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Taxes are all about politics.
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Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
As opposed to what -- "estate" tax?
 The FICA and Medicare examples I gave should have made it clear that I was talking about "income". |
| It also left out the AMT, which would require the sixth through ninth guys to recalculate their shares and, in many instances, pay more... |
| ...the tax system in this country, with its complex interaction between federal and state taxing jurisdictions, is just too sophisticated to be reduced to the type of "excellent [but necessarily over-simplified] example" set forth above. M. |
) I never expected everyone here to feel the same. Since you brought it up, however, I will also opine that I think the tax code is actually quite simple for the increasingly enigmatic "middle class." It's the rich and the poor among us [relatively speaking] that have options. The rest of us just get it forced down our throats.
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Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
Come on guys, let's get back to discussing the bunker mentality we all need to adopt.
Taxes are all about politics. |
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Originally Posted by DaveF
Perhaps in response to the economic worries, my dad gave me the unsolicited advice to sell my house. It's a new neighborhood; my house was built four years ago. I think it's complete, the last two houses under construction.
My dad expressed concern about early signs of homeowners not taking care of their property and, I infer, a general notion that I should get out while the gettin's good. And I think back to when my parents sold the house I grew up in, during a down local economy, and their house was on the market my entire freshmen year in college. And I wonder if he's right. Or if he's overly worried about the present economy. |
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Originally Posted by John Dirk
Don't know where you live Dave, but I can't think of a market where it's a good idea to sell a house these days. Although I understand what your Dad is saying, those are reasons not to buy in the first place, but not reasons to sell. I think you have to ride it out this time.
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Originally Posted by Micah
Should we change the title of this thread? The focus has somewhat shifted, no? (Not in a bad way.)
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Originally Posted by Micah Cohen
Should we change the title of this thread? The focus has somewhat shifted, no? (Not in a bad way.)
MC |
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Originally Posted by andrew markworthy
One of the best comments on the situation that I've read is that if a lot of the senior investment bankers lose their jobs through their own greed and incompetence, the simple fact is that they have such vast bank balances that they can live in luxury beyond any normal person's dreams for the rest of their days and leave a legacy of offspring who can behave like rich brats without any need to work for decades to come.
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Originally Posted by andrew markworthy
The people who suffer most are the ordinary Joes and Jos whose livelihoods depend on these clowns. All the store owners, the dog walkers, the cleaners, the hairdressers, etc. Plus, the bank workers on the lower rungs who simply did their job and weren't responsible for the decisions made at the top, who now will find themselves unemployed as banks get taken over or downsized.
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| Two weeks ago, I was overseas and called my assistant back in New Hampshire to find out what was up. And, after all the tedious business stuff, she mentioned that she'd gone into our general store just before closing and was surprised to find that behind the counter, working the evening shift, was our bank manager (of one of these First National Bank of Dead Skunk Junction-type banks). "Oh," explained Shelley [name ever so slightly changed to spare her blushes]. "I went crazy with the spending, and figured I could use some extra cash to dig myself out of the hole." At first, I was a bit unsettled by this news. When a global conglomerate such as myself is selecting a banker, it's not generally looking for one who finds herself having to supplement her income with minimum-wage check-out shifts. But, upon reflection, after Lehman Bros, AIG, Wachovia and a week of will-they-won't-they Bailout Fever, I wish our gal's spirit was reflected a little more widely within her profession and those who regulate it. You go, girl. |
| First National Bank of Dead Skunk Junction |
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Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
No, it's not how our tax system works. It's one of those grossly oversimplified parables that people tell when they're lobbying for a particular change.
In truth, the tax system is so complicated that no such story could adequately capture it, and the very choice of how to construct such a story is highly loaded. Take this example: If these guys truly paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, all of them would pay something, because even the lowest earners pay FICA and Medicare. Only the highest earners earn enough for FICA to kick out, and only those whose income derives from sources other than wages escape payments for Medicare. Somehow, whenever you see one of those calculations about how the rich pay the biggest share of tax, that part of the equation is always left out. It sounds good in the parables. In reality it doesn't happen. However, this is not a tax debate. This thread is about the current economic crisis (if it is one, a subject about which questions have been raised). Tax-cutting or -raising diatribes are not the issue (not yet). M. |
| If they open a branch here, I'll be first in line. |
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Originally Posted by Steve_Tk
I didn't write that, I copied the entire thing from an email.
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Originally Posted by Dennis Nicholls
I'll bet they feature Chuck Jones cartoon characters on their checks.
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Originally Posted by andrew markworthy
One of the best comments on the situation that I've read is that if a lot of the senior investment bankers lose their jobs through their own greed and incompetence, the simple fact is that they have such vast bank balances that they can live in luxury beyond any normal person's dreams for the rest of their days and leave a legacy of offspring who can behave like rich brats without any need to work for decades to come.
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| The people who suffer most are the ordinary Joes and Jos whose livelihoods depend on these clowns. All the store owners, the dog walkers, the cleaners, the hairdressers, etc. Plus, the bank workers on the lower rungs who simply did their job and weren't responsible for the decisions made at the top, who now will find themselves unemployed as banks get taken over or downsized. |
| I was reading about the British banking troubles. Some of your high-flyers are being hurt by this. At least one of them had the common decency to kill himself, unlike any of his American compatriots. |
| And yet we hear people making these same complaints every day |
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Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
There's some truth there, but only for the very top people. Just below the top, although vast sums were made, they're not enough to establish dynasties. It's a young demographic, frequently with a young family and big expenses, both current and future. I live in a building and zip code heavily populated by that group, and there are a lot of spooked people in my neighborhood these days.
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Originally Posted by DaveF
I'm curious what they consider "vast sums" but still too little to alleviate worrying? Anyone who's earned $3M+ over the past few years can quit and live a middle / upper-middle lifestyle for the rest of their lives without working.
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Originally Posted by DaveF
I'm curious what they consider "vast sums" but still too little to alleviate worrying? Anyone who's earned $3M+ over the past few years can quit and live a middle / upper-middle lifestyle for the rest of their lives without working.
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| I can assure you that the lifestyle accompanying it sucks up money like you wouldn't believe |
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Originally Posted by andrew markworthy
One of the best comments on the situation that I've read is that if a lot of the senior investment bankers lose their jobs through their own greed and incompetence, the simple fact is that they have such vast bank balances that they can live in luxury beyond any normal person's dreams for the rest of their days and leave a legacy of offspring who can behave like rich brats without any need to work for decades to come. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Joes and Jos whose livelihoods depend on these clowns. All the store owners, the dog walkers, the cleaners, the hairdressers, etc. Plus, the bank workers on the lower rungs who simply did their job and weren't responsible for the decisions made at the top, who now will find themselves unemployed as banks get taken over or downsized.
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Originally Posted by andrew markworthy
I can well believe it, from my limited experience of the world of the filthy rich (I've a couple of college friends who are loaded and from rich families, and their spending habits are ludicrous).
However, I think we need to look at what's so expensive about their lifestyles: (1) on moral grounds, there's a lot that's simply totally unecessary. E.g. you don't have to have your own jet, eat in only the most expensive restaurants, belong to expensive clubs, etc, to have an enjoyably lifestyle. (2) on financial grounds, to some extent the huge costs of properties, schooling, etc, have been generated by these people themselves. In essence, they've priced everyone else out of the market by buying their exclusivity. If they now suffer as a consequence, then in many respects they've only got themselves to blame. |
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Originally Posted by andrew markworthy
(1) on moral grounds, there's a lot that's simply totally unecessary. E.g. you don't have to have your own jet, eat in only the most expensive restaurants, belong to expensive clubs, etc, to have an enjoyably lifestyle.
(2) on financial grounds, to some extent the huge costs of properties, schooling, etc, have been generated by these people themselves. In essence, they've priced everyone else out of the market by buying their exclusivity. If they now suffer as a consequence, then in many respects they've only got themselves to blame. |
