The Dark Knight Specs - Page 2

Re: The Dark Knight Specs

Except you're not losing anything if you cut off that material above/below the 2.35:1 line--it was already cut off in theaters, and will be cut off on the SD-DVD.

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That's not entirely true, because if you did a straight crop of the IMAX scenes certain things (Batman's head in the Sears Tower shot among them) would be gone.

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Anyone who knows me even a little bit here knows that i'm all about maintaining the OAR of any film.

Having said that i'm wrestling with this one for mainly one reason, i'm afraid the jumping from 2.40:1 to 1.78:1 will remove my attention from the film. It seems that it would be pretty jarring with the film switching back and forth like that.

Again, they're maintaining the OAR of the IMAX dimensions and I appreciate that but I don't want to sacrifice the immersive experience of watching the film, either.

Also, I don't know what the bits means when it says "will thus recreate the IMAX experience at home"? I don't know about anyone else but I don't have a 3-story screen in my living room lol. It will recreate the IMAX ratio yes but it will not recreate the experience i'm sure.

Maybe it won't be as bad as that and it will be fine but i'm just thinking ahead, that's all. In the end I applaud them for doing this, they took the time to think about the integrity of both theatrical and IMAX ratios and you'll never hear me slamming a studio for that.

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Have to hold something back for the inevitable special edition.

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I'm sure we all have our preference in terms of which aspect ratio we enjoy over another, and I prefer the HD 1.78:1 /theatrical 1.85:1 AR.

I find that with those two being so close, it's easier (for me) to process everything happening on screen without having to look around to specific areas, something I find myself doing (and missing something as a result if something is happening elsewhere on screen) watching a 2.35:1 or 2.40:1 film. That opinion is based purely on theatrical viewings.

At home, of course that doesn't become an issue though I'm sure that one thing that will annoy me about the shifting AR will be the ghost images of the black borders on the plasma when viewing the IMAX stuff.

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I wasn't sure what to expect when I saw the film in IMAX (I had already caught the regular 35mm version a couple times) but I was worried about the aspect ratio changes being jarring or taking me out of the film as you described. Oddly enough, for me, the result was the exact opposite.

The way that it's shot, there are a few sequences that are entirely in IMAX, like the opening bank heist, that were absolutely spectacular in the IMAX-sized frame. I've seen the Blu-Ray release of that sequence on the Begins disc and I think the look and feel of it carried over particularly well.

There are also a bunch of single shots in the film that were in IMAX, establishing shots, exteriors, aerial shots. These are the ones where I was more worried about being pulled out of the film; I figured with a full sequence, after a second or two I'd be over it. Again, my experience was opposite what I expected: the larger IMAX-sized exterior and aerial shots made the world within the film seem absolutely giant, and cutting to the 35mm footage actually made me feel like I was now being drawn into this world.

(A perfect example of this was the Hong Kong sequence; we first see Hong Kong in IMAX, we see Fox landing in IMAX and walking into the LSI building in IMAX, but when it cuts to Fox meeting with Lau in a restaurant area, it's regular 35mm. And it actually makes sense, because this is a little scene with two people talking, and the transition just works right; then, when we see Batman standing on the top of the Hong Kong skyline preparing to jump, it switches back to IMAX and we're again reminded of how much larger than life Batman is.)

I know it might not be for everyone, and I completely agree that seamless branching should have been used to give the viewer the choice. That said, I don't own an HDTV or a Blu-Ray player. (I do have a projector that I'm very pleased with, and that handles my cable's HD broadcasts spectacularly.) The IMAX version of the film was such an experience and such a joy to watch that this will probably be the release that makes me buy a Blu-Ray player. Whether it's in full 1080p or downconverted to 480p on my machine, having seen the film with the IMAX sequences in it, I don't ever want to see it without them again.

Just my two cents.

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The biggest surprise to me was the sheer amount of sequences in IMAX. I never expected the entire SWAT/Joker/Tumbler/Batpod chase sequence to be completely IMAX, or the entire skyscraper/sonar fight.

Absolutely incredible.

It may be only 42" on my TV (believe me if I could afford a projector I would) but that's plenty for me to enjoy.

I hope that when people actually see it, everyone will be pleasantly surprised.

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I read that they became so comfortable with the IMAX cameras they ended up using them far more then they had planned on. Many of the Non-IMAX scenes were still shot using the IMAX cameras, they just didn't choose to emphasis them with the open frame.

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The aspect ratio of Imax is NOT 1.78:1, but rather 1.44:1. If they are presenting the Imax segments at 1.78:1 then they are clearly not using the OAR.

Doug

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Well, that sucks.

I didn't see the film in IMAX so I didn't know what the OAR was for it to be honest.

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That's what I thought when I first read 1.78:1. Isn't The Dark Knight prologue on the Batman Begins BD in 1.44:1?

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Does anyone have any more information on whether or not Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and even Batman & Robin are going to see a BD release here in the US? I see they've been announced for the UK on 12/29. I'm wondering if this if going to play out like Gremlins and The Goonies (i.e. a UK release without a US one in sight)?

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To be fair, Nolan and his DP Wally Pfister are responsible for reframing it to 1.78:1, so if you were impressed by the TDK prologue on the Begins Blu-ray, then you shouldn't worry about it.

The only way to watch an IMAX film on a television without cropping (and with minimal borders) would be to see it on a 4x3 screen.

Gotta love the irony in that considering it's all about the 16x9 HD screens now!


Digital Bits (I think) mentioned it for US as well, but I could be wrong about that.

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And as I believe I posted before, there is a lot of "dead space" in the 1.44 framing of The Dark Knight IMAX scenes that I saw. And it was almost always at the top of the screen. So if Nolan and Co. simply crop from the top, the loss/impact will be minimal.

If anything, I think the 1.78 framing would be more appropriate than the 1.44 given the amount of dead space (where absolutely nothing is happening, it is just the extension of buildings upwards, etc.) that exists. Keep in mind they knew that 90%+ of the audience would see a 2.35 framed The Dark Knight so they surely "protected" for that while shooting with the IMAX cameras.

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Cropping IMAX to 16x9 isn't a big deal. They have to film for such a wide viewing area since your field of vision usually won't focus on the entire image. That's why I felt the transitions from full IMAX to 2.35:1 were seamless. It's not like they'd shoot without the foresight that it would later be cropped to 16x9 and 2.35:1.

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It is absolutely true that Imax, by it nature and the proximity of the screen to the audience, that you can't really take in the whole image at once. The audience spends a great deal of time scanning the screen, not just with their eyes but neck as well. As a result framing an Imax film tends to be much looser than a standard film. Also many Imax films that I've seen tend to put people's head near the center of the frame rather than toward the top as you would on a standard film. This is done so that people aren't always looking way up at the top of the screen to see people's faces.

I'm sure that the filmmakers were protecting for 2.40:1 knowing that the vast majority of theaters were going to be showing the film at that aspect ratio. 1.78:1 is probably not a big deal with regard to cropping the original Imax image. I was just pointing out that its not the original aspect ratio.

Doug

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Are we sure the Imax footage on the Begins blu-ray is 1.78:1? I recall there being slight black bars on the sides, it seemed more like 1.66:1.

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I definitely remember bars on the side as well.

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It was 1.66:1.

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RE: the changing AR thing, it's probably best to just withhold judgement until we see (and experience) the BD at home. Of course, ideally, they should just give us both via seamless branching since not everyone might experience it the same way, let alone feel the same way about what they do see.

Anyway, I plan to just get it preordered w/ a good discount from the WHV site (as w/ various other Warner titles)...

_Man_

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Hmmm... Is it just me? Seems that the WHV site has just pulled this featured title from their selection (and my shopping cart).

_Man_

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I agree. I also think *for the moment* that this might be a bad idea for home video release.

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Yeah, I can't see it anywhere on their site either. I sure hope they honor previously submitted orders (I placed mine 9/30), as I got a great deal on this set.

No cancellation e-mails yet . . . fingers crossed.

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yes, on the the Batman Begins BD, it The Dark Knight IMAX opening seemed more around 1.66:1 - black on the side with 0% overscan.

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Caballero meant "horseman" only in ancient Spanish and does translate into "knight" in modern Spanish, and oscuro means "dark", not hidden. But the correct title in Spanish for this movie is EL CABALLERO DE LA NOCHE (yes, The Night Knight).

Cheers.

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Figures I'd be better off 'un-learning' what I learned in high school. I have to say, I do like the corrected title!