Saul Bass, had created for the credit sequence.

Given the stellar treatment you have given Vertigo for its 50th anniversary (the film has never looked this good—visually, this is a reference quality DVD, and I congratulate your technical staff on such a well produced product), I thought I should bring these oversights to your attention. Given the importance of Vertigo as part of America’s contribution to international cinema, it is very important that the film as originally conceived by its director and his collaborators should be as widely available as possible. It is my hope that any future home video release (such as a Blu-Ray edition) will include Alfred Hitchcock’s original 1958 sound track as an option.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
post #28 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Very good letter, although I would add that the original mono theatrical mix was included on the Masterpiece Collection DVD - you want to give them all the facts. And the tint on the face is really a sepia tint - and even Mr. Harris has said it's wrong.

And now we have a "Highly recommended" review here on this site, because the reviewer obviously never saw the film pre 1998 DVD, and he didn't own the Masterpiece Collection DVD. I hope he adds both the mis-colored opening sequence and the information about the missing mono track - he seems unaware of the former, and unwilling to change the latter, because he hasn't personally heard the original mono to know the difference. But he's been told by people who actually know the film - that should be enough.
post #29 of 37

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

I sent a much shorter letter (they already know the problem and aren't going to read paragraphs anyway) but any complaints they hear will hopefully lead to them correcting the lack of the mono soundtrack for the eventual Blu-ray release.
post #30 of 37
Thread Starter 

Re: Vertigo: Universal Legacy Series -- no mono track

Here is the email I received in response to my written letter (please note: my last name is "McKeldin"--they couldn't even get that right... sheesh!)

Dear Mr. McClendin,

Thank you for contacting Universal Studios Home Entertainment. We strive to provide the highest standard in product quality and customer care, and we value input from our customers.

Your thoughtful comments and suggestions have been forwarded to the appropriate department and will be taken into consideration for future releases of "Vertigo."

We appreciate your patronage and hope that you will continue to enjoy Universal products.

Sincerely,

Consumer Relations
UNIVERSAL STUDIOS HOME ENTERTAINMENT
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