Lost: Season 5 - Page 4

Re: Lost: Season 5

More likely, Desmond has/is a Constant, which is why he is "exempt" from the paradox rules that Faraday mentioned. (Desmond also heard Sawyer banging on the door; if Sawyer had persisted, Desmond would have answered eventually.) Desmond can therefore interact in "classic" time travel story mode, to make stuff happen.

I don't see much of an explanation why Desmond would suddenly "remember" at that particular moment. Faraday talked to him hours after the island first moved (again) and their timelines split, but when he wakes up with Penny, it's three years later. If they were actually "simultaneous" on separate timelines, I could see how this "new memory" would force itself to the surface while he was sleeping. But what happened is just much easier to follow for the viewing audience.

Re: Lost: Season 5

No, it never crossed my mind that there was a connection between the two of them.

Well, Faraday said that Desmond was an exception to the rules because of his consciousness bouncing around in time and actually making some changes. I think Desmond didn't recognize him because in his personal conscious timeline he hadn't yet met him. The meeting on the island finally caught up to Desmond just when we saw it.

It will be interesting to see how returning the Oceanic 6 to the island stops our characters from bouncing around in island time. Frogurt's end had the typical lost ironic touch as with Artz. I don't think we are supposed to really know just who it was that was attacking the camp with flaming arrows, but it was great to see Locke show up at just the right time to save Juliet's hand. Those were quite nasty people. We seem to have lost a few more "minor" characters.

I did a double-take when Ana Lucia showed up, but then remembered about Hurley seeing dead people. Apparently they also give him good advice. This is something else we'll need to see explained.

As far as how many episodes the 70 hours are, take a look at upcoming 5 episode titles and guess. I'll put those titles in spoilers just to be safe Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show) Based on these titles I am guessing that the 70 hours won't be done until the 5th episode, but you never know.

Ben has quite a network of people he's working with. I also thought that the woman at the end was going to end up being Faraday's mother in Oxford and was quite surprised to see she was working with Ben.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Can someone remind me who the woman was at the end of the episode? She did not ring a bell with me.

Re: Lost: Season 5

It's Ms. Hawking whom Desmond met when he time traveled after the hatch blew up. She told him how the universe has a way of course correcting things so what has to happen happens.

Re: Lost: Season 5

For more info, see here: Ms. Hawking - Lostpedia

Re: Lost: Season 5

I know it sounds corny. But, I really hope when this all resolves that Desmond & Penny still are alive and together. Maybe, living on the island with the rest of the cast.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Still have no idea what's going on (mostly) but I am enjoying the ride.


Where have we seen the butcher chick Ben was giving orders to?

Re: Lost: Season 5

To the best of my knowledge, we haven't seen her before.

Re: Lost: Season 5

AFAIK, we haven't.

There's a theory out there suggesting that she might be Annie... but I don't know if I believe that yet.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Annie

Re: Lost: Season 5

I thought I knew what was going on but after reading this I believe that I have no idea.

I still want to know what happened to all the kids that the Other's took in season 1.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Yeah when are the kids?

I liked how Locke started asking "When am I?"

Re: Lost: Season 5

Why is everyone saying that the woman can't be Faraday's mom? Because she had a different name w/Desmond?

Dream Police

Libby says hi.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Awesome episode!

I wonder if Faraday down in the Orchid at the beginning of the show means that he was there originally, and thus has now 'returned' to the island from the freighter, or if he eventually travels back in time to be there. Perhaps he is the cause of the 'incident'?

I also wondered who the new 'hostiles' on the island are? They seem to be much more vicious than the others. Rouseau's research team maybe? Since they are in the past island right now since there was no camp.

Is the butcher lady the same lady who said she was a 'sheriff' for the others and put Juliet on trial in season 3? The same lady who read Jack's tattoos? She said that she doesn't like to come to the island in that episode, and we've never seen her since. (Edit: Never mind, I just looked it up on IMDB and they are two different actresses.)

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think the main reason is that she appears to not be at Oxford. I thought that she would end up being Faraday's mom also. I think another reason that she isn't is because everyone thinks right away that she is his mom, and well, this is Lost after all, so it's never that simple.

Re: Lost: Season 5

A few things I have questions about:

1) Faraday states that either the Island is moving through time, or they are. From that point forward in the episode, it is made clear that the people are moving through time. However, if that is the case, how did the Island disappear from sight of Jack and the others in the helicopter?

2 thoughts about that are:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

2)Faraday clearly states the rules about time travel in this episode - think of it like a street - you can go forward and in reverse, but you cannot create a new street. He also says that you cannot interact with another section of the timeline. He says this over and over when Sawyer is trying to get Desmond's attention. However, Desmond clearly heard the knocking because when Faraday comes to speak with him, Desmond says he's heard the knocking for 20 minutes. Also, when Locke goes into the past of the Island, he is shot by Ethan - a second time there is interaction with the different sections of the timeline. These interactions would in fact create a "new street" as a splintered branch of the timeline would have to be created to accommodate the alterations.

So the question is, is Faraday wrong or lying about the rules? Or am I just missing something? After all, though I am a fan of the subject, I do not hold a degree in Quantum Physics.

Cheers,

Jason

Re: Lost: Season 5

Have we? 'cause I don't recall any such instance. Which doesn't mean it didn't happen... but I sure don't remember any.

Because it was clearly shown as such. Now, as I said, it could be more than that. Dream and vision are not mutually exclusive (although, see above).

The dream part of that sequence is indisputable. She saw that scene while sleeping ==> DREAM.

Now was the dream induced by the Island?

I say no, because the dream was merely a manifestation of Kate's conscience, i.e., keep the kid safe, and to NOT return him to danger. In the absence of anything extraordinary (in the litteral sense), there is no need to make that scene into anything other than what it appears to be: a dream.

It's the simplest, most rational, most elegant explanation: It does not contradict the fact that the Island wants them back.

Sometimes, even on LOST, a dream is just that, a dream...

That's my story and I am sticking to it until inevitably proven wrong.

--
H

Re: Lost: Season 5

You can't interact with different sections of the timeline if they aren't part of your timeline. Locke's getting shot and (later in his personal timeline but earlier in Richard Alpert's timeline) telling Richard Alpert about it has always happened. Sawyer hadn't previously met Desmond so he couldn't meet at the hatch exit.

Since Desmond is Faraday's "constant" and Desmond's consciousness has done some traveling in time, he is an exception.

Regarding where the island is "now" - I am thinking that it isn't quite "anywhere" yet. Ms. Hawking somehow knows how to track the island or at least figure out when it will reappear. I am thinking that the island has traveled forward in time ~3 years (how else are the Oceanic 6 going to meet up with it?) and in their personal timelines our survivors are being buffeted back and forth in the island's timestream. It is only if the Oceanic 6 can be at the right place in 70 hours will things sync up again. We'll see...

Re: Lost: Season 5

Faraday, when invoking the "street" anology, doesn't seem to mean that you literally cannot affect the timeline in *any way,* rather, you cannot change the timeline in any *meaningful* way. Simply put, you can do some things while dislodged in time, for example, you can eat that papaya that perhaps Sun was going to eat (so she eats a different papaya), or you can pick up the ping pong paddle and place it on the ground (so Hurley has to pick it up off the ground, instead of the table). However, you cannot meaningfully interact with another time period, where meaningful is meant to read change the major events in any way.

This has been a theme of the show: that the universe has a course-correction system, and that try as you might, you are ultimately unable to change the timeline.

However, that all being said, there appears to be a few individuals who are excluded from this rule. Desmond is definately one, of course. However, could Locke be, as well? Are the Others (does this perhaps explain the timelessness Richard seems to have? An immunity to time, but not space?)

Perhaps this is why Locke, as a child, was given "the test" by Richard. Those items might be from this season's "lost in time" arc, and the test is to see if John's consciousness is able to transcend space/time, enabling him to "sense" events from his future (note, this is not the same as literally seeing the future).

One last thing: perhaps the mysterious "voices" that have been present since season one are echoes of those who are time-shifted (shades of a Star Trek episode here - which wouldn't be the first time [no pun intended]).

cheers!

Re: Lost: Season 5

Yeah, the whole "you can't change things in the timeline" bit, we've already seen in season 3 with Desmond trying to repeatedly save Charlie. You can interact with the timeline all you want, but ultimately what needs to happen is going to happen.

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think the island moves physically (the scene with Ms. Hawking at the map seems to confirm this, with multiple Xs on it all over the Pacific Ocean), while the Losties move temporally as well.

As to why this is all happening, I have no clue.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Exactly. There are may different ways you can swerve down the "street", but ulitmately you're still going to the same destination. Even though Desmond could hear Sawyer's knocking it was ironically Faraday's insistance that you cannot change the past that convinced Sawyer to stop and kept time on course.

I'm starting to theorize that due to the island moving through time, the island itself needs to have constants to keep it from catastrophically destroying itself. This is why the Oceanic six must return in 2007 and the island was preventing Michael from killing himself. It's probably too simple and I'm usually terrible about predicting these things.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Great stuff guys. Thanks for the input.

Cheers,

Jason

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think that was my favorite line of the episode.

Re: Lost: Season 5

When the flaming arrows starting raining down, I thought maybe we were back in the era of the Black Rock, since that weaponry would be more appropriate to that timeframe. But since I don't believe there was another shift between the arrow attack and when Sawyer and Juliette ran into the nasty Dharmans, I guess that's wrong.

Re: Lost: Season 5

At the beginning of the episode, Dr. Chang/Candle/Halliwax/Wickmund was shooting the orientation film for The Arrow and said that they plan defensive startegies against the hostiles there. Admittedly, you'd hope the Dharma Initiative could think of something beyond just using the name of the station as their entire defense plan.

Re: Lost: Season 5

You're right, I'd forgotten about that. I was hoping to see some pirates, I guess....

Re: Lost: Season 5

That reminds me, was the compass Alpert gave Locke in this episode one of the items from the test when he was a kid?

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think so.

Re: Lost: Season 5

I really enjoy the show (except for the commercial breaks every 5 minutes). But, man this show makes my head hurt.