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Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

post #1 of 30
8/18/08 at 9:13am
Thread Starter 
Anybody seen a review of this disc? It's due out tomorrow, and Amazon still doesn't even have cover art.

I'm curious to hear what this "cost cutter" version of BD will look like. From the lack of info, I get the impression that they either have nothing to whistle about, or they're very poor at promoting their product.
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post #2 of 30
8/18/08 at 9:24am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Go to DVD-Basen - DVD Review Database and do a search and you will find several reviews for the Blu-ray release of The Proposition.

- Walter.
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post #3 of 30
8/18/08 at 9:38am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Wilkins
they're very poor at promoting their product.
Maybe "poor" in the sense of not having a lot of money. First Look is a small operation, and their marketing budgets are usually tiny. They rely a lot on word of mouth. The flip side is that they don't have to jack up the price of their discs to recover all those marketing dollars.

I have the disc on order, because I admired the film and the price makes it a low-risk gamble. It's the kind of film that really needs hi-def detail to come anywhere close to looking right; so I'll be interested to see how they did.

M.
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post #4 of 30
8/18/08 at 9:41am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

DVD Beaver has a review up as well:

The Proposition Blu-ray Guy Pearce Emily Watson
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post #5 of 30
8/18/08 at 9:51am
Thread Starter 

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Thanks to all.

Walter, I was unaware of that database. Thank you.

From the little I've had time to read, it does appear that First Look has something to whistle about.
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post #6 of 30
8/18/08 at 12:23pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

You're welcome, David.

My first exposure to The Proposition was the SD DVD release and I am eagerly looking forward to tomorrow's release. Not having seen it theatrically I am hoping that the impact of the film's cinematography will be enhanced by the Blu-ray presentation.

- Walter.
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post #7 of 30
8/18/08 at 12:46pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

David, I could understand your caution about buying from a distributor you don't know, with seemingly so many transfers marred with processing right now. I have the UK Tartan 2 disc SD set, which outclassed the US disc.

It appears that First Look's new blu mirrors the Tartan special features, and offers a great transfer to boot. This was up for pre-order at Family Video for about $10.40 shipping included, and was a no-brainer for me.
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post #8 of 30
8/18/08 at 1:38pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleddyn Williams
This was up for pre-order at Family Video for about $10.40 shipping included, and was a no-brainer for me.

Thanks for the heads-up. Ordered.
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post #9 of 30
8/18/08 at 1:43pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

The Proposition Blu-Ray from the UK looks very nice IMO and most will be very pleased with the picture if the same release gets out in the US.

My pet peeves with movies shot on film usually are missing grain/DNR and EE and I was not bothered by one or the other when I watched that movie,something that has been different a few times as of late.

The movie has an eerie quality to it and the Cinematography is certainly making good use of the increased resolution of the Blu-Ray format
.
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post #10 of 30
8/18/08 at 2:28pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

As my wife and I walked out of the theater after seeing The Proposition, she said, "It makes the town of Deadwood look clean and tidy!"

I really hope First Look establishes and holds to a high level of quality, because they have Paris, Je T'Aime coming to Blu-ray in a few months, and that one will be a challenge.

M.
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post #11 of 30
8/19/08 at 6:23am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Arnette
Thanks for the heads-up. Ordered.

Glad to help! i don't know why I thought the deal was over.
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post #12 of 30
8/19/08 at 1:20pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

I'll test it out today.
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post #13 of 30
8/19/08 at 2:03pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Picked it up on Blu today at BB for $14.99, great price on a fantastic film.
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post #14 of 30
8/19/08 at 7:17pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

It's fairly soft, not much detail up close. Looks 'clean'. Not sure if it's DNR.
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post #15 of 30
8/20/08 at 6:28am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

I thought some of the DVDBeaver caps looked a little clean as well. It may have been processed a bit during the digital intermediate stage, which isn't exactly an uncommon practice. Would be nice to know if the UK disc from Tartan was any different/better, though it's a lot more expensive.
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post #16 of 30
8/20/08 at 6:33am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Got mine from Family Video last night. Took a look, and my impressions were that it looked great - I didn't find it soft and no signs of EE. I compared it with the UK Tartan DVD and it blew it out of the water.

Interview extras seem to be about 70 minutes compared with the 2-disc DVD from Tartan coming in at about 90.

Trailer is different on each release - US on First Look, UK on Tartan.

Making of same on both, US also offers Deleted Scenes.

With a retail of $20, First Look are offering a fantastic package, with an image that puts many of the processed transfers we've been seeing lately to shame.
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post #17 of 30
8/20/08 at 10:53am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
I thought some of the DVDBeaver caps looked a little clean as well. It may have been processed a bit during the digital intermediate stage, which isn't exactly an uncommon practice. Would be nice to know if the UK disc from Tartan was any different/better, though it's a lot more expensive.

The Tartan has a lot of shots where there isn't really that much grain visible if any and I think something has probably been done there, then you have other scenes where it can be seen very clearly and one particular scene that looked completely fake - you might know which one I am speaking of when you see it. What I did not notice throughout the movie were scenes where closeups looked like they were robbed of detail by DNR/grain reduction as that is something that takes me out of the movie very quickly, also annoying EE was thankfully absent.

So while I think that surely some digital processing was done to the Proposition it is thankfully much less than with for example Dark City that was deemed by a lot of people to be very acceptable while I was distracted by artefacts for almost the whole length of the movie, much to my dismay.
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post #18 of 30
8/21/08 at 7:56am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

I've only had a chance to watch selected scenes, and my schedule is such that it may be a while before I can watch the film from start to finish. But it's obvious to me that this is no disc where anyone should be complaining about excessive DNR. Fine detail hasn't been scrubbed away, and the easiest way to check this is to watch a scene with John Hurt, whose aged and weather-beaten bounty hunter is one of the most memorable characters in the film. He's as animated and craggy as I remember him from the cinema.

The scenes I sampled did strike me as somewhat "cleaner" than the film image I remember, but that could be the familiar effect (especially with recent films) of home video versions being taken from a source closer to the o-neg (or DI) than the prints we get in theaters. I'll have to watch the whole film to get a better sense.

M.
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post #19 of 30
8/21/08 at 8:26am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Reuben
The scenes I sampled did strike me as somewhat "cleaner" than the film image I remember, but that could be the familiar effect (especially with recent films) of home video versions being taken from a source closer to the o-neg (or DI) than the prints we get in theaters. I'll have to watch the whole film to get a better sense.
M.

I recently had the chance to look at a print of a movie that is generally regarded as a fine example of preserving grain structure on Blu-Ray and I have to say that the film print had significantly more grain than the Blu-Ray. So my guess is that grain structure is somewhat reduced in almost every film based movie we get on Blu-Ray, it is just not always as offending as with certain titles that make it very obvious.

While I would mostly prefer no grain reduction at all I do think that relative to other releases the grain reduction on The Proposition has not been overdone to the point where it looks unnaturally clean and significant detail has been retained.
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post #20 of 30
8/21/08 at 10:02am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
I recently had the chance to look at a print of a movie that is generally regarded as a fine example of preserving grain structure on Blu-Ray and I have to say that the film print had significantly more grain than the Blu-Ray. So my guess is that grain structure is somewhat reduced in almost every film based movie we get on Blu-Ray, it is just not always as offending as with certain titles that make it very obvious.
Depending on what generation of film the HD master was transferred from, isn't it possible this was simply due to the print being one or two generations further removed from the original negative compared to the Blu-ray? If so the case could be that the print had additional grain, as opposed to the HD master having been grain-reduced.

Quote:
While I would mostly prefer no grain reduction at all I do think that relative to other releases the grain reduction on The Proposition has not been overdone to the point where it looks unnaturally clean and significant detail has been retained.
And as mentioned, I believe The Proposition was completed on a DI, and it's likely here any processing took place. Assuming there was no further major manipulation after that, then the Blu-ray would have to be considered very good, as in being faithful to the source, despite the film having been grain-reduced at some point.
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post #21 of 30
8/21/08 at 10:45am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
Depending on what generation of film the HD master was transferred from, isn't it possible this was simply due to the print being one or two generations further removed from the original negative compared to the Blu-ray? If so the case could be that the print had additional grain, as opposed to the HD master having been grain-reduced.

Not in the case that I mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
And as mentioned, I believe The Proposition was completed on a DI, and it's likely here any processing took place. Assuming there was no further major manipulation after that, then the Blu-ray would have to be considered very good, as in being faithful to the source, despite the film having been grain-reduced at some point.

Michael seems to remember the theatrical presentation being more grainy.
This does not mean the Blu-Ray should look the same, but that is what he said and the prints were definitely produced after the DI stage if there was one.
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post #22 of 30
8/21/08 at 12:33pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Not in the case that I mentioned.
May I ask what film it was?

Quote:
Michael seems to remember the theatrical presentation being more grainy.
This does not mean the Blu-Ray should look the same, but that is what he said and the prints were definitely produced after the DI stage if there was one.
Well, I think the Blu-ray would differ from the theatrical presentation (unless it was digital cinema) since the smartest way would be for the HD master to be derived directly from the DI. Off the top of my head I can only think of one digital film where the DVD was from a transfer of the analogue print.
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post #23 of 30
8/21/08 at 1:03pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Michael seems to remember the theatrical presentation being more grainy.
My comments really have to be treated as provisional until I've watched the whole film on Blu-ray. I remember it being a "gritty" movie, but that's not necessarily the same thing.

M.
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post #24 of 30
8/22/08 at 3:19am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
May I ask what film it was?
Sorry, but I am not at liberty to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
Well, I think the Blu-ray would differ from the theatrical presentation (unless it was digital cinema) since the smartest way would be for the HD master to be derived directly from the DI.

I cannot really think of too many good AND practicable reasons why one would not use the DI as a source element for the Blu-Ray, so no argument there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Z.
Off the top of my head I can only think of one digital film where the DVD was from a transfer of the analogue print.

Which one was that ?
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post #25 of 30
8/22/08 at 5:37am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
Which one was that ?
It was a Japanese anime called Blood: The Last Vampire. Certain editions came with two discs, one from the digital files and the other from a telecine of the printed film.
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post #26 of 30
8/26/08 at 6:56am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Having now watched the entire film on Blu-ray from start to finish, I want to expand on my earlier observations.

This strikes me as a beautiful and accurate rendition of the film. Since I don't have an answer print to put side by side with the Blu-ray, I have to apply the only other test I have, which is that when I finished watching the movie on disc, I had the same sensation as when I saw it on film: I felt like I needed to spit out the dust in my mouth.

This film has such a strong sense of locale that any loss of detail would be a crime, and it all seems to be there: the dust, the sand, the flies, the muck, and also the majestic landscapes that are simultaneously gorgeous and terrifying.

I think my initial impression of a "cleaner" image has to be chalked up to the digital experience. I just wasn't getting the extra layer of analog "noise" that film projection invariably adds to the experience. If there's been any DNR applied to this master, it's been done very lightly and certainly didn't interfere with my viewing experience.

With stellar performances by Ray Winstone, Emily Watson, Guy Pearce, Danny Huston and an appropriately over-the-top John Hurt, The Proposition is, IMO, the most original and memorable Western since Unforgiven. It never got a wide release, and this Blu-ray, with its very reasonable price, is an excellent opportunity for more people to see it in a form virtually identical to its theatrical presentation.

M.
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post #27 of 30
8/26/08 at 7:15am

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

I also had the chance to watch the film through, and it only reinforced my impressions from checking the disc on arrival. This is one great transfer with a mad price! Hopefully the low retail will tempt folk to give this film a go.
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post #28 of 30
8/30/08 at 7:52pm

Hooray $10 Blu-ray!

Just what the title says:
Amazon.com: The Proposition [Blu-ray]: Guy Pearce, Danny Houston, John Hillcoat: Movies & TV
A review:
Blu-ray Review: The Proposition | High-Def Digest

All so saw the "Star Troopers" BD at Fry for under twenty.
Good news for HDM!
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post #29 of 30
8/30/08 at 8:19pm

Re: Hooray $10 Blu-ray!

this is very tempting i didn't get a chance to see this yet and it seems to get great reviews.
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post #30 of 30
8/30/08 at 8:31pm

Re: Any word on 'The Proposition', so far as PQ/AQ?

Quote:
Ed the info is appreciated but a better thread title would also be appreciated.
Even better would be the existing thread on The Proposition Blu-ray, which contains the same info as well as specific comments on the disc, and with which this thread has now been merged.

M.
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