A few words about...™ Kill Bill: Volumes 1 & 2 -- in Blu-ray - Page 2

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Accurate quotes, but a bit meaningless in that form and out of context.

My position has always been simple.

In the high definition arena of home theater we had HD and BD, with the latter rushed to market.

Both were essentially "holding systems," or buckets if you will.

One, BD, had the ability we were told, to eventually hold more stuff. And this became fact, giving it a HUGE advantage over its competitor.

Whatever the studios decided to pour into those buckets defined them, and set their attributes as recognized by the public.

Both formats came out of the gate stumbling.

Problematic masters from Sony; bad chipsets from Samsung; 1080i transfers from Warner.

With two systems available, the buying public... weren't.

Both overcame their initial problems.

When Warner ended the competition, and Toshiba withdrew, it was all up to those filling the Blu-ray buckets to position the system to make it a no-brainer purchase.

For about six months things progressed well, with an expanding consumer base. Then within 30 days three major releases arrived, which defied all logic, and flew in the face of one of the most basic points set forth by the Blu-ray concept -- near theatrical quality in the home.

As a fierce supporter of Blu-ray, my fear was that the public -- which should be able to purchase or pre-order Blu software simply because it has the Blu-ray logo on it, and KNOW that it would be a quality release -- might pull back, and seeing these releases might consider throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.

And yes, the problems absolutely needed to be reported, making the point that Blu-ray supporters were best to steer clear from three problematic Blu-ray pieces of software.

And, that the Blu-ray system itself was sound.

Someone had poured garbage into the bucket, and this was not a good thing.

There is a bond of trust between the consumer and those that publish via an electronic format that quality will not be an issue. The public wants simplicity.

Once it becomes an issue, that bond is broken.

That is my concern.

And it made Blu-ray as a format look "dumbed down," with releases that "looked bad."

If you do your research, you'll find that HD freedom fighters were quick to pick up on it, posting in not always obvious ways. But those posts are available to make potential Blu-ray consumers think twice about finally making the big purchase.

And THAT is what we don't need.

One of the studios that made what can be considered an error of judgment was Disney in releasing a technically crippled, old master on BD of Gangs of New York -- an important film.

The release of Kill Bill brings them back to the stellar heights that can be accomplished via the Blu-ray system.

That is where they and the other studios belong.

If Disney doesn't make the Gangs error again with Cold Mountain, which was created by the same post house, all should continue to be well.

RAH

Originally Posted by Xylon

No excuses. No head in the sand syndrome. They may call it hyperbole by format supporters but to HT enthusiasts its well within reason.

Originally Posted by TravisR

There's a big difference between 'head in the sand' and people who aren't willing to run for the pitchfork and torches after reading reading one post from a self-proclaimed expert or making a diagnosis after seeing a screencap or the people who make "I zoomed 400x at 1:08:00 and I think I see some DNR!!!!!!!!!!" posts or the ones who are parrots and just read someone else's post and they keep reciting it.

I'm not trying to say that you fall into those categories but just because someone doesn't go crazy immediately doesn't mean that they aren't HT enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

For about six months things progressed well, with an expanding consumer base. Then within 30 days three major releases arrived, which defied all logic, and flew in the face of one of the most basic points set forth by the Blu-ray concept -- near theatrical quality in the home.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

As a fierce supporter of Blu-ray, my fear was that the public -- which should be able to purchase or pre-order Blu software simply because it has the Blu-ray logo on it, and KNOW that it would be a quality release -- might pull back, and seeing these releases might consider throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

And yes, the problems absolutely needed to be reported, making the point that Blu-ray supporters were best to steer clear from three problematic Blu-ray pieces of software.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

Once it becomes an issue, that bond is broken.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

That is my concern.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

And it made Blu-ray as a format look "dumbed down," with releases that "looked bad."

If you do your research, you'll find that HD freedom fighters were quick to pick up on it, posting in not always obvious ways. But those posts are available to make potential Blu-ray consumers think twice about finally making the big purchase.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

And THAT is what we don't need.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

If Disney doesn't make the Gangs error again with Cold Mountain, which was created by the same post house, all should continue to be well.

RAH

Originally Posted by Edwin-S

The word "censored" seems to be rather a strong one to use when referring to the black and white sequence in "Kill Bill 1". Did they force him to do that sequence in B&W or could it fall under the term "artistic licence"? The scene is there in all of its viciousness, just the color was removed. Does that really equate to complete removal or suppression?

Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair

This, again, is where I'm troubled. [RAH] say BD has failings, yet when "HD (sic) freedom fighters" say them, it has negative connotations too you. Don't your negative assessments of BD product: "make potential Blu-ray consumers think twice about finally making the big purchase"?

Originally Posted by Douglas Monce

One of the reasons that Psycho (1960) was shot in b&w rather than color was because it was felt that the blood in the shower scene would be too shocking. I believe it was that thinking that prompted the use of B&W in KB. It was probably that or radically cut the scene down.

I don't know why the color hasn't been restored on a video version as the rating wouldn't be an issue, unless Tarantino just decided he liked it in B&W.

By the way, in the 60s and 70s hong kong films were shown on American tv in black and white to cover all the blood, so in effect, doing it in black and white is a choice that solves a problem (getting an NC-17) and also pays homage to the old hong kong films that used the same device for the same reason.

Doug

Originally Posted by cafink

...I'm glad to see the U.S. theatrical version preserved on Blu-ray disc. Of course, I'd also like to see the international versions with the full-color sequence and other changes.

Originally Posted by PaulDA

I think you are misunderstanding RAH's comments. He is not saying BD has failings--he is saying the releases fail to live up to BD's potential. There is an important distinction between the two points of view.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

If you do your research, you'll find that HD freedom fighters were quick to pick up on it, posting in not always obvious ways. But those posts are available to make potential Blu-ray consumers think twice about finally making the big purchase.

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

And it made Blu-ray as a format look "dumbed down," with releases that "looked bad."

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

That said, there are still an unfortunate number of people out there, unhappy that Blu-ray is our high def format, who are going to do whatever comparisons are necessary in a continued attempt to bash Blu-ray.

Originally Posted by David Wilkins

I'm still trying to figure out why a welcome installment of 'A Few Words About...', turned into a two page argument over titles and issues that have nothing to do with this thread.

Originally Posted by cafink

Changing to black and white for the "House of Blue Leaves" sequence was an artistic decision. By all accounts, it seems to have been prompted by practical/political/business concerns (chiefly, getting an "R" rating), but the method by which these concerns were met is still an artistic choice, isn't it? As such, I'm glad to see the U.S. theatrical version preserved on Blu-ray disc. Of course, I'd also like to see the international versions with the full-color sequence and other changes. It's unfortunate that the rights issue apparently makes it unlikely that they'll ever both be included on a single release. Nevertheless, I intend to purchase both the U.S. release and the Japanese version when/if it becomes available (just as I have done on DVD), as I believe both are artistically valid and worth owning.

Originally Posted by cafink

Changing to black and white for the "House of Blue Leaves" sequence was an artistic decision.

Originally Posted by Yumbo

"A Time to Kill". "What about Bob?"

Originally Posted by Jari K

Do you have a proper link/quote etc about that? I don´t claim, that it was 100% "because MPAA" or something (I´m sure that in some ways QT "approved" this alternate version), but I have my doubts that QT would actually prefer this sequence in b&w (at least after seeing it in color myself)...

Originally Posted by MatS

why are we to believe the b&w version wasn't the original intent with the color version being the "alternate" version

Originally Posted by MatS

I do know that the screenplay for KB has the following written in it

Kill Bill (2003) - Screenplays for You - free movie scripts and screenplays

wouldn't this have been written prior to filming? (draft script)
also we all know how effective the opening sequence was in b&w as well so there was intention to use this stylistic approach in the movie

why are we to believe the b&w version wasn't the original intent with the color version being the "alternate" version

Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair

If it "was" filmed in B&W, how is it all so in color? QT colorizing "KB", blasphemy! (JJ)
I don't believe it was filmed in B&W.
However, it truly does lead into the original artistic intent argument (which previously I'd never bought into cause of the Japanese version).
GREAT find!!!

Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong

Has QT himself ever shed light on this matter anyway? Any good quotes of him talking about this?

_Man_