HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended - Page 2

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Oh, my Lord in heaven, the stupidity of the people on that site is beyond belief. Not a one of them ever saw Touch of Evil when it was released - they saw it on TV. Of course, they think it's Academy ratio, that's all they've ever known. But to hear them spout off is shocking, actually. No feature film from a major studio in the US in 1958 was shot in Academy ratio - none. No theater would have been able to project it that way in 1958. But because they're used to the open matte framing they think that's the way Russell Metty and Welles framed it. Sorry - they're pros - they knew how it was going to be projected. Is it tight at the top of the frame - sure, claustrophobically so, as was the intent. It's such a cliche now to say "ooh, they cut off the heads" - have these people never seen any films shot in Academy - plenty of tops of heads gone in close-ups, because the cameramen wanted the eyes just above the center of the frame. Have these people never seen a film shot in scope? Plenty of tops of heads missing in plenty of shots, plenty of tight to the frame sequences. And this is the problem with young people who grew up on films on TV and video - they have no idea about framing - don't they go to current films - plenty of tight to the frame line shots and plenty of cut-off tops of heads. But, they know better because, you know, they've watched TV and that's how they first saw the film. Reminds me about The Shining, etc. so clearly framed for 1.85:1 and so clearly projected that way in its theatrical engagements.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

They're pretty bright people, actually.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Well, you wouldn't know it from their posts.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

My DVD arrived today and I'm very happy with it. Watched the Preview Version first. What a wonderful film!

I uploaded some screenshots from all three versions and compared them to the previous NTSC und PAL transfers on this German site:

Left to right:
1. 2000 transfer of Restored Version (NTSC)
2. 2003 transfer of Restored Version (PAL)
3. Preview version (NTSC)
4. Theatrical version (NTSC)
5. 2008 transfer of Restored Version (NTSC)

http://forum.cinefacts.de/5758528-post12.html

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Sure, films were shown in 1.85:1 ratio in 1958. Are films today shown in widescreen with heads cut off? Absolutely as any who has watched LOTR films can attest.

However, WHAT Welles knows and whether one applies what one knows is on much shakier ground. If you're going down the he's a pro route than I would have to say that:

- Pros know that when someone does them a favor getting them to direct a film when nobody at the studios wants you ... you deliver in spades

- Pros know that if you don't have 'final cut' you do what you can to protect the final product. Bend over backwards, but protect your creative product as much as possible. What pros don't do is send off long-ass memos from the sidelines.

What Welles knows about modern projection is not a given. For all we know he's living in 1948 - which by the way is the last year that his friend Ernest Nims last edited a film and who Welles got on the project.

Personally, the film I know is the 1.85:1 version. I didn't grow up watching this film on TV so I don't have that bias.

I did watch the video posted on this:

New DVDs: Touch of Evil | davekehr.com

and I read some of the debate going around the Internet.

To me, the key point is that if you're going to go about doing a version of Touch of Evil with the intent of protecting the artistic choices of the director then they should protect the artistic choices of the director. Admittedly, that becomes judgmental but that comes with the project they chose so it comes with the territory.

Do I for a second believe that a lower budget film did this big long sign for the United States Customs and Immigration as visual narrative of the couple entering into the United States for the viewer? Yes. Do I believe they wanted it cropped from the scene and missing entirely as they walk up? No.

Do I think that Welles wore a fat suit so that it would be cropped so that his big belly wouldn't show it the scenes (which btw would add to the claustrophobic element Billy alludes to)? No.

Do I think a film with so many, many camera shots looking up were done so you don't see up? No.

Do I think that Welles borrows from the 1930's German style of slanted angles (in so many shots) to build on the surreal/noir aspects of the film? Absolutely. Do I think that the approach works when the background is cut off so that effect is (often) lost or that Welles went for that? No.

Welles was a visual genius. My opinion is that these gentlemen did not protect that. Others can watch the posted link and decide for themselves.

Certainly widescreen DVDs sell better than full frame and certainly calling something a "restored version" or a "definitive cut" also sells better than 'straight talk.' They are quick to point out there is no such thing as a "director's cut" but strangely the same truth that this is NOT a "restored" film alludes their lips.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

My copy of this new release arrived yesterday and I'm glad to say that, to my eye at least, it improves considerably on Universal's earlier DVD. The presentation of three different release versions (the chronologically first and second 'cuts' presumably through DVD branching) is a great accomplishment and will doubtless prove to be of great interest to students and academics in particular.

In 2001 I gave a lecture at the London National Film Theatre (now renamed BFI Southbank) on the three versions of TOUCH OF EVIL and had the chance to examine 35mm prints of the original 1958 release, the longer UCLA 1970s version and the Rick Schmidlin/Walter Murch 1998 version. While the other two were unmarked, the print of the 1998 version that was made available from the UK distributor was clearly marked on the can as to be showed in 1.66:1 and that is how we screened it - it is certainly clear when watching 35mm prints projected (which in any event to avoid showing the rounded corners cut off part of the image even when shown at 4:3) that screening it in open matte format would do it a disservice - apart from anything else, if shown that way then during the second tracking shot (the one after the zoom into the exploding car) you would be able to see the bottom of the camera dolly throughout most of the shot. Personally I have great faith in the judgement of Schmidlin, Murch and Jonathan Rosenbaum given what they have written on TOUCH OF EVIL and if they have signed off on this video release then would consider that to be a fairly good indicator that is to be taken very seriously.

Having said that, personally I have always felt that the best home video compromise would be 1.77:1 - I find it fascinating, and healthy, that this has generated so much interest. It's a magnificent and important film - the more people see it and discuss it, the better.

I think this new DVD works extremely well and is a fine release, but nothing is perfect of course and the omission of the original documentary (which has been shown on UK television however) is certainly thoroughly irritating, especially as the way it has been broken up into the new documentaries is frankly rather artless compared wityh the original. The commentaries are fascinating though, with Feeney's talk definitely coming a distant third, it has to be said. It's a shame that there are no features explicitly looking at the variences between the three versions in detail (like the Bob Gitt documentary on the BIG SLEEP release for instance) - something of a missed opportunity really.

The criticisms of this set though seem minor however, subjectively speaking of course and wel all have different standards -for instance, if the mono track really is missing from the new VERTIGO disc I for one will be bitterly disappointed since it was after all available on the previous if (if you're overseas like myself) hard-to-obtain and fairly expensive box set (UK customs would have a field day I assure you).

"Reconstructing Evil"

I watched some of the documentary material on this new SE, and it is indeed edited down from "Reconstructing Evil". The original doc had a several-minute-long intro which included snippets various talking heads make a statement which was intercut with a shot and line from the movie. For example, Rick Schmidlin says "we decided to re-edit the film the way Welles intended", and it cuts to Schwartz and Vargas in the Records room with Schwartz saying "you've got your work cut out for you", and so on.

Also, some of the talking heads are edited. In this new version, you see Robert Wise saying that "Touch of Evil was a return to the Welles I worked with from Citizen Kane..". In the uncut version, he goes on to say "..and The Magnificent Ambersons" and he continues to talk over some scenes from the film. So there is probably a lot of paring down of the various statements throughout the mini docs, but they basically add up to "Reconstructing Evil".

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Billy Feldman said all there was to be said on the subject and this is adding yet more speculation. As always, people tend to look at full screen versions of films and see all that extra material which they think was intended to be projected.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Thanks for that. I watched Wargames last night. Many shots, tops of heads cut off. It's not mis-framed, it's the way it was shot. It just truly baffles me, this lack of knowledge on framing. Very few people notice it when they go to the movies because they're not at home watching a DVD and analyzing every bit of minutiae that's in front of them, they're involved in the story and seeing what the DP and director want you to see. People can speculate all they want to about Welles, but they cannot speculate about Russell Metty, who would have most certainly told Mr. Welles how the film was being framed and since I'm pretty certain that Mr. Welles was looking through the camera every now and then, he would have clearly seen the 1.85:1 frame lines that are impossible not to see.

As someone points out above, in the full frame Touch of Evil, you see a camera dolly in the bottom of the frame - do people really need more proof than that? Think Welles wanted folks to see that? Those who simply will not believe what is obvious will also note that Mr. Welles wrote a fifty-eight page memo to the studio about changes he would like, based on having seen a projected print of the film. They most certainly would have screened the film in 1.85:1 since that is how they projected films at Universal. And, you know, nowhere in that memo do I read, "Hey, and you know I framed this for Academy so why are you projecting it in 1.85:1?"

But this argument goes around and around, just as it did on The Shining. Because Mr. Kubrick made a pronouncement in the late 1980s about wanting his film to be shown open matte on TV and home video that became that mantra all the way up until The Stanley Kubrick Archives was released and until the recent re-release of the film in its proper ratio, which, BTW, is framed perfectly. I remember reading a post somewhere on the Internet about the Kubrick Archives book, so I bought it, and, just as the post said, there were Kubrick's storyboards, clearly saying in his own hand, frame for 1.85:1 but protect the full frame. Protecting the frame means just what it says - keep extraneous stuff out so when it's shown on TV (all there was at the time of The Shining's release) you won't see mics or tops of sets.

Anyway, I think I'm smart enough to know that there's no convincing people so I'll shut up now.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Yup and if anyone wants to go back to the Kubrick thread on this forum (shudders) they will find that I came done squarely on widescreen side of the discussion BEFORE the Kubrick Archives material.

Also keep in mind that I said nothing about wanting Academy ratio either (in this case) merely that 1.85:1 didn't protect the artist, in my viewpoint.

So, why do I go widescreen on one discussion and want something that shows more top and bottom now? It's just my opinion based on what I see and what seems valid to these eyes. I do not believe even a hack would compose the shots presented, let alone talented filmmakers. Nothing more.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Not arguing here, but as you say, that's your perception. And let me tell you that if, like the Kubrick Archives, tomorrow morning a memo was found in Orson Welles' hand saying he framed this for 1.85:1 suddenly everything would seem right. All I'm saying, I guess, is that you'd have to criticize about 90% of all filmmakers for cutting off tops of heads in shots, whether in Academy, widescreen, or scope. So how come it's okay on all those films and not okay here? And the customs sign is visible in 1.85:1 - it's only the "United States" that's cut off. And while I'd have to go watch for the umpteenth time, I'm sure that it's mentioned in the dialogue at the border gate. In Academy, my eye goes right to the sign and stays there - but that's not what is important in the frame - the characters are what's important, and what they're saying. And the very opening shot of the bomb timer is much more commanding in 1:85.1 - in Academy it's just sort of floating in the middle of too much space - in 1:85.1 it's commanding.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

For what it's worth, the opening credits on the theatrical and preview cuts are 1.66:1

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

No argument here either other than honest discussion.

Every great actor and filmmaker knows that using dialogue to explain something is the activity of last resort.

What's so important about what they're saying? The absurdity of two American border agents that both recognize a Mexican City persecutor? Or the absurdity of (from the dialogue) learning that they got married on the Mexican side of the border. Great. So exactly why are they getting married there rather than Mexico City and did they stop flight service to Acapulco? Nope, we have to deal with there being no reason for them being there and the absurdity of setting your honeymoon bride up in a third-rate hotel across from a strip club in a fifth-rate town. All thanks to the all so important dialogue.

In my view, Touch of Evil plays well as a dream rather than a straight drama. I'm fine with that.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Clearly there are many different and valid opinions on the different Touch of Evil releases.

Some people prefer the film without the opening credits.

Some people like the street level music

Some people like the Henry Mancini opening music.

So I thought ... why can't we get all three?

So here's a link to just that ... for your enjoyment and comment.

YouTube - Touch of Evil - Opening Scene - With Street and Theme Music

More pointedly, there is nothing in Orson Welles' memo about not having opening music or even removing opening music. What is there is a request that street music be added emphasizing the loudspeakers honky-tonks used to draw patrons. Big difference.

Clearly what Welles did hear when he screened the movie was temp music. As we don't know what temp music it was, there is little that can be learned from that comment other than he expected that it was temporary. There's a big difference between that and listening to Henry Mancini's opening music and commenting on it being without merit. That didn't happen.

My viewpoint therefore, is that it's a very slippery slope to go down when someone reads into comments versus simply honoring Welles' comments.

So I was wondering if Welles' feedback can be honored without dishonoring Henry Mancini's contribution to the film.

You be the judge.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Certainly interesting but for me it doesn't quite work. The thing is, Welles didn't choose the source music, Walter Murch did - and the source music is all Mancini. My feeling has always been that Mancini's main title functions like source music in a way. If you're supposition was right and the film was screened with a temp score, then who knows what that was like. I only know that the original version, for me, plays better than the source music version in the Murch cut. The shot, again for me, has no magic without Mancini's which adds immeasurably to the entire sequence.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

What I'd like to see done: a new credit sequence over black with the original font of the original titles with the original Mancini credit music, followed by the new memo-inspired opening scene the way Schmidlin and Murch presented it. A 1958 movie without credits just does not seem right to me.

Film Syncs: The Mancini credit music overpowers the local music, and I like the "new" sequence with all that local flavor sans the overlay of title music. But I appreciate what you did.

BTW, is it just me, or does the cover art and menu art of Welles look more like it was derived from Gregory Arkadin rather than Hank Quinlan?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

A very good idea. I'd like to see that too.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Regarding the issue of aspect ratio's and Universal studio policy, check out Jack Theakston's accurate and informative post of 10/13 at 3:33 PM.

New DVDs: Touch of Evil | davekehr.com

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Always great to read Jack's posts - but no one wants to hear it. I love the guy who saw the film as a young boy and absolutely remembers it was in Academy. Please. People's memories are time and again proven faulty on these sorts of issues, and that, of course, continues right through the present day.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

I agree. But to be fair, why do you give credibility for Jack Theakston's post about trade articles from 1954 without any cited sources?

Seems to me the only difference in their posts is one post (Jack's) could be verifiable.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

I give credence because a) he is, I believe, a projectionist, and b) he has time and again posted trade articles here.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Jack Theakston is the head of research for our 3-D Film Preservation Fund. He has access to hundreds of industry trade journals from this period. We collected this material for 3-D documentation, but it's becoming equally important for setting the record straight on the early widescreen era. Jack knows what he's talking about. If he presents some information, you can trust it to be accurate.

It's funny how somebody can present authentic documentation from original, primary source materials and they're called on it. Then somebody else will relate a foggy 50+ year old memory of seeing a film in a theater, and that's taken for gospel. Go figure!

Bob Furmanek
Vice President
3-D Film Preservation Fund
3DFPF - 3-D Film Preservation Fund a tax exempt 501(c)3 non profit corporation

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

So right. On that Dave Kehr site, some guy named Jean-Pierre posted that he took Blake Lucas's 50 year old childhood memory as definitive - why? Because it agreed with what Jean-Pierre wants to believe.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Billy: I've posted links on the Kehr site to several documents about Universal and their widescreen films. However, while they show up on my computer, several friends are telling me they don't see them. Have they shown up on yours?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Absolutely correct. I didn't cite any sources, but if anyone asked, I can give citations for anything I say.

For example, I wrote:


I've cited the source for this a number of times, but I will again-- Interoffice memos between Jack Warner and Hitch that are on file at USC, and also BoxOffice, Variety and Motion Picture Exhibitor listing the aspect ratio.


I've personally run prints of two out of the three examples I gave-- and have been witness to projection of the other two. I've also projected a good amount of prints from 1953 and 1954 in the effort to research this material. So basically, this is based on first-hand experience and common sense (THUNDER BAY's credits don't even block for 1.85).


Someone called me on this, so I will have to cite the source. I don't have a specific date yet for the second article (which as I recall was a Daily Variety article), but I do have a scan from the first percentage, which was reported in a 12/5/53 issue of BoxOffice Magazine. You can read it here and here.


These are just general facts that can be verified by any projectionist if need be. I have the dates and announcements for each studio's "going wide."


The first statement is based on articles that appeared in trades on 4/1/53, namely Motion Picture Daily and BoxOffice. The latter were announced in October and November of '53. They can be read here and here.


Ibid.


I was referring to an example of an issue of BoxOffice I had lying in front of me. I can supply a few examples of these if anyone is interested.


Example: THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING MAN.


I included an image of this reel band as a citation on the site.


Source: original 35mm print of THE WORLD OF ABBOTT AND COSTELLO.


This is simply truth, as I proved in the NIGHT OF THE HUNTER thread.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Just went there and don't see any posts with links. It's almost as if they're afraid to have those posts - is it a conspiracy?

Seems a little specious to me.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

I'm seeing Bob's posts now. Apparently Dave's site isn't very good about posts showing up so quickly. My post from last night didn't show up until this morning.

Perhaps they're moderated.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: Touch of Evil 50th Anniversary Edition - Highly Recommended

Mine post immediately. Perhaps he trusts people in Connecticut.