Lost: Season 5 - Page 6

Re: Lost: Season 5

I just took that to be a throwaway bit of dialogue - I don't think I have had a proper nosebleed since childhood, either - but you might be right.

It's a really nice theory and it explains a few things (like why Charlotte said she was born on the island, for example) but I don't think it's right. Faraday wasn't surprised by the mention of time-travel, and we know for a fact that his mother is alive and well in the present... so either she time-travelled as well, or she made it off the island before the purge and is now a very, very old woman. Also, if you have watched this it should become obvious that past-Daniel is originally from 2004.

What you say makes sense, but you must remember that Daniel didn't want to go back in time. He stressed to Charlotte that it was important they leave before the Orchid was operated. Personally I think Faraday's notebook is the key to this. I think the island will keep jumping about in the past, eventually landing back in the heyday of the Dharma Initiative. Whatever Daniel learns about the Orchid station, he will write down in a notebook. This book makes its way off the island somehow, and finds its way back to the original Daniel (the one teaching at Oxford University) sometime before he visits the island. This might explain why he is so eager to study space-time: because he has the foundations of the theory, even if he doesn't fully understand it yet.

That's quite possible - although I honestly don't think the writing team knew what they were doing back in season one! I think by season two they begun to work things out but I'm pretty certain time-travel didn't enter their minds until season three. That's cool though, I never expected a thoroughly plotted story arc. As long as they make it all fit together somehow (probably with a little force here and there!) I'll be a happy viewer.

Re: Lost: Season 5

One thing I thought of, and I hope it hasn't been mentioned yet.

The plane they found at the bottom of the ocean, with all the passengers.
Where they are saying that someone staged the plane crash.

Could it possibly be a time travel thing instead?

I know they are saying you can't change things, but what if it's some sort of time travel thing? and it's not a staged thing.

Re: Lost: Season 5

cool thought, but there's the whole issue of the pilot without the ring (although i guess that could be explained away)

Re: Lost: Season 5

Ok, I've seen a couple of posts asking why the island is skipping around... this is my explanation of it....

The island is "shuddering" through time, "skipping like a record" because the "rules" have been broken... THE 6 LEFT THE ISLAND. The rules are fast and firm, as the doctor told us down in the Orchid when it was being built... "there are rules!". The island was moved in time and space but there were 6 people that should have been moving with the island through time and space. They aren't so the island is going to continue "skipping", shuddering, screwing up, until everyone who LEFT the island comes BACK to the island and repairs this anomaly. That's why even Locke... though he's dead in the normal world space MUST come back to the island. Once everyone gets back to the island where they are supposed to be, the island will stop it's shuddering and settle down. Until they come back everyone on the island is in mortal danger, skipping through time and space like that. Others may begin exhibiting the same issues Desmond and Charlette had/have to deal with (headaches, nose bleeds, internal brain explosion, etc). Sidenote: Charlotte maybe starting first because she was born there??

This is why the Oceanic 6 were not supposed to leave the island. This is why the Oceanic 6 must return to the island. As others have stated, the timeline needs to be self-corrected, and it will only be corrected when those who left come back. It is imperative. It is not just a feeling that Jack has, that he has to go back because bad things are happening... it may be to him, he may not realize it... but in the grander scheme he/they MUST go back. If they don't "God help us all" (as Ms. Hawking noted at the end of the episode).

Re: Lost: Season 5

Bob has indeed answered "why is the island moving through time?" effectively. Well summed!

Re: Lost: Season 5

I'm fairly certain that Jacob himself exists--if not, whose eye appeared to both Locke and Hurley, who was sitting in the chair in the cabin and who whispered "help me" to Locke?

I think it's been insinuated by the producers, if not confirmed outright, that some of the Island visions--Kate's horse, Yemi, and my guess Christian--are actually manifestations of the smoke monster. Either way, it's implied that the monster/Cerberus has the ability to possess dead bodies (both Christian and Yemi's bodies disappeared before reappearing to Jack and Eko, respectively) so my theory is that Locke was talking to the smoke monster in that scene you mentioned.

Re: Lost: Season 5

that's why lock will be 'resurrected' as the first 2 parter episode implies when jack asked why ben still cared about locke's corpse.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Yeah, except that the whole time jumping thing wouldn't be happening to the island or the people on the island at all had Ben not turned the underground wheel thing. Obviously, Michael and Walt were able to leave without dire consequences to the people on the island or the island itself. What would the result have been if the 6 who left had decided to stay instead? Would the island still be jumping through time or would it have only moved to a single specific alternate location and/or time? Or is the time jumping due to the combination of Ben turning the wheel and the 6 who left the island?

Re: Lost: Season 5

Hmmm, I'm inclined to believe that it's only time jumping due to the combined effects of Ben turning the frozen donkey wheel and the Oceanic 6 leaving. Ben clearly didn't want the island to be hopping around forever, putting the outside world at risk. However, I doubt he knew what would happen if they left before he turned the wheel. Locke had an inkling, though. On a side note, I am loving the writers' fetish for opening important episodes on old record players!

Re: Lost: Season 5

"What would the result have been if the 6 who left had decided to stay instead? Would the island still be jumping through time or would it have only moved to a single specific alternate location and/or time?"


Don't forget... Ben thought they (the Oceanic6-to-be) were all dead. He killed the mercenary dude thereby killing everyone on the freighter... he had thought anyone who had left the island were on the freighter. We know they weren't, because they left again with seconds/minutes, but Ben did not know that.

As to Michael, Ben also knew that he was on the freighter. As for Walt, Ben would have probably know that he was out in the "real" world, but remember, Ben also knew that Walt was "special", so maybe Walt is kind of like Desmond somehow?

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think the point about Michael is that he did nothing to change his destiny. He was meant to leave the island with Walt when he did - it enabled him to delay Widmore's men from reaching the island, and delay the bomb on the freighter thus giving the Oceanic 6 precious extra seconds in which to escape. When he died on the freighter he was fulfilling his destiny - in other words I don't think he would have been required to return to the island in order to stop whatever happens in 70 hours. A deeper explanation may be that Michael originally had a different destiny (perhaps he was supposed to die when he smashed his car into the container on the dock) but that changed the moment Desmond turned the fail-safe key and made the island visible to Widmore. Funnily enough, this brings us back to Locke and his decision to let the timer count down to zero. I wonder if Locke's poor judgement is ultimately responsible for everything that is wrong with the timeline? The larger point of this theory is that, if the island required Michael to keep the Oceanic 6 alive because of Locke's screwup, why didn't it take greater measures to ensure they never left in the first place?

Re: Lost: Season 5

Christian/the island did appear to Michael and say "You can go now" just before the freighter blew up.

Re: Lost: Season 5

we don't know if the Island is hopping around. it may have jumped from 2004 when Ben turned the Donkey Wheel, to 2008, where "70 hrs from now" will be the first time it's re-appeared.
of course, it begs the question of where and when the Richard/Locke/compass scene took place.
also, how did Locke get off the Island? i still hate the idea of dual existences (meaning two Locke's on earth due to the time travelling) but if the "time hoppers" were confined to the Island it is less lame. so if Locke left the Island at the wrong time, he would theoretically be able to meet himself.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at: Michael was meant to die on the freighter, not return to the island with the Oceanic 6. BobV mentioned that Ben knew Michael would surely die on the freighter - the point I'm making is that this information is pretty much irrelevant. Michael was going to die either way. His destiny was death. But due to course-correction, destiny kept him alive just long enough to redeem himself. Had his destiny been different and he'd survived the freighter, he wouldn't then have been required to return to the island with the Oceanic 6. Why? Because his original timeline took him off the island, whereas the others were not supposed to leave in the first place. The island wants them back, and I'm assuming it has a really good reason that has nothing to do with Michael.

Re: Lost: Season 5

ok so now we know widmore
was certainly there before.

Re: Lost: Season 5

So now it seems that Hawking is actually Daniel's mother, if she is in LA.

A little bit of a step down in quality from last week's episode, but that was pretty much to be expected after the great premiere.

Re: Lost: Season 5

It was nice nod to Charlie that Desmond named his son after him.

I guess they answered Ana Lucia's question (from The Other 48 Days in S2) about why The Others had a U.S. Army knife.

I assume Rose, Bernard and some other random extras are OK.

According to the enhanced episode, Ms. Hawkings' first name is Eloise. That's also the name of the rat that Faraday ran through a maze last season.

Re: Lost: Season 5

i'm a little unclear on the whole Faraday's mom thing. first, the coma lady was in Faraday's picture frame. the coma lady's 'sister' introduced her as Faraday's mom even though it's clear she was about the same age as Faraday himself. what was that about?

Re: Lost: Season 5

My guess is the coma lady was Faraday's assistant or more at Oxford. Something with his experiments messed her up causing her to apparently time travel, and shortly after he left to go on the ship. The janitor or whatever mentioned something about 'the girl'.

Also, I wonder if that young Other is supposed to be a younger Charlotte somehow?

Re: Lost: Season 5

what young other?
Ellie the blond gun girl/

Re: Lost: Season 5

she never said that was faraday's mother.
just "my sister"

Re: Lost: Season 5

Yeah, her. I don't know why I thought that, but she had a slight accent and similarly curly hair (though I realize she wasn't even a redhead).

Re: Lost: Season 5

This may just be one of the best television shows in history!

I absolutely LOVE how seemingly random elements from earlier seasons are all tying together now.

Also, I think we are beginning to understand how and why people like Christian, Charlie, Boone, Ecko's brother, etc. randomly appear and seem to be very much "alive."

Great stuff!

Re: Lost: Season 5

thanks. just rewatched the scene. the coma girl is "theresa spencer". guess he was Faraday's gf at the time. pretty tragic how he experimented on her...

Re: Lost: Season 5

Ok, so let me get this straight. The Island jumps back to the late 50's where John finds Richard who doesn't know him yet, John gives Richard the compass and tells him that he is their leader, Richard tells him the leaders are groomed at young age. Richard visits John as a child and presents him with a few items, including the compass and asks him to pick which item is his. John chooses the knife, which was wrong. It's seems to be clear that if John chose the compass, he would have been recruited as a future leader. But, why would Richard have expected that John might chose the compass as a child?

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think he was supposed to choose more than just the compass.

Re: Lost: Season 5

Ellie gun girl is more likely to be a young mommy faraday.

Re: Lost: Season 5

I got the impression that Richard wasn't really sure what to expect the times that he visited Locke. Surprisingly, it was Locke himself that told Richard to go see Locke as a child.

Re: Lost: Season 5

I think we're supposed to think that Ellie (gun girl) = Eloise Hawking = Daniel Faraday's mother. (Perhaps she remarried, or took back her maiden name). Considering her age in 2008, it makes sense. It also explains why Daniel was staring at her (which unnerved her) while they marched to Jughead.

Richard was the appointed leader of the others in the 1950s. His "agelessness" also suggests an awareness of multiple time periods, or at the very least an intuitive awareness - a certain "timelessness". If Locke is truly to be the "leader" of the Others, then even as a boy he should have an intuitive awareness of the compass he gave Richard, right?

Or at least - that's what Richard hopes when he visits Locke a few years later (in the 1960s, when Locke is a child). When young Locke picks the knife instead of the compass, we finally begin to understand Richard's anger and frustration. Why would Jacob have sent this "special" man to him, when he apparently has no special abilities or any awareness of the compass?

This is a great show, the best drama on Network TV, but I do dislike time travel plots because conversation about time travel plots (esp. on the internet) always produces a ton of ridiculously overcomplicated theories. Don't get me wrong: it's fun to read and talk about that stuff, but all the circular/paradoxical theories begins to overshadow some of the more interesting plot points and character interactions.

In the case of Lost, the truth has usually turned out to be slightly less complicated than the bulk of theories I've read on message boards over the years.

Re: Lost: Season 5

That makes so much more sense than my idea.