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Superman Rebooted - Page 10

post #271 of 413
10/27/08 at 4:26pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Mayer
Of course he knows she was pregnant. He is Superman. Via Kingdom Come, they indicated he could hear cells collide if he wanted, so he knows his junk worked on Lois.

D-E-A-D-B-E-A-T. And an abandoner. And a peeping tom. And a sissy.

Need I go on?

That might canon for the comics, but it clearly isn't in the Singer film.

I think the other thing Singer wanted to do was the tie Marlon Brando from Superman I into Returns, and thus the whole father-son story arc. Again it sounds good on paper, it just is one of those things that doesn't work on screen.

Actually I think a Superman that knowingly goes around knocking up women would probably have played better with modern audiences, lol.

Still though I don't think Superman Returns really was any worse than the majority of comic books films. Can you really say Daredevil or Fantastic 4 or either one of the Hulk films or even the first X-Men was leaps and bounds better? Returns was just in that categorey rather than the upper echelon of Batman Begins/TDK/Spider-Man/Spidey 2/X-Men 2.
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post #272 of 413
10/27/08 at 4:53pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Come to think of it Superman Returns was a dark and gloomy film wasn't it? It was even more humourless than The Dark Knight. Kevin Spacey's Lex Luthor was unlikable and the films nasty low point is the thrashing Supes gets from Lex and his cronies. Any wonder the film failed to soar?

That whole badly misjudged sequence with the thug playing piano with the kid for instance, making the guy seem sympathetic and than... I mean how pointless was all that? The entire movie was misjudged right from the get go. The only thing Singer seemed to get right was Superman himself, Brandon Routh had the Chris Reeve look down pat but Routh just wasn't the most charismatic of actors.



A reboot would be interesting but if they make it even gloomier than Returns... I don't know. Maybe I should start reading the comics again.
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post #273 of 413
10/27/08 at 4:57pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

The one thing about SR is the "beating of Superman" scene was over-the-top violent IMO ... it just sorta comes out of nowhere, that's an example of tone problems.

Both of Singer's X-Men films were fairly humorless too though. I didn't really understand the point of casting Kal Penn and then giving his character zero lines.
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post #274 of 413
10/27/08 at 10:03pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

It's no more violent or out of left field than mere mortal Clark getting bloodied and beaten up by that bully at the diner in Superman II.
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post #275 of 413
10/28/08 at 12:24am

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverWook
It's no more violent or out of left field than mere mortal Clark getting bloodied and beaten up by that bully at the diner in Superman II.

Erm, I dunno about that, that scene "worked" because we have to see Superman bleed there to show he's really lost his powers.

But it's still a pretty comical scene when you really think about it.

I think that scene in SR doesn't work because up until that point Spacey plays Luthor kinda like Hackman ... he's not really *that* bad of a guy, he just wants world domination (via real estate scams apparently). But then to see him just viciously beat Superman basically the death ... it's a bit much. They needed to establish that character as more violent/sinister earlier on in the film for that to really have worked.
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post #276 of 413
10/28/08 at 4:33am

Re: Superman Rebooted

Some interesting numbers on SR:

Superman Returns - Box Office Data, Movie News, Cast Information - The Numbers
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post #277 of 413
10/28/08 at 4:53pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Not that bad of a guy? Hackman's Luthor was going to blow up Hackensack New Jersey for the sheer hell of it, not to mention millions of deaths from California falling into the ocean. All for the sake of a real estate scam.

Superman: Is that how a warped brain like yours gets its kicks? By planning the death of innocent people?
Lex Luthor: No, by causing the death of innocent people.

And he was going to let Superman slowly drown in the swimming pool with that Kryptonite around his neck.

It's mentioned in Superman several guards were killed in the theft of the Kryptonite meteorite as well.

Luthor is more than willing to be vicious if it serves his purposes.
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post #278 of 413
10/29/08 at 11:10am

Re: Superman Rebooted

Mark Millar is speaking more about the idea he's been pitching for a Superman Trilogy.

Empire: Movie News - Exclusive: Mark Millar Talks Superman

Quote:
“It’s gonna be like Michael Corleone in the Godfather films, the entire story from beginning to end, you see where he starts, how he becomes who he becomes, and where that takes him. The Dark Knight showed you can take a comic book property and make a serious film, and I think the studios are ready to listen to bigger ideas now.”

“The problem with Superman Returns was like releasing Star Wars in ’77, The Empire Strikes Back in ’80 and then waiting 28 years to release Return of the Jedi, it wasn’t relevant. I understand what Bryan Singer was trying to do, to pay homage to Richard Donner’s original vision, but I think you should pay homage by doing something completely different.”

“I want to start on Krypton, a thousand years ago, and end with Superman alone on Planet Earth, the last being left on the planet, as the yellow sun turns red and starts to supernova, and he loses his powers."
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post #279 of 413
10/29/08 at 11:17am

Re: Superman Rebooted

What a wonderful way to end a Superman trilogy

Could the story be more morose?
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post #280 of 413
10/29/08 at 11:24am

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
“I want to start on Krypton, a thousand years ago, and end with Superman alone on Planet Earth, the last being left on the planet, as the yellow sun turns red and starts to supernova, and he loses his powers."

Hey I kinda like that, but wait a minute, Superman still around billions of years from now? Is he immortal? Does he not age? He did age normally in the films did he not? Unless he's somehow transported into the far future...
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post #281 of 413
10/29/08 at 11:46am

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Christou
Hey I kinda like that, but wait a minute, Superman still around billions of years from now? Is he immortal? Does he not age? He did age normally in the films did he not? Unless he's somehow transported into the far future...

I was under the impression he ages slowly, but not 1000 years slowly. You see him with his hair graying in KINGDOM COME, but he's still Superman, with all the power. If you want to do a film like that, an entire life story, just rip off Alan Moores run on "SUPEREME : STORY OF THE YEAR", which is probably the better Superman story done, not only to read but it cleared up 70 years of comic book continuity in 12 issues, which DC comics hasn't been able to do in 12 mini-series.

I am all for not acknowledging the Donner films. Still don't get the love for those, and Reeves kinda sucked, compared to George Reeves anyways.
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post #282 of 413
10/29/08 at 11:48am

Re: Superman Rebooted

Current comics continuity may have him not aging once he reached 30 or so (although, honestly, good luck figuring out what's in current DC continuity, especially where Superman is concerned, these days - I think he's had two or three soft resets since Byrne's "The Man of Steel"); Jeph Loeb did a story where he and Wonder Woman fought a war in another world for a thousand years and Grant Morrison's "DC 1,000,000" had him still around during the 853rd Century. Of course, there was also the Silver Age Superman of Earth-2 and the "Kingdom Come" Superman kicking around in JSA, and they had silver temples despite being roughly 50-60.

In short: It's wide open and someone looking to make a movie with a basically new continuity shouldn't be worried about contradicting something definitive.

Of course, they also should not employ Mark Millar, a one-trick pony who is far more skilled at self-promotion than anything else these days.
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post #283 of 413
10/29/08 at 12:08pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

I did enjoy Mark Millar's "Wanted" comic book series, recommended by comic fan Russell Grant. One of the few comics I've read in recent years. Or isn't this the same Mark Millar?

I'm a huge fan of Donner's Superman the Movie and to a lesser extent Lester's followup, and I'm not a fan of the Superman II Donner cut, interesting though it was. That said I would welcome any movie and storyline that has nothing to do with those movies. Hundreds of comics hundreds of Superman stories. Let's have something new, something unexpected and if at all possible NO Lex Luthor and his real estate schemes.
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post #284 of 413
10/29/08 at 12:29pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Same one; the guy is, admittedly, polarizing. I am, to say the least, not a fan of his work for the past ten years; it tends to strike me as the sort of sensationalized crud that is bigger, louder, and more obnoxious than everything around it but somehow gets cachet through pop-culture references and a knack for mixing bigger-than-life explosions with the sort of "realism" that is cynical and mainly consists of pushing the envelope on sex and violence enough to stand out but not quite enough to get slapped down. He strikes me as a positively toxic hack, but there's apparently a market for what he does.
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post #285 of 413
10/29/08 at 1:34pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

I think Millar is one of the braver writers out there right now. The great comics always reflected the times, and the world we live in is a sexy, cynical, violent times. I think it's great he's easy to fit 60 year old characters into our times without compromising the base ideals that made them great.

And like Christou said, there are 1000's of stories, pick a good run of the comics to adapt. Worked for the Batman film, which basically took aspects from great comic book runs and kept the tone. If they are going to keep it in steap with the Donners, then do a silver age Superman story with him getting all wonky from different coloured kryptonite. Be 1000X more entertaining then Lex basically being Trump with a death wish.

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post #286 of 413
10/29/08 at 2:18pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
Same one; the guy is, admittedly, polarizing. I am, to say the least, not a fan of his work for the past ten years; it tends to strike me as the sort of sensationalized crud that is bigger, louder, and more obnoxious than everything around it but somehow gets cachet through pop-culture references and a knack for mixing bigger-than-life explosions with the sort of "realism" that is cynical and mainly consists of pushing the envelope on sex and violence enough to stand out but not quite enough to get slapped down. He strikes me as a positively toxic hack, but there's apparently a market for what he does.
So I'm guessing that you're not reading Kick-Ass?
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post #287 of 413
10/29/08 at 2:22pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
So I'm guessing that you're not reading Kick-Ass?

Which is also coming to a theater near you.
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post #288 of 413
10/29/08 at 3:03pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell G
I am all for not acknowledging the Donner films. Still don't get the love for those, and Reeves kinda sucked, compared to George Reeves anyways.

Perhaps the Donner films appealed to a much wider audience than just comic book geeks, hence the love? I haven't even read a Superman book in years.

Just as George Reeves embodied Superman to kids of the 1950's, Christopher Reeve was the Superman I grew up with. They're both good though!
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post #289 of 413
10/29/08 at 5:00pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

As far as outlooks on life go, I am the polar opposite of Mark Millar. Still, I'm enjoying his current work. Kick-Ass, Old Man Logan, 1985 . . . it's all good.

I'm not an expert on Superman, but I have read a few "older than time" Superman stories. One of them had him in a basic love/hate relationship with Lex Luthor, who was basically a cyborg by then. Everything they had ever cared about was long since dead and gone and the only thing they had left was their hatred for each other. The hatred was more on Lex's side, of course.

Also, I've only read Johns' stuff from Brainiac through the Krypton special, but I think he's doing a good job. Again, I don't read much Superman, so maybe I wouldn't like the rollbacks and changes if I did. He's good on Green Lantern, too.
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post #290 of 413
11/9/08 at 8:33am

Re: Superman Rebooted

I would have no desire to watch Superman be the last man standing on Earth. Superman is supposed to be about hope- that idea doesn't cut it for me.
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post #291 of 413
11/19/08 at 12:57pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

A poster over at the Superherohype forums named Mike22 did the following gif. Whether you like Welling or not. This is pretty cool....

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post #292 of 413
11/19/08 at 1:12pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Just watched the animated "Doomsday"...

I will admit, the best two superhero movies I've ever seen are animated.. "Batman Mask of the Phantasm" is still, for me, the greatest superhero movie ever made. It absolutely nails everything I love about Batman.

But "Doomsday" while not it MotP league, it better then any Superman Returns by miles. It's more adult, the action is riveting, the storyline covers all the bases, and it just works. It's a really solid story that absolutely nails what it's supposed to.

So, get the guys who do the animated movies and give them live action. If the dialog in the live action were as good as the animated films, I'd be there. Lex Luthor in "Doomsday" is not just sinister, he's a truly terrifying cold-blooded villain. The scene in which he shoots dead an informant without thinking about it.. whoa.

Give me that kind of script for a Superman film, and I'll shell out.
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post #293 of 413
11/19/08 at 2:13pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
A poster over at the Superherohype forums named Mike22 did the following gif. Whether you like Welling or not. This is pretty cool....

Pretty kewl. But is Welling up to doing it?
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post #294 of 413
11/19/08 at 2:30pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
A poster over at the Superherohype forums named Mike22 did the following gif. Whether you like Welling or not. This is pretty cool....

Man, I wish the forum allowed animated signatures, that would be mine in a hot minute.
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post #295 of 413
11/19/08 at 6:16pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Try it. Ron has one, which could be executive privilege, but Radioman has had one for a long time.
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post #296 of 413
11/19/08 at 7:03pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattCR
Just watched the animated "Doomsday"...

I will admit, the best two superhero movies I've ever seen are animated.. "Batman Mask of the Phantasm" is still, for me, the greatest superhero movie ever made. It absolutely nails everything I love about Batman.

But "Doomsday" while not it MotP league, it better then any Superman Returns by miles. It's more adult, the action is riveting, the storyline covers all the bases, and it just works. It's a really solid story that absolutely nails what it's supposed to.

So, get the guys who do the animated movies and give them live action. If the dialog in the live action were as good as the animated films, I'd be there. Lex Luthor in "Doomsday" is not just sinister, he's a truly terrifying cold-blooded villain. The scene in which he shoots dead an informant without thinking about it.. whoa.

Give me that kind of script for a Superman film, and I'll shell out.


See, not to pick a fight, but I hated Superman: Doomsday. In my eyes, was not exciting, definitely not adult, and did not deliver a story worth telling.
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post #297 of 413
11/20/08 at 2:02pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

a new trilogy might not be a bad idea and though I grew up loving the Donner superman I see their faults and can live with a fresh start.

I think however that sticking to the main mythos is important though. No need to re-think or re-imagine superman. He is loved because they got him right the first time around. Sure a few tweaks are ok but no need to over modernize him or try to cater to the most recent fans. I think Spiderman 3 was ruined by the insistance that venom be included.

Superman needs to be from Krypton, parents need to die as they send him away. raised by the kents and grows up to work at the daily planet. Bad guys are Lex, Brainiac and a few other common ennemies.

No need to get married to Lois in the first movie or even at all in a trilogy, no need for darkseid ir doomsday or for him to die and return no matter how popular that series was.

stick to the basics and do it right.
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post #298 of 413
11/20/08 at 2:11pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

I was underwhelmed by the Doomsday video as well and find it amusing that one poster finds it more adult than Superman Returns. Did not even come close to the epic story told in the comics. To each his own.

While I like Welling in Smallville, I think that is where he should stay. I would not like to see him cast in a Superman movie. Going with a relative unknown, as they did with Reeve and Routh is/was the best way to go (IMO).
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post #299 of 413
11/20/08 at 2:37pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

I always liked the idea, seen in the animated movie Last Son of Krypton, that Brainiac was the computer system on Krypton and had a hand in its destruction. Gave Brainiac a lot more depth.
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post #300 of 413
11/20/08 at 4:41pm

Re: Superman Rebooted

I like the current take, that Brainiac is an alien whom Superman had never fought or even met personally until recently. Every "Brainiac" he had encountered to date had been a machine sent out by the alien.
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