Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far - Page 20

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

More than that in the Special Collector's Edition (even ignoring the aspect ratio alterations).

But SCE changes aside, going back to the VHS/original DVD material--given Paramount's unwillingness to pay for the ST:TMP DE material in a high-def-ready resolution, it wouldn't surprise me if they only have the added scenes in standard-def format, with the original clips buried somewhere in their vaults. It's a boneheaded move, but not one that would surprise me.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I haven't seen anyone say that or anything like it. They are releasing the theatrical cut (and not the director's cut) and in this case, that version runs 3 minutes shorter.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

^^^I agree. That was where the greedy or inept part of it is.

Either they had the original film elements buried so deep and were unable to dig them out and clean them up in time for this release (inept) OR

they were more readily available but they just are holding them back until they sell this first batch and then they will hit us with the double-dip (greedy)

For the DE of Trek 1 & the CE edition of Trek 6 they DID dig into their vaults and retrive some film elements.

For Trek 1 they dug out a shot they needed of Ilia that Wise wanted and in

Trek 6 they dug out alternate takes of Shatner & Brock Peters for an bonus extra about the editing process.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper
I just can't bring myself to purchase a version of the movie that's SHORTER than the version I've been watching for 18 years. That's the version that I think of as official (And Meyer prefers it as well)
And please don't say, "big deal--it's only 3 minutes." If you don't think 3 1/2 minutes of a movie make a difference--you're a dunce. No offense.

Quote:
by TravisR
I haven't seen anyone say that or anything like it. They are releasing the theatrical cut (and not the director's cut) and in this case, that version runs 3 minutes shorter




I have seen many folks in different forums say that '3 minutes doesn't matter'

But I was responding to the other person who was talking about people getting used to a version and then they change it and come with a 'new' version and it ruins the experience.

I made it clear that the version that 99% of people have been seeing and remembering for the past 18 years IS the director's cut and with this release they will be seeing some different AND shorter.

Let us say that they discover that a classic movie from the 30s, 40s or 50s originally ran several minutes shorter during it theatrical run. And the version that has been seen for decades on TV and video runs longer. Would it make sense to then cut out the footage that wasn't seen in its theatrical run decades ago and ONLY offer the new shorter version?

No, in that case the right thing to do would be to offer BOTH. Not say to the fans of the movie, "You don't need this footage----it wasn't in the theatrical version 40 years ago."
Nonsense---especially when the director prefers the longer cut.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Heres some pics to peruse. All taken with my digital camera so obviously make allowances for this + jpeg compression as the BD quality is much better and the grain is all my cameras doing.
ST2:
This is one of the shots which has some Pop. Check out the stunning details on the mosaic in the background!


Nice colour tones here most of the grain has been removed as well.

These scenes here have no pop and the Directors Cut DVD looks very close to it which is strange.


ST4:
Stunning detail in this scene.


Most of the earth scenes look as good as this (ignore the blue/yellow outlines its my camera again!).



ST3:
This is one of the first scenes which got my attention as to how amazing the BD looks. It looks amazing in action a 2nd hand pic like this does not do it justice.

The colour detail here was lacking on previous formats. Its a real eye opener now.


This part of the movie has some razor sharp details. Check out the workstation graphics which were previously just a blurred mess on DVD.


Windowboxing titles:
Check out the full width image here.

Then note the Windowboxing!

I do wish someone could explain why they have to do this as the other 5 movies have perfect titles on BD.

ST1:
Some pop here. A lot of STMP is very good the detail is razor sharp and it looks better than ever.

Check out the multi coloured plants in the Botanical garden window!!

Now the unfortunate turn to negative town and why I think STMP has the worst overal PQ of the 6. All I can see is the DNR+EE its a mess.

Note the compression artifacts & pixels here.

This one is the worst of the lot its like the encoder went on strike or something as it could not handle the frames. I was very surprised by this.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I don't really see it as a case of right or wrong (it's a DVD release from a company that exists only to make money- not a moral decision) but I agree that they should release both versions on one disc. That being said, after decades of the same basic practice of getting Trek fans to keep rebuying the same movies and shows over and over, it's not a surprise that they'd do the same thing with the Blu-rays. If you don't like this version, wait until the next ST sequel comes out and you'll most likely have the director's cut then (if not sooner).

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Thanks for the screen caps! Can't wait to see the Enterprise leave space dock! Though the sequence on Vulcan with a black sky and moons is not something I'll miss. It will nostalgic.

What will be interesting, as you mentioned Paul, are other's impressions as they get their sets. I'm curious to see what you see in terms of the DNR and EE. Could be different for different players and displays.

edit: I almost forgot, I don't watch the 6 films too often, so it's more special when I do. As I recall, Star Trek 3 starts with the recap of Star Trek 2 and Nimoy or whoever, chose to have the image small and grow, or pan in as it goes along during the recap, I wonder if that's the case during the opening credits, as to why it seems windowboxed. Though I do doubt that.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Thanks for posting the screencap pictures!!! Great stuff. How do 5 and 6 look? At this point I will only be getting the Trilogy set. I'm not happy with the Paramount decisions on TMP and VI so I will pass on the 1-6 set.
How is the audio for the films?

I also ordered TOS season 1 this week. Great price at Amazon, $65.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Hi Scott,

1: Nope no tributes whatsoever to Montalban or even James Doohan unless they are part of the BD-live features which do not work yet. If totally absent and not just hard to find this is a poor decision as those 2 actors contributed a lot to TOS. Perhaps they did not have enough time to make a worthy tribute.

The De Forest Kelley tribute from the ST6 DE DVD is still intact though.

2: Nichelle Nichols name looks fine to me as do all the credits. The font on ST3 titles is the STMP theatrical style ST text and looks perfect. I remember some TV broadcasts & VHS released had the video credits you described. The ST3 windowboxing however is another story....

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Nelson, those Enterprise leaving space dock scenes are very clean more than I have ever seen them look so you will enjoy those. That vulcan has moon sequence actually looks very good! The detail and colour is effective.

Those windowboxed ST3 main titles are strange as the text is not even close to the edge at any time so you have to wonder if the stock footage of the clouds was not good enough for 1080P.

I hope the DNR + EE is better for some but I tried a PS3 (inferior PQ to the PC) as well as my high end PC.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

STMP:
Now watched it all start to finish. The good news is that approx 97% of it looks very good indeed much better than I even rememember it looking at the cinema. PQ has some amazing detail in places. Colour looks natural.

Some of the movies have Player generated Alien language subtitles which are within the picture frame not in the WS borders.

All 6 movies are now framed @ either 2:35.1 or ST6 is now 2:40.1.

Some of the movies have black dirt speckles in places but I suppose it was too expensive to remove these although as they had it in the digital realm could it really have been that costly/time consuming as most are only a few frames long.

The 3% of STMP which is a little poor looking could have been slightly improved I feel as some of it looks sloppy. However, the worse thing about STMP is the probe on the bridge sequence where they used a real live high powered electrical device which apparently caused issues to film. This sequence looks like SDVD but nothing can obviously be done to improve this as its always looked poor.

Overall STMP is still an amazing looking film as you have to make allowances for its age and the condition of the film elements. BD even gives it a must watch quality as the sound mix is better than ever so you are drawn into it and the vger & enterprise beauty shots are now more relaxing instead of being just an endurance test!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Hi Tim,
Still worth buying as Paramount have got most of this set right. Here are some 5 & 6 screen shots for you (all jpeg compression as taken again with a digital camera the real world PQ is much better). 5+6 look very good in places but 3,2 & 4 are still better. 6 with its new 2:40.1 AR looks more natural than ever before as some shots look better vs before they lost quality because of the frame zoom. The only was you can get 1 + 5 is to get the boxed set as they are only selling 2,3,4 + 6 individually. I cannot test the full audio at the moment so I am stuck with Dolby Headphones until Cyberlink release a patch for PowerDVD.
ST5:








ST6:

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

1: James Doohan's 2004 walk of fame is present on ST5 but its of poor quality and only 3:10. Quite frankly not a worthy tribute as its just a few sound bites of others talking when he got his walk of fame. I think they could have done something a little more than this surely. Just take a small camera crew to his family, co-stars & friends could not have been that hard to arrange could it!

2: Its strange as the WS LD is fine so who knows the answer to this one.

Not bothered checking out the PIP yet but did briefly look at the BD Live feature and nothing of note is there yet for ST2 + 5 just a ST interactive quiz.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Paul thank you so much for the screencaps from 5 and 6! I may have to reconsider based on how good these screencaps do look.

I'm really curious about the audio mixes. Especially what they will do with The Motion Picture. For the Director's Cut they finished the sound for the film as this was not completed in 1979. So I'm curious if they are using the same audio track from the Director's Cut for the new blu ray version.

Are you able to compare the original theatrical audio, Director's Cut audio and this new blu ray audio?

I guess this would be version #4 of the film on video? Theatrical letterbox VHS, Special Home video version pan and scan VHS, Director's Cut DVD, and now theatrical version with new audio mix.....

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Thanks for the reply Paul. I can't wait to see Star Trek The Motion Picture!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Paramount wasn't willing to pay to do the effects right for the version that was on the Director's Edition disc; I would be astounded if they paid to complete a sound mix for a version that wasn't.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

You are f****** kidding me? So let me get this straight, Paramount makes a special point of releasing the theatrical versions and then replaces the theatrical subtitles?

How do the new ones look compared to the old ones? The same fonts?

Particularly Star Trek III - the captions indicating "The Genesis Planet" should be in the Star Trek movie font. Are they?

This is (potentially) incredibly disappointing.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Sorry I made a slight mistake here STMP is all player generated subtitles for the Klingon language sequences, ST2 is the original theatrical text which appears near to the actor who is speaking and is small. ST3 is all Player generated text for the Klingon language but the Planet Genesis title card is the original movie font text. Not got to the last 3 movies yet.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Hi Tim, I do not think you would be disappointed for a moment as 5 + 6 look better than ever (As do all 6 movies) and the screencaps do not come close to showing the quality only hinting at it!

STMP audio mix sounds brand new. Its not the DE DVD mix or if it is they have done an amazing cut & paste job. Those enhanced sounds on the DE were the Enterprise jumps to Warp Speed are now absent and it seems that the original sound effects are present but the mixing is all new as the music and sound FX are mixed pretty equally. The LD sound mix was music heavy with minimal sound FX so I guess they have remixed the original audio tapes. The Goldsmith overture sounds very rich vs the LD was weak. All through the movie the music sounds amazing and the sound FX is prominent only when expected neither overpower the other so its a pleasant surprise as the LD mix was lacking.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

ST2:
Just finished watching it so whilst its still fresh in my mind...

I would say its a 98% perfect job PQ wise. Detail is outstanding and all through the movie you can make out little things which were previously masked by inferior home formats. The badges the actors on Regula1 wear you can now see the different colours. Kirk's Romulan ale bottle neck now looks very detailed indeed. The text in Engineering near the end of the movie now looks razor sharp. The Evans & Sutherland digital Starfields now look more consistent & are present in all Space Scenes. Some of the earlier formats had issues which meant the stars were not always present or very dim and hard to see.

There are some minor issues I noted below but please bear in mind I am being overly critical here and you will not be disappointed at all with this BD for an instant:

1: The opening sound played before with the Paramount logo but before the James Horner music begins has about 1 maybe 2 secs of very low popping noise which sounds like scratches on the audio tape header. Its not bothersome but its present at a very low frequency.

2: The opening Kobayashi Maru bridge sequence is marred by some digital noise or compression artifacts which appear as a tiny blue criss cross pattern on the red unifroms espeically Spock's. It also looks a little soft in places here.

3: The SS Botany Bay interiors look a little muted and not really HD quality, the detail is greater but there is no pop to it.

4: The Klingon ship STMP stock footage has a distinct macrovision VHS like criss cross pattern on the Enterprise viewscreen.

5: The opening shot of the Reliant traveling across Ceti Alpha has a distinct travelling matte transparent box you can clearly see for about 1 sec.

6: Some of the Enterprise bridge scenes look a little dark and 1 or 2 have this soft quality to them so detail is lacking.

Overall its an amazing transfer and better than ever but strangely no scenes really pop like the best BD do so I still rate ST3 and 4 slightly higher which is perhaps because they are newer and ST2 was a very low budget movie so perhaps that difference is now more apparent as the BD reveals previously hidden details. The DE DVD was incredible looking so perhaps that has spoiled things a little as there was not much more to discover!
Some scenes are razor sharp and the colour timing is very good. They have also left in all the intentional grain so the Mutara Nebula still retains this as does the exterior Ceti Alpha scenes which were always troublesome on older home formats, now it looks amazing and the only grain present is the intentional one not the compression artifact variety. PS3 reports over 40Mbps on this sequence alone!! The Vulcan subtitles are the ones placed near to the actor speaking in small text.

This is also the standard Theatrical cut which is just under 1:53 long so no extra footage here from previous DVD's. The only extras I viewed were 2 new items in HD. James Horner talking about the soundtrack recently which even showed glimpses of the music cue sheets which is well worth watching. Then a short doc in HD again about collecting ST Movie props which shows some goldmine rare stuff lucky people now own so is again worth checking out. Not bothered with the rest yet as most is DVD rehash although Nicholas Meyer has done an all new commentary track with Manny Coto and Meyer says some interesting things but does not revisit his previous track so I shall definately listen to that in full. BD Live is just an ST Interactive quiz thing.

The highest compliment I can pay this BD is that even after seeing the movie a good few times over the past 27 years this BD grabbed me from start to finish so I did not once take a break but sat there glued to the HDTV even though I know it inside out and back to front!!!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Paul, I just realised you're in the UK... fingers crossed the US versions contain ONLY original theatrical captions for everything including the Klingon language sequences.

I believe previous DVD editions had player-generated captions whereas the US counterparts were done properly.

Fingers crossed.

Has anybody seen the US discs to confirm?

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I hope your right as their are 14 different languages!! on the UK EU Discs so perhaps that is why

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I have my fingers crossed for the opposite, myself--I prefer player subtitles, especially when they're moved into the letterbox area. To each their own, though.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Great review Paul. I didn't know Meyer had done a new commentary. He's a good speaker and this should be good! I saw him at a bookstore when he was doing a signing when the last DE DVD set was released.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Hi Paul,

I think you alluded to this earlier, but are you noticing much, if any, dreaded digital noise reduction or edge enhancement?

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Andrew this EU version I bought has the subtitles in the frame NOT the WS borders.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Hi Dave, Yes unfortunately this is present on all 6 movies. STMP its very noticeable in places especially around the V'ger klingon attack opening sequence & the climax of the movie when Decker + ilia merge with V'ger. ST6 has a fair bit as well. Still does not prevent these movies from looking better than ever though!!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I think the same can be said for the DE-DVD of STII. Those scenes look no where near as good as other scenes. Must be the source.