A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray - Page 2

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Got my copy today from Amazon.

I really wanted to sit and watch the film tonight but I had a two
week's worth of Tivo to catch up on, and of course, the forum is
a constant diversion.

Anyhow...

The biggest choice for me to make tomorrow is whether to watch
the smilebox or widescreen version.

Yeah, I mean how stupid I can be? It would seem natural that the
smilebox version would be the way to go as it shows more picture
information than the widescreen version.

However, I wanted to be absolutely certain I was making the right
choice on which version to see, as I don't have time to watch both
versions back-to-back.

One more thing...

I really am touched by Robert Crawford's post above. This may seem
a bit overdramatic to some, but being introduced to How The West
Was Won by Mr. Crawford and having the opportunity to see it at
the Cinerama, was an experience I will always cherish and never forget.

I fell in love with this film for no other reason that its story, its
cast and being immersed in the Cinerama experience.

If you own ONE title on Blu-ray this year, this is the film to buy.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Ron, I am going with the Smilebox version first, if for no other reason than it emulates the deeply-curved look of the Cinerama screen.

I ordered from Amazon, but UPS claims that the package is out for delivery as of this morning. It never showed up on the doorstep tonight. Sigh. Maybe tomorrow.

- Steve

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Not that it really matters, but are the seams removed equally on
both versions?

My next question would be, if it is the same picture information
on both discs, what would be the main reasons to watch the
smilebox version over the widescreen?

Just trying to understand better the difference in the two.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

After watching both versions, I can't say one way or another which version I preferred except the Smilebox version had a newness to it that the letterbox version didn't have for me. Perhaps because I viewed that version first.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Dang it, I must stop reading this thread. I keep telling myself that I'm not going to blind buy anything and that I must rent first, but I keep coming here and my resolve weakens. This sounds like a great presentation and package.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Ron,

I reviewed the Blu-ray over the weekend. Go for the SmileBox version. It is as close as one will ever come to experiencing Cinerama at home- a truly amazing home presentation.

Enjoy!

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

I have cut back my BD & DVD purchases drastically lately for financial reasons. But this is one that I'll be looking for...and soon! I already was checking around, tonight, as I happened to be in both a Target & Wal-Mart. But, surprisingly, nothing at W-M and Target only carried the 3-disc SD version ($42.99).

I've even got my wife on board for this film!


It's not the popcorn crunching I mind so much. It's the cell phones and constant chatter that are getting harder and harder to take. But that's a discussion for another thread!

Thanks for asking those questions, Ron about the differences between versions. I am still not sure which one I will turn to first. But the smilebox sounds pretty cool.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

The lack of Sticky Feet Syndrome and the crunchy sound of popcorn consumption surrounding me clearly are inaccurate to a correct reproduction of the original theatrical presentation. This release is a travesty!

Vincent

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

The crunchy sound, cellphones and theater chatter will be flown in for an updated TrueHD mix on the next special edition...

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

I also doubt I'll be watching both versions anytime in the near future (too many other prime releases over the next few months and not enough free time anymore) so the Smilebox version will be the way I watch it whenever it gets here.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

I got my set today and HAD to take a peek - the level of detail is unreal at times - this is the first large format movie that makes full use of the capabilities of the Blu-Ray format and gives an impression of the level of detail we could have gotten with Patton and other not so hot large format releases - very well done Warner !

As I have a roughly 45 degrees curved screen and a CRT I will watch it with my own special smilebox version that is somewhere in between the two versions at hand - really looking forward to this !

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

It should be noted the picture information on both versions is not the same, with the Smilebox version slightly cropping both sides of the image. This cropping isn't horrible and is easily made up for by the process itself.

When I first examined the opening of the letterboxed version to the Smilebox version, I must admit to being slightly drawn to the letterbox version initially. And I've watched Smilebox previously and support the format. I think simply because standard letterboxing is what I'm normally used to seeing. But after checking out a few scenes, it was the end chapter of the close of the movie with the ariel sequences that made the switch easy. For me, the 3-panel perspective artifacts were reduced in the Smilebox format when compared to the letterboxed version.

I think Robert Crawford has the best game plan: Watch the Smilebox version first, then the letterboxed version the next time, as that's the only version that has the great audio commentary track.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Oliver,

Can you elaborate a little on your version? i.e. Media format?

Not having a curved home theater screen, (I know some people do, like Alan Gouger over at AVS) I wonder if the "Smile Box" version is mainly intended to be projected on the "curved" screen for a correct constant hight image - going across the surface. (Given that the screen has the correct curve angle as the original Cinerama screen specification would call for.) The illusion of cinerama projected on a flat screen being out-of-proportion, though watchable and an added novelty treat.

When viewing the smile box version on my flat 110" home theater screen, although I was impressed with the PQ, it was obvious to me that there was an incorrect illusion of depth. An example when viewing group scenes when people on both the left and right sides of the screen were talking to people in the center, there was no eye contact, there was the illusion of looking at only the people on the opposite sides and this was pronounced.
Not the case with the letterboxed version as people looked at who they were talking to.

Paul

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

I am really looking forward to picking this up. Back in 1997, our art-house theater in Dayton, Ohio called the Neon Movies redid the theater and hooked up all of John Harvey's Cinerama equipment (which he had installed in his house previously!).

I was in college at the time and wanted to go experience Cinerama for myself, but honestly did not expect to really enjoy the film they were showing. I was never big on Westerns and in my snarky twentysomething way, I just thought it would be a neat experience but that I would be bored.

Instead, I was captivated. None of my theatergoing experience prepared me for Cinerama. We got there very early to ensure a "sweet spot" sitting in the middle. I felt like I was sitting inside the movie, which turned out to be so much fun and never bored me for a second.

I haven't seen the film again since that day 11 years ago, so I can't wait to test it out on my HDTV. Even if it replicates a small fraction of the fun I had that day in Dayton, it will be worth it.

BTW, if anybody is interested in that short-lived Cinerama experience in Dayton, Leonard Maltin wrote this article about his journey to the Neon Movies in 1997:

Leonard Maltin's MOVIE CRAZY

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Paul,

I just use the Blu-Ray and expand the edges to a bigger height than in the smilebox version throught the convergence controls on my CRT projector. I currently use a screen that is a little over 14ft wide measured along the curve and almost 20" deep - still much less than a cinerama screen but it is already curved around my seating position and it would not be such a good idea to go much beyond that.

That way I get the illusion of a screen that has a larger curvature than the one I use and the feeling of depth that I get from the flat version of the movie is substantial.

Oliver

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Given I had mentioned the minor cropping with the Smilebox version,
I thought it worth sharing Martin Hart's comments, before anyone may
become concerned with any loss of information with that version. His
comments also clear up why the letterbox version is as wide as it is.


Marty's comments are reprinted below:
---------------------------------------------------

The new DVD/Blu-Ray release of "How The West Was Won" is going to
confuse the hell out of people who try to get definitive statistics on
aspect ratios and other non-essential things.

Fact: The maximum practical aspect ratio for Cinerama is 2.59:1. As
such, there is still some image area on the print that is not shown on
the screen.


Fact: The DVD and Blu-Ray discs show HTWWW with an aspect ratio of
2.89:1. There is no cropping of the top or bottom of the image beyond
what is normally cut off by the normal projector aperture dimensions.


So where did this extra image come from?


The Cinerama camera has aperture dimensions that allows the photographed
image to actually go beyond the perforations of the film negative. The
Cinerama film printers do not copy that much width to the release print.


Early in the preparation of the new video release of the film, Dave
Strohmaier recommended that WHV scan the maximum possible width from the
negatives in order to have more real estate to work with when working
with the panel joins. So all three films were scanned perf to perf.
This made no dimensional difference between the center panel and the two
side panels but it did provide previously unseen image on the extreme
edges of the Able and Charlie panels.


This was possible only because WHV scanned from the original camera
negatives. Had they scanned from an interpositive or internegative it
would not be possible to get as much width in each panel because of the
normal cropping designed into the Cinerama system.


It's that simple.


Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museum
American WideScreen Museum - provided as a public service by Martin Hart
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

So the SmileBox version would still be 2.59:1, right?

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Close to it. The comparison of the letterboxed to the Smilebox - (from the Cinerama Adventure Documentary) on the SD version shown on another thread removed about 5% on each side. So 90% of 2.89 is 2.60. But, I don't have the BD so I can't compare. I understand from Dave Stromahier that the Smilebox on the BD shows more picture info than the Smilebox on Cinerama Adventure. So it might be more than 2.6

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

There are at least three major sequences in that film that work
so much better in the smilebox version: The raft in the current,
the buffalo stampede and the train robbery. In smilebox, the viewer
is more immersed in the action than standard widescreen.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Okay, you've convinced me to get it (even though I'm not a great Westerns fan). Doesn't get released in the UK until the 29th though

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

This was sent to me privately and I thought I would share...

HOW SMILEBOX CAME ABOUT

Cinerama was not the gimmick many people think it was, gimmick or fads don't last 20 years and also have several titles in the number on box office category. The whole town of Hollywood helped me to make this historic documentary from major studios to the smallest of film libraries as well as several high end LA post production and effects houses. They all did this for free, imagine in Hollywood, free!

One of the results of doing this project was that the original Cinerama 3 panel process was installed in two American cities, Seattle and in Hollywood. Oh and yes when it is shown on occasion at either of these two cities. I and 3 other historian projection volunteers are in the booth running it. People often have tears in their eyes afterwards when they come to the projection booth to visit us after the show to shake our hands. I guess you could say that I and my projectionist pals have seen 3 panel and 70mm Cinerama more often and anyone other than perhaps the few remaining retired Cinerama projectionist who ran it everyday in the old days.

One of the things we wanted to do in the documentary was to show people how different/special the Cinerama experience was, as one would have to be about 50+ years old to have seen it. Many young people would simply laugh at a letterboxed image of the three panels on the screen saying "what's so special about this, where is this curve you keep talking about" and I would not blame them. So we had award winning 3D graphics experts, digital engineers, Oscar winning cinematographers, film historians you name it get involve with creating a "look" that we could use for the Cinerama shots in our 16 x 9 HD documentary. We wanted this effect/treatment to be what people saw back then, although admittedly not from the first 10 rows, as most people didn't see it from those rows anyway, those were the 3.00+ seats. After about two months of testing, and trying several things, including projecting the original 3 panel Cinerama focus charts on the Seattle Cinerama 146 degree screen checking for horizontal and vertical distortions, we came up with the SmileBox process for the documentary. We needed to take full advantage of the standard HD 16 x 9 frame and fill it edge to edge and yet have a 146 degree effect that would approximate what people saw in Cinerama theaters. Yes it has its limitations to be sure, but within these limitations we do feel we have succeeded. Next we showed it to several film historians and to the Cinerama Corporation itself. Cinerama still exists as a relatively inactive division of Pacific Theaters here in California. When we showed the first test on the "flat" screen at Arclight Cinemas in Hollywood everyone was amazed at how effective the SmileBox process was in recreating a Cinerama like effect on a flat screen. Most of our documentary is archival footage, old newsreels, interviews etc and they are all in 4x3 inside of 16X9 so when Cinerama shots appear they are both wide and curved. One funny incident happened at the Palm Springs film festival screening where a few women had to cover their eyes when the roller coaster scene appeared in Smilebox, they told me after the screening they were getting very dizzy. Funny, this often happens at the actual 3 panel Cinerama screenings at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood.

This brings me to How The West Was Won and the use of Smilebox in the September Blue Ray release that will include Cinerama Adventure. The Blue Ray package will include the letterboxed version and the Smilebox version of HTWWW and both will be fully restored and will look fantastic. Warner's thought it would be a good idea to have HTWWW in Smilebox as an extra version for those who want to recreate the Cinerama look on their flat screens, I feel the bigger screen the better it works. They are going the extra mile in an
effort to please the film lover and hope it will.

Sure Smilebox may not be for everyone but due to the response we have gotten for Cinerama Adventure many people will enjoy it. Due to the fact that Smilebox was developed for free at a major effects house in Hollywood we are likewise making it available to Warner's release for free. I hope this gives you a little background on how Smilebox came about and that it was painstakingly developed with lots of expert imput. I consider myself a bit of a perfectionist and believe me I have seen Cinerama from every seat in the house (front, side and back row) at all 3 existing Cinerama theaters, Seattle, Bradford Media Museum,UK, and the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood and Smilebox will approximate a Cinerama effect on flat 16 x 9 screens.

Dave Strohmaier
Producer, Director, Editor, Cinerama Adventure
http://www.cineramaadventure.com

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Ron, thanks for sharing that it is a great read.


Well, I don't if my wife is on board, but my resolve is weakening-- actually it is on life-support as I'm planning to order it this evening.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

I've been busy this week, so I haven't had a chance to pick this up yet... I did catch the "Cinerama Adventure" documentary two years ago at a local theater (big shout-out to the Hollywood Theater in Portland, Oregon), so I've just gotta have this. I have tomorrow off, so I'll be hitting my local CostCo to get it cheap... if they don't have it, I'll happily pony up the extra cash and get it at Best Buy.

Sight unseen, I expect this'll be my favorite Blu-ray release of the year.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Okay, David...we're in this together. As you place your order tonight, I picked up a copy at my local Best Buy.

For anyone else going to Best Buy...make sure you look for "Best Buy Insider"booklets scattered throughout the DVD & BD section. Inside the back cover are two coupons: one for 10% off any single BD purchase. The other is for double Reward Zone points on a BD purchase. They say one coupon per transaction, but my checker used both without reservation.

My wife actually encouraged me on this one. I think it was the subject matter and list of actors which intrigued her. Or maybe she feels guilty for all the new clothes she has recently purchased!

I can't wait to fire it up...but I'll need to set aside a reasonable chunk of time apparently!

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

I set aside an evening tonight to watch the Smilebox version of HOW THE WEST WAS WON. I could not have been more impressed with the transfer or the almost hallucinatory effect of the Smilebox while viewing the film.

After all of those years with the dim laserdisc and cropped looking, nonanamorphic DVD, watching this was like watching the film anew.

I haven't even begun to investigate disc one. But just with this viewing tonight, this seems like the Blu-ray of the year for me.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

This sounds like a fantastic release!

Anyone know if it's region locked? I'm unable to find that piece of information anywhere on the net.

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

No region coding for Warner Blu-Rays - Enjoy

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

Finally, a reason to get a Blu-ray player!

Re: A few words about...™ How the West Was Won -- in Blu-ray

This one and the new Godfather trilogy made me decide not to wait any longer.
I'm getting the Panasonic DMP-BD50 - and I'm not even waiting for the newer BD55 model!


Cees