New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apocalypse Now, anyone? - Page 2

post #31 of 72
11/17/09 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H View Post

Absolutely bizarre that it's been cropped yet again.  That 'statement' should be interesting especially given the original supposed reason for cropping from the start which makes absolutely zero sense with Blu-ray and today's displays.  But, we'll see...

Actually, it's rather consistent for it to be cropped on Blu-ray, too. See: The Last Emperor.
Reply
post #32 of 72
11/17/09 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H View Post

Absolutely bizarre that it's been cropped yet again.  That 'statement' should be interesting especially given the original supposed reason for cropping from the start which makes absolutely zero sense with Blu-ray and today's displays.  But, we'll see...


Agreed!

Even so I don't have much hope that we'll ever get the theatrical AR.

At this point I'm just about as worried that we'll get the Redux version only which would not make me happy.  Not happy at all.
Reply
post #33 of 72
11/17/09 at 5:23pm
If it's Redux only, no sale. I'm fine if a director wants to make some changes provided that the Theatrical cuts are still available. But, I hate it when the newer version becomes the default version.

No reason the commentary should not be included. And yeah, We'll probably never see this film in it's theatrical AR. It will be interesting to see Storaro's explanation on the AR, but I'm not holding my breath for a satisfactory answer. Will probably be along the lines of "This is the AR I've always envisioned......yada yada yada" I hope I'm proven wrong
Reply
post #34 of 72
11/18/09 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillG View Post

If it's Redux only, no sale. I'm fine if a director wants to make some changes provided that the Theatrical cuts are still available. But, I hate it when the newer version becomes the default version.

No reason the commentary should not be included. And yeah, We'll probably never see this film in it's theatrical AR. It will be interesting to see Storaro's explanation on the AR, but I'm not holding my breath for a satisfactory answer. Will probably be along the lines of "This is the AR I've always envisioned......yada yada yada" I hope I'm proven wrong

Not to mention that the Univisium format was devised almost twenty years after Apocalypse Now was made. He seems to think that the theater screen and the television screen are two entirely different media, but they really aren't.
But, as it's only the Redux cut, I'm not interested in this. I like the controversial plantation scene, but it really doesn't fit in the movie.
Reply
post #35 of 72
11/18/09 at 2:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillG View Post

 Storaro's explanation on the AR, but I'm not holding my breath for a satisfactory answer. Will probably be along the lines of "This is the AR I've always envisioned......yada yada yada" I hope I'm proven wrong

He is just wrong. He says his inspiration is Leonardo's The Last Supper, yet the ratio of that painting is 1.913:1 (880 cm x 460 cm) not 2.00:1.
Reply
post #36 of 72
11/18/09 at 5:49am
Quote:
Now, there’s this rumor they’re going to retransfer Apocalypse Now at 1:2.35 — I will not do it. I will not do it. Because on a television it doesn’t work.

Filmmaker: Not even if it’s being played on an HD 16:9 screen?
 

Storaro: 16:9 should be changed.
 

Filmmaker: There would still be black bars, but it would be less…
 

Storaro: No, no. We should change the screen and make it 18:9.



Storaro in an interview with Filmmaker Magazine (June 2007). He's so wrong, even a decade after his invention of his 2.00:1 Univisium format.
Edited by ChristianLiemke - 11/18/09 at 1:18pm
Reply
post #37 of 72
11/18/09 at 6:16am
Blimey, there's a frisson of 'You WILL bend to my will!!' about that quote isn't there? Sorry, but a cropped VHS tape, followed by two cropped DVD releases is as far as I go in 'Univisium'.
Edited by John Hodson - 11/18/09 at 6:39am
Reply
post #38 of 72
11/18/09 at 2:54pm
The Reds BD is also MARed (in the other direction) to 2.0:1.

But yeah, there's not much hope for OAR on any of these titles at least until Storaro passes away perhaps.  Wonder if he will put the MAR 2.0:1 into his will/estate so that it gets enforced even after he passes on.

BTW, IIRC, his Univisium treatise doc actually proposes all film shooting *and* theatrical presentation go to 2.0:1 also, not just for home video.  He basically thinks 2.0:1 is the new Golden Ratio or something -- and would probably like for it to be applied across the board w/ draconian measures, if possible.

Somebody should remind him there already is a Golden Ratio.  And if he wants to go for that, he'll need to do some more serious hacking at his films.

_Man_
Edited by ManW_TheUncool - 11/19/09 at 2:50am
Reply
post #39 of 72
11/18/09 at 10:06pm
Are you sure REDS is cropped to 2:1?  I haven't watched it entirely yet, but I did watch the first 30-minutes of so a few months ago via the HD-DVD and recall it being 1.85:1.

Also, at least one Storaro film has survived on Blu-ray in its OAR-  Dario Argento's THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMAGE.

Vincent
Reply
post #40 of 72
11/19/09 at 2:36am
Blu-ray.com reports Reds as 1.78:1, the Beaver says, 1.85:1, measuring his own 'caps I, it looks to be 1.77:1 - but what's a few pixels between comrades?
Reply
post #41 of 72
11/19/09 at 2:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_P View Post

Are you sure REDS is cropped to 2:1?  I haven't watched it entirely yet, but I did watch the first 30-minutes of so a few months ago via the HD-DVD and recall it being 1.85:1.

 

Hmmm...  My bad!  You're likely correct.  For some reason, I must've misremembered (or maybe misread) that the Reds BD was also MARed to 2.0:1.  Since I can't find any references now to suggest it was actually MARed to 2.0:1 (and I never bothered to buy the BD even when it was bargain priced some time ago because I had thought it was MARed), it's probably just my mistake.   I have the DVD, and it claims to be 1.85:1 (though it's probably more like 1.78:1 or 16x9).

_Man_
Reply
post #42 of 72
11/19/09 at 12:23pm
Did this movie get a hi-def transfer that was downgraded to SD for the Complete Dossier edition? If so, I'd doubt they would transfer again when they have a semi-new master and all of the branch points for easier authoring.
Reply
post #43 of 72
11/19/09 at 12:37pm
they really don't need to have Storraro sign on for a 2.35:1 version,just do it without him ,set the colors to the last
version he did ,Its not his film ,its Coppola's .At least most of storaros best work isn't widescrreen to start with
He can't screw up most of these like AN and the Last Emperor,Lady Hawke and The last Emperor are at least
avaible in 2.35:1 ,
I am more concerned that the pojects he picks aren't that great,Watching the No Subtitles Documentary I can't
help but feel Vimos talent hasn't been used for 20 years ,because hes not getting the right films.
Reply
post #44 of 72
11/19/09 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski View Post

Its not his film ,its Coppola's

Except that, from what we can tell, Coppola gave his blessing to Storraro's changes. We know that this was 100% the case with The Last Emperor: Criterion asked Bertolucci, and he said quite straightforwardly to do as Storraro desired.
Reply
post #45 of 72
11/19/09 at 11:31pm
Yes, Coppola gave "his blessing" for Storaro's 2:1 ratio. But, as many have pointed out, this ratio doesn't make a lick of sense in these days of 1080p and widescreen t.v.'s. It seems more and more likely that this is a power trip for an enormous ego, and Coppola hadn't the sense or the backbone to protest. A good parallel: Rasputin's influence over the Romanovs. There very possibly isn't one single owner of a home theater who would welcome the news that Storaro's big fat head and his visions of Universium becoming some sort of new standard are going to be applied yet again for what should be the ultimate video release: the Blu-ray edition. This is all such a shame. Storaro has proven himself to be a masterful cinematographer, and here he is ruining his very own carefully constructed compositions, frequently cutting actors in half at the extreme left and/or right sides of the frame, just to impose his ridiculous will upon us all. Say, Mr. Storaro, ever heard of the separation of Church and State? The same concept should apply here. Contribute your wonderful images for theatrical release and leave the video to those who know what they're doing. Coppola should really review this whole scene, because his movie is being butchered. If movie fans can appreciate this fact, why can't he? 
Reply
post #46 of 72
11/20/09 at 1:11am
It's been my experience that, on average, "movie fans" are much more concerned with home video presentation than the filmmakers themselves. This may change with Blu-ray going forward, but it's probably not gonna happen overnight. The filmmakers are usually absorbed in their new project, and typically a previous film is simply the past for them, and even an afterthought. In other words, their enthusiasm for the project that in their mind has been long finished will never match that of the project's fanbase.
Reply
post #47 of 72
11/20/09 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick View Post

...and Coppola hadn't the sense or the backbone to protest. 


As long as you're not making any wild assumptions based on absolutely nothing.
Reply
post #48 of 72
11/20/09 at 7:04pm
Quote:
But yeah, there's not much hope for OAR on any of these titles at least until Storaro passes away perhaps.  Wonder if he will put the MAR 2.0:1 into his will/estate so that it gets enforced even after he passes on.
Even though it's somewhat distasteful to think that someone has to die for some fans like us to get what we want, many of us must admit it's one of the first things that come to our minds. For example people had surely pondered if we would get the original versions of the Star Wars OT if Lucas died, or if we would get a proper SE of Blade Runner if Jerry Perenchio died (of course, the irony is that we eventually did get these things without any death involved, the non-anamorphic SW DVDs nonwithstanding). But sometimes it does hold true. Kubrick had to die before we got Widescreen versions of many of his films and significant special features on many of them. However, it does seem that Storaro is not going to budge on this issue. It seems that in most cases the directors are very respectful of their DPs wishes in cases like this as usually DPs and editors are second to directors with regards to the artistic direction of films (many directors start out as DPs or Editors). So, as long as Coppola is alive as well, A.P. will probably remain as 2:00.1.

To see A.P. in its original AR is one of my cinematic Holy Grails. And I do agree that the reasonings for this are completely irrelevant today. In the future, when we're watching films in holographic form, is there still going to be an arguement that 2.35:1 "doesn't work" for home viewing?
Reply
post #49 of 72
11/20/09 at 7:21pm
I have a question.

the tv that you own? can it do upscale? I can do that on my tv. when I play A now. I get a black bar on top and bottom. its not like a 2.35. but its there. only when I upscale my tv. I dont lose the overscan.

Jacob
Reply
post #50 of 72
11/20/09 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillG View Post


Kubrick had to die before we got Widescreen versions of many of his films and significant special features on many of them.

To be fair, in the case of Kubrick, one would think that once 16:9 HDTVs became mainstream he would have noted the ability of the home viewing to greater match the theatrical experience. Kubrick, unlike many filmmakers, did pay attention to the home video industry and how his films played at home, which is why he didn't want his last 3 films (The Shining, Full Metal Jacket, Eyes Wide Shut) matted on a 4x3 SD TV in the first place.
Reply
post #51 of 72
11/21/09 at 9:50am
The Special Edition releases still hold true though. I remember on one of the Commentaries it was mentioned that it was a "un-Kubrician" thing to do, or something like that.
Reply
post #52 of 72
11/21/09 at 4:06pm
Could do a "Star Wars" and release different colored boxsets,....

In a day and age when even the Beatles in mono is released now on Cd....

Why is this still even an "issue".....one word...ego.

Same reason Star Wars still isn't out on BR either....
Reply
post #53 of 72
11/23/09 at 7:04am
as i said and did with the last emperor, i will not buy any current or future releases that do not show the film in the original theatrical aspect ratio. it's what i grew up with. the 2:1 aspect ratio it's a crippled version of these films.

sorry mr. coppola, i really love apocalypse now but non oar doesn't cut for it me
Reply
post #54 of 72
11/23/09 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnricoE View Post

as i said and did with the last emperor, i will not buy any current or future releases that do not show the film in the original theatrical aspect ratio. it's what i grew up with. the 2:1 aspect ratio it's a crippled version of these films.

sorry mr. coppola, i really love apocalypse now but non oar doesn't cut for it me

 

Mr Storaro might have this weird vision of how these movies are supposed ot be reframed (and we can be glad it is not 1,78:1 or less) but we do not HAVE to buy it.

If all the potential buyers would at most rent but not buy these movies in their cropped form it would make quite a big splash - I know I will be doing my part and I won't buy any of these 2:1 AR storaroized movies in my lifetime.

And if there is a petition or whatever to go back to the OAR for The Last Emperor or Apocalypse Now I will be glad to sign it.
Reply
post #55 of 72
11/23/09 at 9:11am
What's hilarious is that Storaro keeps referring to "The Last Supper" as some sort of guideline for framing movies. I guess we should all be thankful he didn't fall in love with the Mona Lisa instead.
Reply
post #56 of 72
11/23/09 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Teller View Post

What's hilarious is that Storaro keeps referring to "The Last Supper" as some sort of guideline for framing movies. I guess we should all be thankful he didn't fall in love with the Mona Lisa instead.

That's a good one
Reply
post #57 of 72
11/23/09 at 10:51am
What really bothered me was the reviews for The Last Emperor BR that came out ,Most trying to tell us Storraro's
cropping isn't that important since he's the one who shot the film,Most reviews didn't even bring it up.Some
AN seem to get a least some negative reviews about the cropping,but I think more talk was about which version
was better.I still don't get it ,Isn't the Director in charge of the design of the frame?
Reply
post #58 of 72
11/23/09 at 11:30am
I don't think it's uncommon for directors, particularly those of an earlier generation, to have little to no interest in how their films are presented on home video. Then there are others - like William Friedkin with his radical colour changes on "The French Connection" blu-ray - who see home video as an opportunity to experiment and try out things that they couldn't - or wouldn't - do with a theatrical release.
Reply
post #59 of 72
11/23/09 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Neski View Post

What really bothered me was the reviews for The Last Emperor BR that came out ,Most trying to tell us Storraro's
cropping isn't that important since he's the one who shot the film,Most reviews didn't even bring it up.Some
AN seem to get a least some negative reviews about the cropping,but I think more talk was about which version
was better.I still don't get it ,Isn't the Director in charge of the design of the frame?

They are, unless they give it to the Director of Photography, and both Bertolucci and Coppola did that. It's too bad, really. Storaro is an amazing DP (Apocalypse Now is one of the best photographed movies ever, I think) and that's because they leave him alone to do his job well. It completely backfires when the DP wants to change things some years after the movie is done.
But I'm a bit conflicted here. I'm all for director's intent (or the DP if the director wants that) and I think his opinion must be heard, since he created the movie to begin with. It's only when they make a decision that some people don't like when it goes the wrong way. I don't hear anyone talk about Se7en's altered color scheme, done for the 2-disc dvd when it came out. And that looks drastically different compared to the original colors too. So, in this case I'd rather have a copy of Apocalypse Now that's perhaps not the way it was released in theaters but approved by the director.
Reply
post #60 of 72
11/23/09 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Borst View Post

I don't hear anyone talk about Se7en's altered color scheme, done for the 2-disc dvd when it came out. And that looks drastically different compared to the original colors too. So, in this case I'd rather have a copy of Apocalypse Now that's perhaps not the way it was released in theaters but approved by the director.
 

david fincher clearly stated why he color changed the film for the 2 disc release and it was very acceptable as it truly showed the actual vision of the movie. this is very much different then the lame excuse used for apocalypse now and the last emperor cropping crap.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray