Superman Rebooted - Page 4

Re: Superman Rebooted

Right there with ya. Very confused about this. Didn't Superman Returns earn over 300 mil in the states alone?[EDIT: Just found out it did about 200 mil, and the budget was $270 million. Wow, how the hell did WB approve a nearly 300 million dollar budget?]

As for villains, Lex Luthor IS the only villain worthwhile in the Superman universe. Everyone else is too sci-fi, and kiddie for a Superman movie.

I for one will skip any future Supe movies. This reboot is unwarranted, and completely sidesteps common sense.

Re: Superman Rebooted

I agree with what Will_B wrote above, Returns was the first Superman story where I felt that Clark/Superman was really alone, alienated because of his choice to leave for 5 years, until he learns about his son. He risked losing everything important in his life to learn more about his past. Singer and Co brought added depth to the character and made him seem more human in the process. This is why I love the movie so much. Yes, the movie has it's flaws, the pacing and being too much like S:TM (my favourite Superhero movie) but I find SR gets better on repeat viewings. It was the first movie I saw in the theaters twice since Return of the Jedi.

I'd love a sequel but if Warners goes a different route,as long as it isn't Superman III and IV bad. I'll see it. I love Superman.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Caught SR on cable the other day. Still a great movie, IMO, and the best in the series since the first Donner film, which remains the champ.

I don't think we need to worry about comedy elements seeping in, like in III, but I do worry about dumbing it down (which is what a Michael Bay would do). We need smarter films, not ones for the lowest common denominator. Dark Knight should have proved that, and that you can be successful without being dumb.

I won't see a Michael Bay Superman or even one that apes his style.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Im all for a nude WW scene

Re: Superman Rebooted

Good news. I absolutely HATED Returns. To me it was a pale imitation of the first Donner film (which I loved) with a superboy plot element thrown in. Bosworth was terrible. Spacey was terrible. And the plot stunk (Lex involved in ANOTHER land scheme?).

Can't wait to see who is given the reins.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Depends on who's playing Wonder Woman. There's been some crazy crap in Hollywood lately...

Re: Superman Rebooted

I prefer a reboot too. I don't agree with the "dark" route, but definitely make it serious. Lose the campy suit and the cheese. The red tights were cool thirty years ago, kind of silly now, IMO (notice the IMO).

Re: Superman Rebooted

First of all, I agree that Superman cannot be done "Dark" like Batman. They are 2 completely different thematical tales.

I've been thinking about this over the past couple of days and I think I know what I would like to see when it comes to a Superman reboot. I really think they should focus on the "Overgrown Boyscout" aspect. Even so far as to play up the naivity of the character. Yes, he's a survivor from a dead planet, but he was still raised by the Kents. They would have instilled in him a "Country Boy" sense of morality. This doesn't take away from the Kryptonian knowledge that he may/may not receive, but I think enhances it.

If it is a reboot, I agree with the above. It should start with his entrance into Metropolis and how he handles the real world of the big city. Keep it localized to the city for which he ends up being the champion. His trusting nature should be challenged and his sense of morality should be swayed. In essence, how does a man hold to his principles in the real world and does he become jaded.

If they can focus on this aspect, I think the inevitable pairing of Supes and Batman would be pretty dramatic and the conflict of viewpoints would be pretty amazing.

BTW, This would be the interesting way that they could reboot Luthor as well. A corporate leader with a lack of ethics, all the power that money can buy, but none of the power from within. I like the thought from another post where Luthor planned on being the cities god, but was usurped by Superman. What that would do to an ego the size of Luthor's is a pretty interesting plot point.

Just some reboot thoughts.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Why does Warner keep trying to go back to the well with this character? There is nothing you can do with this character in film. Superman is just a useless character for translation to film. He can't be made dark because his personality and extensive backstory cannot allow it. OTOH, there isn't any dramatic theme big enough to challenge the character. He is too strong, too good, and too perfect.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Last I heard, Johnny Depp was being signed to play WW.
He has amazing range, I just know he'll pull it off.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Agreed. Nothing can really stop him, until they pull out the all powerful kryptonite. Then we know that superman falls down, finds a way around it, then kicks a little ass, but not too much ass because it has to stay interesting. It's all way to predictable for me. I need a really great story. The last one was a snooze fest, IMO (!)

Re: Superman Rebooted

Why does it have to be something stopping him? Why can't it be a moral dilemma?

What if he sparks a controversy that gets out of hand, or a choice that he makes backfires? There is still a good story to tell.

In fact, Superman II didn't fall back on the Kryptonite story, and quite honestly, could have been one of the greatest comic book films of all time, if not for the behind the scenes politics involved.

Re: Superman Rebooted

I agree, doesn't have to be something stopping him. It all starts with the story.

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That's true, Superman does not necessairly need to be in danger of dying

With the exeption of "Batman Begins" I would be hard pressed to think of a time when Batman was ever in any real danger of being killed. And he doesn't have any super powers.

As far as controvery goes, there could be some ideas there. As horrible as it turned out, there was actually a seed of an interesting idea behind Superman IV.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Do they want to open the can of worms of the world and how really screwed up humanity is? And how does Superman, with his god-like powers, factor into that?

Does he have a moral responsibility to save everyone?

If a character like Superman was actually put into the real world today, he'd probably be deified, celebrated, reviled, called the anti-Christ, despised, etc. etc. all in equal parts. Some people would probably try and kill him, governments and even the CIA would likely be worried that he'd try to assert himself as an all-powerful ruler, etc. etc.

Here's a whopper of a moral conundrum -- does Superman have the moral obligation of asserting himself "ruler" of Earth? To save humanity from destroying itself? You may say no, but what if that could save millions of lives? He is after all incorruptible, unfailingly good ... right? Why shouldn't he run the world then, versus say corrupt politicians and power-hungry tyrants? What if the majority of the earth's population wanted that? Isn't he the lesser of two evils?

There is some deeper material there that they could explore.

I think for the villain they will have to look at the comics and then pick one of the more "sci-fi-ey" villains and put a new spin on them in the context of the movie's theme, the same way Nolan really has made Batman's villains fit the "Begins universe" rather than trying to stay faithful note-for-note with the comic books.

Re: Superman Rebooted

I just hope they skip any type of origin story. I mean really, in this day and age, even the most uninformed person has a vague sense of who Superman is (flies, is just, stops bullets). So throw him into some action with little explanation.

Have Lex set up some crap, then reveal that Braniac was behind it all and sick Parasite on Supes so we can finally have a Knock out battle. Doing it that way, you escalte the villians so that people get used to the more sci-fi elements.

Re: Superman Rebooted

ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL!!

Superman is not dark. He is a beacon of light, for hrist's sake!

My only problem is one that many share. Donner's SUPERMAN cannot be topped, so why try? William's music IS Superman's theme and nothing else will do.

Warner Bros. has an uphill battle. They can't win on this one, no matter what they do and rebooting AGAIN will just give us HULK REDUX. A film that is destined to do ok and nothing more.

Re: Superman Rebooted

I'll never get the love for the Donner one. As a kid, and revisiting it now... it's slow, miscast (Margot Kidder is horrendous to watch), unnecessarily childish, campy... only thing good about it is the score.

If not for that stupid Kid plot point, SR was decent enough. That Superman rescuing the crashing plane bit was great. It just sucked he didn't have a decent villain to face.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Pete D- those are all rich questions and just the kind that a good filmmaker (who wants to bring this property into the 21st century) should be exploring.
In fact there is so much dramactic potential within them, that a costumed villan would likely be superfluous and silly. Superman would be as much hated and feared, as revered and idolized...probably moreso. He would do what he does because these are the values instilled in him- not by some conceptual biological parents- but by flesh and blood beings who nurtured him day in and day out. He is honouring their memory not jockeying for public approval which he knows is fickle and easily manipulated . If by 'dark' they mean to seriously inquire what the world would look like with a Superman in it (which wouldn't honestly be any more utopian than our world now) then I'm all for that. These were concepts that sailed right over Singers head, so I'm all for a more circumspect storyteller taking the reins.

Re: Superman Rebooted

We have plenty of superhero movies where the hero is hated and feared. Almost all of them, actually. I like that Superman is a symbol of hope that everyone admires. That doesn't need to change.

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It doesn't have to...if the goal is to keep the property the province of a non discerning 10 and under or "WWF RULEZ!" audience.
But if you want to treat this character seriously, certain dominoes are going to have to fall, and you have to confront the basic fact the just about every form of government in the world (especially the hierarchies of the major world religions) would feel their sovereignty or authority under threat by a being like this- including the US. Though they would likely make a big show about celebrating 'a home-team hero' in public (which has geopolitical advantages) behind the scenes you can be damned certain they would be trying to nail every aspect of this guy down...and be very anxious and on edge when they find they can't.
Comics have grown up and this stuff is going to come with the territory for all super-powered characters now- unless you are purposefully shooting for a lighter whimsical approach- which entails the very kinds of elements many people now profess to hate about the first Donner film.
Superman should still conduct himself with a wink and a smile with 'regular folk', but swirling around him are going to be all kinds of little traps designed to chip away at his image from anyone who feels under threat by him- which includes a lot more power players than just one big corporate bald guy.
Superman IS an idealistic hero and he should always be so (not a deadbeat dad or casual once a month father-ugh). But the problem is that genuine idealism is going to illuminate the insidiousness of the simple minded, empty jingoistic kind that is so prevelant. People went ballistic when they thought the phrase "American Way" was being dissed. I think their heads would explode if they ever had to see Superman purposefully go against US interests

Re: Superman Rebooted

...for a greater good.

Re: Superman Rebooted

If you honestly kind of humor the situation ... if Superman was real, the CIA would immediately be commissioned to start gathering Kryptonite to kill him -- even if he was a goody two shoes. But they'd have to make it look like an accident because no doubt he'd be beloved by millions of the public and have a very strong following, obviously a religious like following most likely.

I mean if Batman/Bruce Wayne was struggling with copy-cat wannabes in Gotham, Superman would have it 1000x worse with people claiming him to be a religious deity and worshipping him and what not.

The threat he would pose to the government would be very interesting also; such a being would be a huge compromise to national security. He could basically wake up one morning and overthrow the government if he wanted to and the military wouldn't be able to do anything about it. He would have to be killed by those in power, and it wouldn't just be Lex Luthor leading the charge -- every government suit from the president on down would want the guy dead.

Re: Superman Rebooted

I think the one character a reboot needs more than anything else is...Krypto.
Not that he has to be super-powered. Just a dog that Superman rescues and decides to adopt. What Kal-el needs is a mute sounding board who isn't going to 'fix' his problems the way an all powerful Jor-el or his folksy farm parents would. He needs someone that he can muse to about Lois or about the forces that he thinks are conspiring against him-a dog would be a friendly ear keeping the atmosphere light, but at the same time showing how alone he actually is. Alone, but not lonely-sensitive but not mopey and depressed.
This character needs a dog more than it needs a Darkseid smackdown.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Wow. And you didn't like Hackman in the Luthor role?

Childish? I guess I was watching a different version than you. It was quite gritty in spots. Children and adults can enjoy this film equally, the sign of a great film!
Miscast?? Christopher Reeve as Superman....yeah, big mistake

Donner's Superman is fantastic. It deserves every bit of praise it receives. Truly epic on every level.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Whut did U say after this? My 10 and under brain couldn't comprehend.

Lot of condescending jerks in this thread.

Re: Superman Rebooted

Superman vs Darkseid or Brainiac = Im there.

And yes I think both can work on film. Both would also carry on with the why the world needs Superman theme of Singers film and carry a Superman film/story foward.

Get away from his origin and forget about Luthor. A reboot is a big mistake.

Re: Superman Rebooted

TerryRL can confirm this, but the reason SR had legs was because it continually played in IMAX 3D well into the fall. And I doubt those IMAX theaters were letting it play past its sell date since they would have been losing money otherwise.