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post #181 of 432
10/2/08 at 1:54pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_L
You know what bugs me most about the bailout? How everyone is afraid to point out whos at fault. But I will - it's the poor.

See -whenever the economy goes south - we rag on Wall Street. But when we do this - we conveniently forget that these are the actual people who are creating wealth and commerce. Remember - it wasn't the rich who took out crappy loans from dodgy lenders for homes they couldn't afford. It wasn't the rich defaulting on these loans, leaving us with this mess.

Nope- it was the poor who borrowed and never saved. But you can't blame them. One, because you're Satan. And two: It's not really true. It's really Congress who is guilty. They not only embraced, but enforced, this phony Robin Hood philosophy -thinking that forcing banks to give loans to meth-heads would make the world a better place. The result? We all went to hell in a three bedroom condo.

So what we have is a game of Musical mortgages - high risk borrowers buy houses they can't afford, using a sleazy lender, who then sells the mortgage to another schmuck -and when the music finally stops we're left holding the bag. But we don't have to hold it. We can make Congress pay. We can call them on their corruption, and demand accountability.

And we could also realize that no one owes you a house.

Who wrote this garbage?
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post #182 of 432
10/2/08 at 4:05pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_L
I'm a 40yr old financial VP from a well known company and I have a low six digit income - right along with Holadem's observation. (though my neighbors have no idea that I earn that much and I'm not inclined to tell them) I don't own a jet, belong to any clubs, and there are NO expensive restaurants in Port Charlotte. (But I sometimes order something not on the value meal list).

I don't have $3mil in the bank either. So where is my failing "on moral grounds" that causes me to deserve financial hardship?
I'm far behind on my own thread but my question to Michael on this issue comes from previous comments on bonuses received. From my experience and news, I assumed that the people Michael and Holadem refer to could be of the set that have base incomes c. $250k to $500k and annual bonuses of equal or greater amounts. And this is not the top brass with their multi-million dollar bonuses. With such incomes, a person could have accrued a few million during the boom.

As for cost of living, I assume they'd move to Boise with Dennis and live affordably and comfortably there

No, $3M won't go far living Sex and the City in Manhattan. But it would give a person $100k for 30 years, without even considering sensible planning. Most people could retire on that, living comfortably in much of the country.

I understand that earning $100k - $250k does not enable "dynastic" planning, at least in a few years.
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post #183 of 432
10/2/08 at 4:26pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
As for cost of living, I assume they'd move to Boise with Dennis and live affordably and comfortably there
Few people have Dennis' foresight. Fewer still would be willing to exchange Manhattan for Boise. Otherwise Dennis and I might be neighbors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
No, $3M won't go far living Sex and the City in Manhattan.
My point was that it won't go far leading a considerably less glamorous life than what you see in SatC. And most of it will be tied up in an apartment for which, at the moment, I doubt you could find a buyer.

M.
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post #184 of 432
10/2/08 at 5:54pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Fewer still would be willing to exchange Manhattan for Boise.

Surprisingly enough Boise has always been in the top 10 or so cities with the best quality of life according to magazines like Forbes and Business Week.

Now I understand that choice of city is a very personal decision, heavily influenced by where your family bore you. But I've traveled extensively throughout the US and indeed the world for 20 years as a defense contractor. To me NY city is a filthy dangerous squalid cesspool of dirty pseudo-communist brain-damaged gangsters living in a fetid slum. Please excuse my French, but that's my humble personal opinion. I am well aware that other people (e.g. Woody Allen) think otherwise, and I offer humble appologies to such worthy people.

My family had lived in San Jose since the 1800's but it wasn't a great place to live anymore. When I quit my gig at Intel in 2005, since all my family had either died or moved away, I got out a map of the US and seriously considered where the heck I should relocate. After 6 months of deciding I selected Boise, capital of red-state America.
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post #185 of 432
10/2/08 at 6:46pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Dennis, the key word in my sentence was "exchange", the point being that, regardless of one's opinion of either city, the change would be radical. There was no intent to make the comparison favorable or unfavorable in either direction. If any such appeared to be suggested, and is therefore responsible for that silly diatribe against my home town, I do apologize. It has always been a point of honor with me never to be critical of someone else's preferred venue, even if I can't imagine sharing the preference. (That's not so for Boise, BTW.)

If, OTOH, that's what you really think, well, HTF rules limit my response, which, in any case, would not be directed against the venue, consistent with the above. Use your imagination; just imagine something better written.

M.
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post #186 of 432
10/3/08 at 7:30am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Who wrote this garbage?

The author is a partisan hack - so I won't link him here - I had to edit the comments enough to pull out material sensitive for this forum.

The author does, however, make some valid observations which should not be disregarded when it is time to play the blame game.
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post #187 of 432
10/3/08 at 11:15am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

FWIW, a few years ago I was left a pleasant little sum when my aunt died, which was large enough to pay off my mortgage. Every financial expert I spoke to said not to pay off the mortgage but to invest it in something safe but profitable like index funds. And indeed on paper this looked like the better option.

But something nagged in the back of my brain that shares couldn't carry on going up for ever, and even if it wasn't sensible on paper to pay off the mortgage, there was something wonderfully satisfying about the thought of being debt free.

So I paid off the mortgage and started saving what had been my mortgage payments into index funds. And at the first sign of them performing badly, I put them into tax-free ISAs (don't know if you have a US equivalent; basically, it's a tax free savings scheme that gives you very preferential rates provided you save consistently and don't dip into it frequently). I also increased my pension contributions (again, not taxed under UK law).

So I save about a quarter of my gross income (going to increase this a little more as the kids near college age) and enjoy the rest. I also don't have any debts, unless someone offers an interest free loan (when you're an idiot to refuse if you have the money to meet the repayments, because allowing for inflation you actually pay less than the asking price for the product you're buying). We have credit cards, simply because they're convenient, but they are paid off in full each and every month.

So I guess I haven't changed my behaviour in response to the latest financial crisis because I'd sooner follow a system that is reasonably climate-proof and doesn't need changing.

Quote:
Who wrote this garbage?
I thought he was being sarcastic and found it quite funny. He's not serious, is he?
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post #188 of 432
10/3/08 at 1:01pm
Thread Starter 

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

I've been thinking about my original question: am I changing my behavior due to apparent economic troubles? Intellectually, I feel that I should. But I am not.

In fact, my spending has increased.

In large part, my finances have already been scrubbed. After getting married two years ago, we sorted out our finances and budgeted for savings and for the big expenses like vacations and furniture. We found our compromises on luxury and frugality. Today, there's nothing reasonable left to reduce. We aren't in "pain" and aren't motivated to cut things like going out to dinner, internet access, or vacation.

On top of that, I'm busier than I've ever been at work, and am ahead of budget for the year, so I splurged on a video game system and will get my wife a new camera this Fall.

And talking around, I'm finding people saying similar things to me and everyone here. People have their own "local economy" as someone observed much earlier. A friend, recently divorced, is feeling economic pain and is tightening her belt. But that's the pain of a divorce, regardless of a credit crisis. Another friend is moonlighting to pay for day care, but again that would have been the case five years ago. Everyone else is on their budget, maybe cutting a little to compensate for higher gas.

As I said to my Toastmasters club, in actual life -- not worrying about news reports -- I don't see any economic pain. My area is not suffering home foreclosures or neighborhood collapses. Aside from doom and gloom news, life is the same as a year ago.
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post #189 of 432
10/3/08 at 2:10pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Seems pretty much the case here in Oklahoma too Dave. I do have a friend who's house took a year to sell, because people wanted to play real low ball. My friends realter told her it due to things people have seen on the news, and not because of a housing slump in our area.
Homes in Tulsa are generally a long term investment anyway. In the development we live in, upper middle class, they are building fast and furious on phase 3 and 4. That would be about 100 new homes in our development. And of course, thats just ours alone! So houses are still selling, just a little slower.
People in Tulsa love to go out and eat. We still do, and its still busy when we go out for supper...no change.
I did notice Best Buy was selling DVDs at full retail. Not all of them for sure, but some DVD TV box sets were marked for full price. That is something new i was surprised to see. But stuff thats on sale seemed to be moving good. Even Blu-rays that were sale priced were gone, or only had one or two left. I got When We Left Earth on Blu, at BB, for $34, a really good price! They only had one more left, so someone must be buying it. Yea, i am pretty sure they had more than 2, cause in the new release section, it had a sale tag, and the row was empty. I found mine in the Blu-ray section, also had a tag, and only the 2 copies.

But like i have said before, it doesnt cost us $7000 a month for a mortgage on a house that should have payments of $1000, or less!
We watch a lot of My House is Worth What?, Designed to Sell, and House Hunters at our house.
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post #190 of 432
10/3/08 at 10:01pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew markworthy

I thought he was being sarcastic and found it quite funny. He's not serious, is he?

He (or she) is entirely serious. It is the kind of thing I would expect Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, or Anne Coulter to spout.
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post #191 of 432
10/3/08 at 10:41pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

People are going to do what they want to do no matter what happens in the economy it hard to change lifestyles. I personally wish I brought a hybrid i hate spending so much on gas.
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post #192 of 432
10/4/08 at 5:52am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsyGirl
People are going to do what they want to do no matter what happens in the economy it hard to change lifestyles.
If you read back through this thread, you'll find examples of people who did change lifestyles. They may be the exception, but the exceptions are going to become more common over the next few years.

If nothing else, lost jobs, bankruptcies and foreclosures have a way of forcing change on people. You may not see them happening to people you know, but they're happening.

Dave, you may not see any more changes to make now in your own life, but that's hardly surprising. Anyone thoughtful enough to start this thread is probably way ahead of the curve.

M.
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post #193 of 432
10/4/08 at 8:38am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
He (or she) is entirely serious. It is the kind of thing I would expect Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, or Anne Coulter to spout.


It wasn't any of them, and even if it were it would not negate the merit of the observation.
The math is quite simple; in order to have a bad loan you need to have a bad borrower. Lots of bad loans = lots of bad borrowers. Nobody forced them to take the loans - each one of them asked for a loan and voluntarily agreed to the terms of the loan they received. The blame falls not only on the lender, but also quite squarely on the borrow.

Selective blame may soothe people's sensitivities, but it does little for finding a solution.


.
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post #194 of 432
10/4/08 at 8:44am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Dup post
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post #195 of 432
10/7/08 at 1:49pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Um... it's been some 2 business days since the bailout was signed into law, and Wall St doesn't seem too impressed so can we cancel the check and get our money back?

--
H
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post #196 of 432
10/7/08 at 2:08pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Um... it's been some 2 business days since the bailout was signed into law, and Wall St doesn't seem too impressed so can we cancel the check and get our money back?
If you're referring to the stock market, the bailout was never designed to prop it up, although that was certainly a hoped-for side effect.

The markets won't stabilize until there's a great deal less uncertainty in the world, and that requires much more than the passage of a bill.

M.
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post #197 of 432
10/7/08 at 3:13pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Here is the new head of the "Office of Financial Stability" (managing the $700bil fund)
Bio Box: Neel Kashkari: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance


... and here he is in his prior attempts to take over the world...


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post #198 of 432
10/7/08 at 3:22pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Another former Goldman Sachs flunky. I figured so, even before looking at his `bio`. Unbelievable. I wonder when average Americans are finally going to get their fill of this garbage.
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post #199 of 432
10/7/08 at 3:31pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Another former Goldman Sachs flunky. I figured so, even before looking at his `bio`. Unbelievable. I wonder when average Americans are finally going to get their fill of this garbage.
More Edwin-S bile. I figured as much, even before reading the post.

OK, wise guy. You still haven't answered my question from the Gone Baby Gone thread; so here's another one you can work on.

Who, exactly, should get the job? I'm not expecting a name, but what should the background be? Where do you find someone who has sufficient expertise and hands-on knowledge of the credit markets and the intricacies of the debt instruments that have gummed up the works to oversee the workout process?

Take your time. We're not going anywhere.

M.

P.S. Eric, no help. He gets no lifelines on this one.
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post #200 of 432
10/7/08 at 3:59pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

LOL, Eric!
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post #201 of 432
10/7/08 at 9:25pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
More Edwin-S bile. I figured as much, even before reading the post.

OK, wise guy. You still haven't answered my question from the Gone Baby Gone thread; so here's another one you can work on.

Who, exactly, should get the job? I'm not expecting a name, but what should the background be? Where do you find someone who has sufficient expertise and hands-on knowledge of the credit markets and the intricacies of the debt instruments that have gummed up the works to oversee the workout process?

Take your time. We're not going anywhere.

M.

P.S. Eric, no help. He gets no lifelines on this one.

Preferably, someone who knows credit markets and has no connection to a company that was one of the players in this disaster. But, hey, I guess there is no one else in the entire vast financial industry or financial education field with the knowledge to manage this fund, other than one of Paulson's Goldman Sachs pals.

Also, if hadn't been for the "geniuses" at "banks" like Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, etc., there wouldn't be these wonderful debt instruments gumming up the works. It just goes to show what a criminal sideshow the financial industry really is when you have to employ the same people to pull the wrench out of the works when they were ones who threw it there in the first place.
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post #202 of 432
10/7/08 at 10:17pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Preferably, someone who knows credit markets . . .
Great answer. How long that did take, considering that it was contained within the question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
. . . and has no connection to a company that was one of the players in this disaster
Since most people with expertise in the field have done a stint, at one time or another, at one of these firms, you've just knocked out a huge array of potentially talented candidates. Is there a good reason to do so (other than bigotry)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
But, hey, I guess there is no one else in the entire vast financial industry or financial education field with the knowledge to manage this fund, other than one of Paulson's Goldman Sachs pals.
There may be lots of people, but here's another factor to consider: We're in a crisis. How much time should be taken to review resumes and interview candidates? One week? Two? A month?

Also, is it completely accurate to call this guy a "Goldman Sachs pal"? Isn't he now a "government pal"? He's been in the Treasury Department for the last two years, when he could have been collecting big bonuses on Wall Street (remember, Paulson already made his money).

BTW, I don't know this guy or anything about him, beyond what's in the bio. I just find it remarkable that, once again, you've got the bottom line answer with complete certainty, scant information and minimal reflection. Far too much of our public discourse has been conducted that way lately. As an "average American", that's what I've truly had my fill of.

M.
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post #203 of 432
10/7/08 at 11:44pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
Great answer. How long that did take, considering that it was contained within the question? [

I was out for a few hours. Also, you guys have rules here regarding these types of discussions. I have to be careful when formulating an answer, even one that you think was obvious. I don't want to go so far as to get a thread shut down by getting too political and it can be quite hard to decide what would be considered too political when it comes to this site. I had formulated another answer but had to keep editing it because it felt like it could easily be going over the line. I've even stronger feelings about this mess than I have expressed in my posts so I have to be careful not to go too far.

Quote:
Since most people with expertise in the field have done a stint, at one time or another, at one of these firms, you've just knocked out a huge array of potentially talented candidates. Is there a good reason to do so (other than bigotry)?

Admittedly, there is not. I just get suspicious when the talent that is now going to save the country from a mess comes from the same pool of talent that caused the mess in the first place. I don't trust Bankers at the best of times and certainly not the type of banker that inhabits Wall Street (or Bay Street) investment banks. I certainly don't trust Paulson and that means I'm not about to trust any decision that he makes. If that makes me a bigot so be it.

Quote:
There may be lots of people, but here's another factor to consider: We're in a crisis. How much time should be taken to review resumes and interview candidates? One week? Two? A month?

Yes. Funny about that crisis. Just a few days ago the sky was falling and the administration was bellowing that if the bailout wasn't passed immediately the economy would suffer catastrophic failure. Now that they got what they want the tone has changed to "well, it is going to take some time to get all this into motion. People need to be patient". All of suddenly the alarmist note seems to have been toned down, so I see no reason why they could not have taken some time to consider a number of candidates for the position.

Quote:
Also, is it completely accurate to call this guy a "Goldman Sachs pal"? Isn't he now a "government pal"? He's been in the Treasury Department for the last two years, when he could have been collecting big bonuses on Wall Street (remember, Paulson already made his money).

BTW, I don't know this guy or anything about him, beyond what's in the bio. I just find it remarkable that, once again, you've got the bottom line answer with complete certainty, scant information and minimal reflection. Far too much of our public discourse has been conducted that way lately. As an "average American", that's what I've truly had my fill of.

M.

Any further answer would only be polluting the public discourse with unreflective commentary. Sorry if I don't see in shades of grey which seems to be the preferred color nowadays. I have my views on the above but you don't like what I've said already so there is no point in continuing.

Edit: After re-reading the third paragraph, I realize that I have made a bad assumption in that it looks like they may not have considered other candidates. Of course, it is likely that they did. The only real problem that I have with this appointment is that it looks like a former Goldman Sachs boy looking out for another Goldman Sachs boy. It just looks like impropriety, even if it wasn't meant to be.
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post #204 of 432
10/7/08 at 11:58pm

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Sorry if I don't see in shades of grey which seems to be the preferred color nowadays.
If by "shades of grey", you're referring to the fact that the world is a complicated place and that easy answers are usually the wrong ones, then yeah, that's my preferred color. Proud to wear it.

M.
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post #205 of 432
10/8/08 at 12:17am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Deleted

Edit: Asked the question as a jest, but figured it could raise hackles. It didn't have any relevance anyway.
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post #206 of 432
10/8/08 at 4:31am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Preferably, someone who knows credit markets and has no connection to a company that was one of the players in this disaster. But, hey, I guess there is no one else in the entire vast financial industry or financial education field with the knowledge to manage this fund, other than one of Paulson's Goldman Sachs pals.

Also, if hadn't been for the "geniuses" at "banks" like Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, etc., there wouldn't be these wonderful debt instruments gumming up the works. It just goes to show what a criminal sideshow the financial industry really is when you have to employ the same people to pull the wrench out of the works when they were ones who threw it there in the first place.

Scapegoating a few companies - or an entire industry - is a woefully inaccurate and simplistic definition of the problem - it would be like blaming a hurricane on the gulf stream... There are multiple ingredients in a storm - warm oceans, cool air, low atmospheric pressure and other variables of which many are still unknown. (not to mention the people/responders reacting to a storm) A financial storm has similarities. The causes of this one include; irresponsible, greedy, and fraudulent borrowers; low interest rates and easy monetary policies; political pressure to make questionable loans; lack of congressional oversight and accountability; unscrupulous loan officers; overly complex securitization of loans; implied backing of FNMA/FHLMC instruments by the government; herd mentality of investors; lax underwriting standards; unregulated 'swap' markets; and a hoard of unknowns that may never be understood (just like natural storms).

As you can see - lumping the problem squarely on the shoulders of 'Investment Bankers' is frightening simplistic. Oversimplifying the problem could result in more damage than the problem itself.

Congress shares part of the blame - yet I don't see you uncomfortable with them being a major part of the solution. What about the homeowners who sold at 'inflated' prices - should they give the 'excess' gains back? (That is, after all, where all the 'missing' real estate money went)

Suggesting that people other than bankers be responsible for fixing a banking crisis would be like hiring someone other than plumbers to fix the pipes in your house - even if the problem was caused by other bad plumbers. The key is finding the right plumber, reviewing their proposal, and then watching over their shoulder.

I have no idea if High Priest Imhotep (Kashkari - lol "Cash Carry") is not the right man for the job. I have been watching with intense interest how the emergency responders have been reacting. I've been most impressed so far with everyone. The two exceptions would be the American public who essentially said "I'm not scared of this hurricane - I'm staying right here in Galvaston" about the emergency funding bill. (In spite of all the warnings of the approaching storm) The other would be the House of Reps who squandered the opportunity to restore confidence and instead played politics until they were forced to pass a more expensive bill - not to restore confidence - but to avoid losing even more. What nimrods. Much of the current volatility is caused by a lack of confidence and much of that now rests on their shoulders.

Ultimately we know that this will work out - the question now is how fast. I've spoken with many analysts and many believe it will be a slow and gradual recovery (healthy and with much less leverage). A handful of others believe there will be a 'V' shaped rebound preceding the slow recovery. None of them know when it will begin - but most feel we are closer the bottom than the middle. Most say we are 6mo to a year away. Some disagree.

I feel that jobs and employees are something that most Americans and their employers have taken for granted. We've seen people abuse their relationships with their employers as much as employers have abused relationships with employees - if not more. I also think that companies have taken customers for granted for far too long. Maybe when this is all over Americans will be more responsible with their jobs and companies will be more accountable to their customers and employees. Maybe.
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post #207 of 432
10/8/08 at 5:23am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Suggesting that people other than bankers be responsible for fixing a banking crisis would be like hiring someone other than plumbers to fix the pipes in your house - even if the problem was caused by other bad plumbers. The key is finding the right plumber, reviewing their proposal, and then watching over their shoulder

Good line.

I think we haven't heard much in the way of blaming homeowners/borrowers due to the fact we're approaching an election, and candidates are not normally looking to offend voters -- no matter how much they deserve it.
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post #208 of 432
10/8/08 at 5:28am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

1. Why has no one figured out that simply paying off my primary mortgage for me would suddenly free up lots cash and make the economy magically chug to life, and...

2. What happened to the topic of this thread?







MC
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post #209 of 432
10/8/08 at 8:12am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Funny about that crisis. Just a few days ago the sky was falling and the administration was bellowing that if the bailout wasn't passed immediately the economy would suffer catastrophic failure. Now that they got what they want the tone has changed to "well, it is going to take some time to get all this into motion. People need to be patient". All of suddenly the alarmist note seems to have been toned down, so I see no reason why they could not have taken some time to consider a number of candidates for the position.
Eric has done a nice job addressing the bulk of your comments, but this one particularly sticks in my craw, because it's such utter nonsense. It doesn't at all reflect either what was said or the reality of the situation.

It's always been obvious -- to anyone who bothered to pay attention -- that this mess would take time to sort out. It was also obvious that action had to begin immediately. Action couldn't begin until there was a plan and a package in place. So the urgency was to pass the bailout, appropriate the money, and establish the powers and oversight so that the work could begin. And now it's going to take some time.

To use an imperfect analogy: If I told you I wanted you to design and build me a kick-ass, state-of-the-art home theater system, you couldn't start until I gave you some money. Then you'd have to study the space, design a system, order components, plan construction and do the installation.

But if I showed up the day after giving you my check with my Iron Man Blu-ray in hand expecting to be dazzled by the system, you'd look at me like I was crazy. Which is about the right reaction to the comment quoted above.

The reason it's an imperfect analogy is that a home theater system isn't a matter of life and death. Here it's more like installing a sprinkler system for a house that's already on fire. And your solution is to sit in the living room and interview a few dozen installers because you think they're all ripoff artists.

M.

P.S. Your postscript is noted. I'm sure they did run through a list, with relevant experience and immediate availability being the two top criteria.
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post #210 of 432
10/8/08 at 8:13am

Re: Are you changing your behavior in response to current events?

They can't pay off your mortgage Micah, because I don't have one and that wouldn't be "Fair"! Seems now a days everything has to be fair.....
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