Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far - Page 9

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I stand corrected. That actually makes complete sense about the final cut thing, rereading my earlier post I have no idea what the heck I was talking about. Thinking about watching the DC right now; perhaps it plays better than I remember, after all of this discussion I'm very curious how I'll feel about it now.

Ricardo Montalban... what can I say? I can begin by thanking him for creating the best Star Trek villain ever, and actually one of the best villains, period. It's rare to make such a lasting impression.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Not to question Wise's familiarity with the original Trek or his remembrance of the TMP shoot, but the only part of the TMP commentary I've listened to so far (first 10 mins or so) sounded like he was reading from a script, and I very much suspect not a script he'd written either. Hardly surprising given his age at the time, of course.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Regarding if Robert Wise was reading a prepared script during the audio commentary, at times, it did sound that way. I can't say for sure, but I bet it was not written by someone else.

If you listen to the audio commentary from The Day The Earth Stood Still, that came from the 1995 laserdisc. He sounds a lot more active there. On the TMP commentary, he definitely sounds older. But as you said Jonathan, it's not surprising he may have written things down.

I had a buddy who has a buddy in LA do me a huge favor and he went to the Mega Virgin Store(If that was the store) in Los Angeles when Robert Wise was signing autographs on the Star Trek The Motion Picture DVD. He did get it for me. And he remarked that he was really old and needed help. So I am grateful he was up to doing the commentary at the time!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

If they do do a new commentary, it could be a text commentary. The Okuda's did a great job there on past Trek releases. Perhaps Shatner and Nimoy do one more for this film. Or perhaps a third party whose a Trekspert.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Whilst we are all anxiously awaiting news on how much or little Paramount will give us I would like to remind everyone that right now for free on the official Star Trek website:

STARTREK.COM*:*Article
STARTREK.COM*:*Article
STARTREK.COM*:*Article
STARTREK.COM*:*Article

You can download several (at least 13) neat little quicktime videos and also a complete commentary track for the STMPDE DVD. Most of this material is not included on the current DVD so you can imagine some if not all of it will find its way onto the upcoming BD!

Look for these videos on the lefthand side of the URL's I have provided above. This material has been here for years but it is not very well advertised so unless you know its there not exactly easy to find !

Podcast of the new commentary:
STARTREK.COM*:*Article

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I believe Wise had a stroke somewhere in between The Day The Earth Stood Still commentary and the TMP. While it didn't effect his memory, it did effect his speech.

I have listened to several of Wise's commentaries and he always seem to have the facts at his fingertips. He may very well make notes before he goes in to do the commentary. However I can tell you that I met Mr. Wise on 2 separate occasions. Once at a film festival in Phoenix, where we had a 15 min conversation, and once again about 5 years later in LA at a retrospective of his work. I was astonished when I walked up to shake his hand, that he remembered me with out my having a chance to say a word to him.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Sat down and watched the DE DVD this afternoon. Two things were immediately apparent:
(1) The print was somewhat dirty, but I can't tell if it was optically printed in, since most of it was in the special effects shots; and
(2) a lot of this film is very soft looking, particularly the bridge shots where a split diopter was being used due to the darkness of the bridge set.

This will be a very interesting experience in HD. I can just imagine the fanboy complaints already: "What's that fuzzy part in the middle of the shot?" "This is really grainy-looking." "The colour looks really washed out."

I know there are many who will understand the reasons, but there will be many more who will expect that 3D "pop" and won't get it consistently out of this film. Watching the effects shots, it's clear that they were either shot on 65mm or VistaVision (no elliptical distortion on lens flares, and Trumbull is known for preferring 65mm for effects shots), and they may exhibit the best possibilities for 3D "Pop".

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Actually its both. Trumbull's effects shots were done in 65mm, and John Dykstra's shots were done in VistaVision.

One thing that I do think would help improve the effects shots in this film is if they were to go back to the original individual elements, and re-composite them digitally. The Klingon sequence in particular has HUGE matte lines.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Douglas, were the huge matte lines around the Tie Fighters in Star Wars similarly removed? I haven't seen Star Wars, the remastered version, in a while. But I thought I recalled the mattes were cleaned up.

Interesting if Lowry are, or could do that for the Klingon sequence in Star Trek The Motion Picture. (And don't say it Jedifonger! )

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

My understanding is that the matte line were 'erased' digitally (rather than recompositing the shots digitally).

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Tanks Travis, and it could be how they deal with the mattes in Star Trek The Motion Picture.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Great discussion here. I may be coming around a bit on the theatrical version of the film. It's not what I would like to watch, but so be it. We'll hopefully get the DE cut later on. It would be great if they could just offer both cuts on the same set, but that won't happen.

Is there a release date set for the films on blu ray? Or even a rumored date? I read the week that the JJ Abrams Star Trek film is in theaters. So the first Tuesday in May?

Somewhat off topic, is Season 1 of The Original Series coming to blu ray as well around the same time?

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

My understanding was they did recomposite the effects sequences in the Star Wars films, as matte lines were only one problem. Another was contrast issues in TESB, in both the Hoth battle (transparency of composited elements) and the asteroid chase scene ("white boxes" around the TIE fighters). They couldn't really solve those issues witout recompositing.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

I'm definitely not sure that they didn't recomposite all the shots but I would think they could get away with erasing the mattes in shots where there was just a model or two against the black of outer space.

Like you said, the snow battle shots in Empire must have been recomposited. They look different- no longer transparent- than the original version but none of the space battle shots that were in the original and the SEs look different (outside of losing the matte lines) to my eyes.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The current rumor that I've seen and was linked to earlier in this thread, is that the first 6 films will be on Blu Ray the week the JJ Abrams Star Trek will premiere in May.

The same rumor does say that the first season of TOS will be out that week too.

If both are true, then it will be a great week!

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

In Star Wars, where they had shots of ships on black space with stars, matte lines were not a big issue. However as has been noted, the Hoth scenes had to be re-composited because the only way to do those shots originally and not see huge black matte lines was to not print the model elements to full density. Objects could be seen through the snow speeders.

Also in Star Wars, every explosion done in front of a bluescreen was re-comped because they the opacity of fire would be realized much better with digital compositing.

My understanding is that there was no elimination of matte lines in Star Wars with some kind of digital paint technique, it was all done by re-comping the original elements. Honestly re-comping the shots digitally would probably be easier and less costly than some kind of matte line removal process done frame by frame. This assumes of course that the original elements are available and in good shape, which may not be the case with film stock from the late 70s.

I'm not sure if Lowry has any process for the elimination of matte lines. I still feel the best option would be to go back to the original elements. This way much of the dirt and dust specs seen in those shots could be done away with before the comp process starts. Also the shots would likely end up being MUCH sharper with much finer grain.

Also the Kingon sequence has always had a big problem with density of the elements. The space plate behind everything isn't really black but rather a milky gray, which makes the matte lines stand out even on the star fields. This could be corrected with out effecting the other elements with a re-comp.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

When I see a split diopter shot in Wise films, the reason seems (to me) to be that he wanted the foreground and background characters to both be in focus. In addition to STTMP, he used it in Andromeda Strain and, I think, in Sound of Music as well.

That's my ignorant opinion, based solely upon looking at the shots.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

This is one thing I'm looking anxious for.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Thanks Douglas!

Your post reminded me of a post I posted back in December 2006. I had posted two screen grabs from Star Trek The Motion Picture and Star Trek 2. These were the same shots from the POV of the shuttlepod traveling around the Enterprise as Scotty shows the ship to Kirk and as Sulu approaches the Enterprise in Wrath of Khan. What struck me was how dark and IIRC, the dirt and dust on this shot in TMP. In TWOK, the same shot is re-used and it looks clean and bright with good color and contrast, a solid image.

Here's a link to that post so you can see the screen grabs: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/3051916-post1.html

So it makes me wonder, what was the cause of this. Was the TMP master just dirtier and worn compared to the TWOK master or film elements. I don't know the process of film remastering or whether they'll tackle this film in the optical or digital realm. But it looks like TMP can look pretty impressive if the TWOK image is an indication. And the grayish look of space during the Klingon sequence as you mentioned could go away as a result(?) The same Klingon shots are used on TWOK during the simulator segment and I am tempted to go and see how that looks on the DC DVD.

Regarding how dark the bridge shots looked, I do remember seeing this in 1979 and it was darkish. But once remastered, I bet these shots will look Glorious! (As Kor would say )

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

That already happened back when the DE DVD was first released, as it was the first time a lot of those fans got to see the full widescreen framing. The Trek boards were all lit up about that fuzzy line down the middle.

I was already used to it because I've had the widescreen LD for years and already knew about the photographic process that created it.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

what fuzzy lines r u guys referring to? the consoles in the enterprise ship or the visual fx through V'Ger?

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The scene described above involved a closer shot of Shatner on one side of the screen and an alien Bridge crew member on the other side of the screen further back. The split diopter lens allowed both to be in focus, while the area between the 2 actors was out of focus and blurry, or as described above, "fuzzy".


Edit: Found the exact image on the internet:

[IMG][url=http://imageshack.us][/URL[/IMG]

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

Thanks for the rumored release date info Nelson!

A great week, but very expensive week!!!

: )

I'm trying to figure out if I should sell my Trek DVD's now.... Also what to do with the Director's Cut for The Motion Picture.

Great point on the bridge scene with Kirk and the soft picture for the camera lens used. I never knew about this, but the Michale Okuda trivia track pointed it out. Those are a great feature to the current dvd's.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

ah gotchya, i've always wondered about that and if it was done on purpose. thanks.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

You're welcome Tim, I hope the rumors are true too! And I agree, it will be an expensive week!

JediFonger, you're welcome too. I learned something looking for the image as I never saw the lens before and I learned how it works. It explains the lens just covers the left side in this case and focuses only the foreground with Shatner while the areas behind him are out of focus.

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

The split diopter is both a necessity of the low lighting on the bridge, and just something that Wise liked to use. Another director might have just let the background go soft and use a rack focus rather than a diopter, but the diopter is very much a Robert Wise thing.

Remember he was the editor on Citizen Kane, which was praised for its deep focus. Most of Wise's pre-scope films also exhibit a deep focus look. Watch "The Day The Earth Stood Still" as an example. However once he got to using anamorphic lenses, the deep focus just wasn't possible, so he opted for the split diopter.

Doug

Re: Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far

HD Video Gallery on CBS.com

Ohhh! Goody!!! On a related note. Unsure if it's been posted in this long thread or not, but I've just found that CBS has posted quite a few TOS Remastered episodes streamed in 720p HD for free on their website. All you need is a fairly up to date PC, Silverlight 2.0 (with either IE or Firefox, I prefer the later, and away you go).

Enjoy!