Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far - Page 33

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I think it was in Cinefex that I read that for Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, the "REPUBLIC OF HATAY" subtitle for a matte shot was burned right into the original element used to shoot the painting, in order to save a generation. I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same thing for the Genesis shot.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

What is the "correct sound mix"?

I do not know the extent of what changed in the director's cut audio wise, but I much prefer the original sound effects for the "red alert" and the v'ger plasma weapons.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

wasn't it PIXAR who did the GENESIS planet fx?

aaanywho, i warned all ya'lls =). having seen the trek films on BD now, i still say it's a wee bit better than the HD broadcast caps i put up... but NOT BY MUCH! wrath of kahn definitely looks better... but man did they waste an opportunity. gonna wait for the next product skus =).

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The correct sound mix for Star Trek TMP is the one on the Director's Edition DVD that Robert Wise supervised in 2001. Wise says on the inset booklet "In addition to finding a new, and I feel, proper editorial balance for the film, we have also completed those effects shots and scenes which we had to abort in 1979, and have given the film a proper final sound mix."

Wise makes clear that the film that was released in 1979 was never properly finished, since they were in a dead rush to get it into theaters on time. The sound mix as heard in the Director's Edition incorporates material that was created and assembled for TMP, but couldn't be mixed in with the time they had. All sorts of things were left out that should have been there, particularly the sounds intended for Vejur's transmission to the Enterprise and Spock's response transmission. In the theatrical cut, there are no sounds for these, even though Spock is pressing a button to indicate one should be there. In the Director's Edition, you can finally hear the appropriate sounds. Another example is the Klingon bridge scene, where Wise's cut includes sound effects for the various displays, particularly as the torpedoes are destroyed.

Once you can actually hear the mix that Wise intended, the earlier mix doesn't hold up nearly as well. I understand the value of having a copy of the theatrical cut and its mix for archival purposes, but I'll be happier to have the Wise version once it gets released in a couple of years. I'll also be happy to see the print of Wise's cut of TMP completely remastered for 1080p - I believe that this will be part of the selling point for the Blu-ray when it comes.)

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

That's interesting. I didn't realize so many other effects were added to the director's cut. I still much prefer the sound of those two items I mentioned on the theatrical release. I also have to disagree on the theatrical mix not holding up well. It is incredibly robust and enveloping on the Blu-Ray. Since I don't miss the director's cut additions, I don't feel cheated in any way on the earlier mix. Now if I can get the director's additional effects without changing the two effects I like, then we can have another George Luca.....err.....you know what I mean.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Is comparing the True HD 7.1 track from the new Blu-ray of Trek I,
to the DD 5.1 track of the Director's cut fair?

Yes we can disagree about certain particular sound FX but as for the overall sound tracks---I'd have to hear a True HD 7.1 of the Director's cut to say which 'sounds better'.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Okay, we can compare the DD 5.1 on the director's cut DVD to the PCM Dolby Surround on my laserdisc. I would still prefer the original soundtrack.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Thanks for the responses about the audio mix on TMP. So are the sound effects, computer voices the same as the VHS theatrical, Director's Cut or a new blend all together?

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Should be the same as your VHS.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

What became Pixar, but was at the time still the computer division of Lucasfilm, produced the Genesis Planet demonstration film. It was among the very first computer generated images ever used in a feature film.

The shot we are talking about with the burned in title, is the shot of the Grissom approaching the Genesis Planet in Star Trek 3.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I definitely prefer the original soundtrack and am very, very happy to have it faithfully rendered on the blu ray. I generally liked the directors cut mix, but the changing of the alarms/alerts and the computer voices really bothered me since I was used to how they sounded for 20 years. Plus they remixed some of the music and it sounded noticably different.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

re: director's cut, furthermore, there are a lot of scenes shortened to heighten tension. it's not just added audio or extended CG scenes and what not, it is truly a "director's cut" in every sense. i much prefer it because of those reasons. it's finally "finished" according to wise, not in the french connection sort of way, but in a good sort of way =)

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Correct. His director's cut is in no way a revisionist exercise.
They had no chance to test it, preview or even watch the whole thing for themselves and the studio. The print was still wet when they delivered it for the Dec 6 premiere showing in Washington.

There is no way --NONE that they would have left those overlong boring flybys 100% intact if they had previewed it or tested it.


It's guaranteed that a lot of test audience people would have said it was too slow-moving and they would have tightened it up. Others would have complained there wasn't enough character driven stuff and they would have added back Spock crying, Kirk's destruct sequence & the post-Kirk bridge dialogue with Uhura & Sulu after Kirk first comes aboard.

Enjoy the theatrical version, but don't dismiss the Director's cut or say it's an inferior version. Regardless of of few audio bits and computor voice-overs it is a far superior movie.

And this is coming from someone who saw the theatrical version 7 TIMES in 1979-80.
We thought It'd be the last new Trek we'd ever see in our life!!
Okay I was off on that a bit.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

^^^
Agreed. As one who saw this in the theater originally and all the home video versions that came after, I prefer the DC by far.

I've decided to hold off on this purchase for the time being.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

You guys have said it well regarding the Robert Wise Directors Cut version. I prefer it too.

One thing I was surprised by. I had not watched the theatrical cut on the laser disc in a long time. So it was interesting to watch the blu ray. It actually wasn't that boring. I know this movie as well you guys. The long stretches through the V'Ger cloud was not boring likely because the imagery looked so sharp and vibrant with colors that are so muted on the DC.

When the Enterprise is brought into that first V'Ger chamber, I was amazed by the amount of detail that went into that model. So much surface texture was put on it!

As far as the sounds, I was struck, but have not gone back to compare, by how the new audio track is stronger and of course is spread out more. It may be the same as the laserdisc, but reprocessed for the 7.1 and downmixed 5.1 that I heard.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I don't think anyone said that.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Could be wrong, but I thought Wise said these things didn't make it into the 79 movie only because they didn't have the cutaways/ coverage (on the viewscreen and of the ship) to smoothly cut in and out of those scenes? Then, the director's cut had these new shots to make it possible...
Either way, I loved watching the theatrical version a LOT more than I thought I would, and it looks pretty great to my eyes.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I for one LOVED "those overlong boring fly bys". They are beautiful and majestic.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I think it's possible that Wise felt he didn't have enough coverage to include the additional dialogue, but I think it's more likely that he simply didn't have the time to think about his edit, and had to literally just drop the VFX in and get the prints made.

When you look at those scenes now, there are no cutaways that I could see - just the same shots we finally saw in the TV cut, only with a tighter pacing.

Of course, Wise did drop one bit of dialogue that I always liked in the longer footage - where McCoy comments that Vejur thinks its creator is a machine and Decker says "Of course, we all create God in our own image."

Wise's cut is actually longer than the theatrical cut, but feels shorter.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I have to agree. The differences between the original 79 theatrical cut and the directors cut really demonstrate what a skilled editor can do. The two versions are actually not all that radically different, but the director's cut doesn't seem to drag like the theatrical.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Now, if only the skilled editor had been editing Nemesis instead of directing...

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Touche!

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Re: TMP runtime:
Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979)
132 min | USA:136 min (director's cut) | USA:143 min (TV version)

has any1 watched the TV cut? i'm assuming 143min. doesn't include commercials.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The "TV cut" is the Special Longer Version that was available on VHS for years.

No, because if it did a) it would be a rounder figure; and b) the resulting movie would be about a half-hour shorter than the theatrical cut.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

As far as the live-action footage of TMP is concerned..........

The theatrical has what it has.

The 'TV version' has 12 minutes of added 'live-action footage' --no new FX

The Director's cut has @ 4 of the 12 minutes from the TV version included (along with some new FX of course) and deletes a bit of live action from the theatrical as well as cutting out (or replacing) some of the theatricals original FX.

The general consesus was that some of the additional 'not-used-in-the Director's cut' live action stuff from the TV version was a little cheesy or unneccessary or slowed the movie too much.

All of the unused 8 minutes from the TV version are included as an extra on the TMP Director's cut so you can judge for yourself. Also are included is what was cut from theatrical.

But as far as the stuff cut from the theatrical shown as deleted in the SD Director's edition-----not all that they show was actually cut. They include some of the 'still included' footage as a frame so you get the feel for how the original played.

I've heard people say, "They cut a minute from the Klingon part at the begining!!"

They did not. They cut a total of 7 or 8 seconds on the Klingon bridge and rearanged some shots.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Also because there re no audio differences and no FX changes between the theatrical and TV version they could easily have done branching between those two versions.

That would have been an incentive to me at least to pick up the 6 movie box set.

Since there is no chance of branching between the TV version and the Director's cut---it's likely that this least known and least liked version is lost to Blu-ray/DVD forever.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The TV version of TMP is by no means a polished version. All they did was drop in 9 minutes of cut footage, at times with some Goldsmith music tracked over it. One of the scenes they dropped in was the original version of Kirk leaving the ship to follow Spock, and since the VFX were never done for that shot, you can see the small set area with Shatner surrounded by the wooden frame of the set, and the ceiling of the soundstage!!! Other bits that got dropped included a whole bunch of technobabble that gets yelled back and forth on the bridge while the first plasma bolt is incoming. (I believe this was intended as cutaway footage to heighten the tension, but dropped in wholesale like this, it becomes comic.)

There are audio differences in the TV version in that scenes had to be extended, and the music near the end got tracked over those extensions.

And you can actually see a bunch of this footage on the Blu-ray, in the deleted scenes section. So this version isn't completely lost. Seeing those scenes in context is no boon to the movie, in all honesty.

Wise's 2001 cut of the film tightened a lot of things. I believe he cut somewhere around 2-3 minutes from the theatrical cut, mostly from the longer POV shots of the Enterprise going through the cloud and many odds and ends. The Klingon bridge scene was tightened by Wise to make the Klingon commander more aggressive. Repetitive lines got cut. (Kirk's second "Viewer off!" after Epsilon 9 gets wiped out, Kirk's "Oh my God" in the Transporter Room, Chekov stating the obvious after the wormhole bit "We're out of it!", and of course, Kirk saying "A machine? Vejur! VEJUR!" to the Ilia Probe and then just standing there angry. This line didn't make sense without the other deleted line of Decker and McCoy confirming that Vejur thinks its creator/God is a machine.) In exchange, Wise added back some material - the complete first bridge scene with the original cast arguing with the new lieutenant about Kirk v Decker, the opening of the McCoy beamup scene with a lieutenant commenting that Bones refused to beam up with them, and most crucially, the climactic material of Kirk preparing to self destruct and Spock openly showing emotion for his "brother". And Wise was able to complete the VFX work he had always wanted to be in the movie.

As another note, one technical dialogue fix in Wise's cut that I appreciated had to do with Epsilon 9 Commander Branch's description of the size of the Vejur cloud. He describes the size in terms of AUs, which is a measure of the distance from the Earth to the Sun. In Wise's cut, he says that the cloud measures "over TWO AUs in diameter, must be something incredible inside there generating it." But in the unfinished theatrical cut, he says, it measures "over EIGHTY-TWO AUs". Let's see, 82 times the distance from the Earth to the Sun. That's one BIIIGGG cloud... Nitpicking, yes, but I'm glad they fixed it.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The P&S NTSC Laserdisc was I believe the 143 min cut which included most if not all the extended TV cut. I used to own this but sold it many years ago although remember the sets being slightly noticeable when Kirk does his spacewalk!!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

There was a laserdisc available of the TV cut as well as the theatrical version. The TV cut was only available in pan & scan, just as you say, while the theatrical version was available both ways.

The TV cut laserdisc had the complete extended TV cut, as did the VHS edition, which I still have.

I kept my VHS tapes of the theatrical and TV cuts after getting the Wise cut on DVD. Why? Because I'm a packrat. I'm beginning to think we should open up a forum in here for all of us packrats. You know, we can all get together for a live chat about our issues. Hi, my name is Kevin and I'm a packrat.... (Room responds "Hi Kevin!" and off we go...)